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07-05-2012, 10:23 PM
  #126
nexttothemoon
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I can't even think of a good comparable for Gagner.

Who else is a fairly one-dimensional, smallish, fairly non-physical, mediocre defensively, mediocre faceoff man and is a #2 centre on a crappy team with no better options?

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07-05-2012, 10:23 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Except when you look at offensive production, where he's definitely a 2nd line C.
Scoring 40 points doesn't all of a sudden mean you're a second line centerman.

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07-05-2012, 10:27 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Timo View Post
Gagner is worth 3.5 or so.

Bring on the flame.
Yep, he's worth as much as the top six outside of Hemsky...right. Sign him for the one year and send him packing...at best. Rexall has enough Zambonis to clean the ice.

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07-05-2012, 10:27 PM
  #129
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I trust the media over the posters when they say Gagner is nothing more than a 3rd line centerman on a contending team.

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07-05-2012, 10:39 PM
  #130
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What he's worth and what he'll get in arbitration is going to be two very different amounts.

The Oilers certainly needed him because they don't have a better option but his stats are inflated due to that fact as well. When you consider all the other facets of his game... not so pretty.

I can see a scenario where he gets awarded a huge contract and then becomes essentially unmoveable because no team would see him actually being worth that much. Definitely a situation where the Oilers may well use their option to walk away within 48 hours of the decision (if it gets that far).

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07-05-2012, 10:39 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
I trust the media over the posters when they say Gagner is nothing more than a 3rd line centerman on a contending team.
How about you think for yourself instead of listening to clueless media or biased posters?

Last season Gagner had 47 points which ranked him 39th in the league in centres. He had the BEST +/- on the team at +5. He took 36 PIM and his FO% was 47.6%.

Other than the slightly disappointing FO%, which of his stats (listed or not listed) tell you he's not a 2nd line centre?

To discard a 23 year old player (23!) because he's not a star centre is foolish, short-sighted and very bad asset management. He gets better every year, works hard and still has a ton of potential.

I suggest everyone do their own thinking rather than relying on other people to tell you what to think. Including me.

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07-05-2012, 10:39 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Puritania View Post
If the arbitrator is anything like HF, Gagner will be paying the Oil to play.
hahaha

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07-05-2012, 10:42 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by GrinningBuddha View Post
How about you think for yourself instead of listening to clueless media or biased posters?

Last season Gagner had 47 points which ranked him 39th in the league in centres. He had the BEST +/- on the team at +5. He took 36 PIM and his FO% was 47.6%.

Other than the slightly disappointing FO%, which of his stats (listed or not listed) tell you he's not a 2nd line centre?

To discard a 23 year old player (23!) because he's not a star centre is foolish, short-sighted and very bad asset management. He gets better every year, works hard and still has a ton of potential.

I suggest everyone do their own thinking rather than relying on other people to tell you what to think. Including me.
Okay...did my own thinking...Gagner is a second line centre only in Edmonton...

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07-05-2012, 10:42 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrinningBuddha View Post
How about you think for yourself instead of listening to clueless media or biased posters?

Last season Gagner had 47 points which ranked him 39th in the league in centres. He had the BEST +/- on the team at +5. He took 36 PIM and his FO% was 47.6%.

Other than the slightly disappointing FO%, which of his stats (listed or not listed) tell you he's not a 2nd line centre?

To discard a 23 year old player (23!) because he's not a star centre is foolish, short-sighted and very bad asset management. He gets better every year, works hard and still has a ton of potential.

I suggest everyone do their own thinking rather than relying on other people to tell you what to think. Including me.
sadly I don't know how many times people have to keep making this point before it actually sinks in.

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07-05-2012, 10:42 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrinningBuddha View Post
How about you think for yourself instead of listening to clueless media or biased posters?

Last season Gagner had 47 points which ranked him 39th in the league in centres. He had the BEST +/- on the team at +5. He took 36 PIM and his FO% was 47.6%.

Other than the slightly disappointing FO%, which of his stats (listed or not listed) tell you he's not a 2nd line centre?

To discard a 23 year old player (23!) because he's not a star centre is foolish, short-sighted and very bad asset management. He gets better every year, works hard and still has a ton of potential.

I suggest everyone do their own thinking rather than relying on other people to tell you what to think. Including me.

I still think he needs to do more to be considered a 2nd line centerman.

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07-05-2012, 10:48 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
I still think he needs to do more to be considered a 2nd line centerman.
Ok, what did you have in mind? Give us some hard numbers so we can compare to how other teams' 2Cs did last year.

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07-05-2012, 10:49 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
I still think he needs to do more to be considered a 2nd line centerman.
Lecavalier and Kesler had 2 more points than him last year. Are they 2nd line C?

He also outscored Roy and M Richards.

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07-05-2012, 10:52 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
I can't even think of a good comparable for Gagner.

Who else is a fairly one-dimensional, smallish, fairly non-physical, mediocre defensively, mediocre faceoff man and is a #2 centre on a crappy team with no better options?
He does have solid playmaking and offensive abilities not too mention a good compete level in his defense. His great attitude, compete level and draft pedigree because of his junior offensive prowess and father have always been the main things that attracted me to him. His Dad is a decent comparable to be quite honest.

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07-05-2012, 10:58 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
Sam Gagner is nothing more than a 3rd line centerman.
He's obviously peaked at 22

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07-05-2012, 10:58 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
I can't even think of a good comparable for Gagner.

Who else is a fairly one-dimensional, smallish, fairly non-physical, mediocre defensively, mediocre faceoff man and is a #2 centre on a crappy team with no better options?
Sam Gagner = Mike Comrie.

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07-05-2012, 11:00 PM
  #141
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How much PK time did he have per game?
How many hits did he have per game?
How many blocked shots did he have per game?
A key job as a centre is faceoffs... he was mediocre in that department as well... up slightly from downright awful in previous years.

Compare Gagner to players like Brian Boyle and Martin Hanzal who scored less points than Gagner did last year but are MUCH more complete players.

Gagner is just too one-dimensional and too mediocre in too many areas. Put him on the 3rd line without good offensive linemates and he might as well be in the pressbox because he doesn't bring anything else to the ice.

Big heart... tries hard... decent hands (when put with other decent players)... but just not an elite player that needs to be commanding a $4-$5 million salary even though that's what will likely be awarded to him.

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07-05-2012, 11:00 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Hope4theFuture View Post
He's obviously peaked at 22
Gagner is the best second line centre on the Oilers...I would hope the Oilers would be able to find someone who is a solid second line centre comparable to the rest of the league.

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07-05-2012, 11:02 PM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
How much PK time did he have per game?
How many hits did he have per game?
How many blocked shots did he have per game?
A key job as a centre is faceoffs... he was mediocre in that department as well... up slightly from downright awful in previous years.

Compare Gagner to players like Brian Boyle and Martin Hanzal who scored less points than Gagner did last year but are MUCH more complete players.

Gagner is just too one-dimensional and too mediocre in too many areas. Put him on the 3rd line without good offensive linemates and he might as well be in the pressbox because he doesn't bring anything else to the ice.

Big heart... tries hard... decent hands (when put with other decent players)... but just not an elite player that needs to be commanding a $4-$5 million salary even though that's what will likely be awarded to him.
yet he managed a +5 on the 2nd worst team in the NHL.

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07-05-2012, 11:04 PM
  #144
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What a bunch of bs in this thread. Comments like he'll never get 50pts and never get 20 goals, not a second line center, terrible defensively etc.

He's had seasons of 49 and last year 47pts (75games), He had 18 goals already as a 22 year old(yet several people would rather have Kyle Turdis.)

Somehow he was +5 on a 29th placed team. Highest +/- on the entire club. Again played 75 games on an injury riddled club, has averaged 74 GP on an injury riddled club, is immediately serviceable and can fill in any line roll again on an injury riddled team, kept the offense going when this club again had critical injuries last year.

Gagner, keeps on ticking, keeps on producing, will only get better, so lets get rid of him..

People need to think long and hard that we have a lot of talented wingers on this club and only 1C above Gagner that would fit in on an offensive club. Get rid of Gagner and theres a good chance we suffer through a year of experimentation with people who are not Centers, or with an idiot like Horcoff playing with talent. Do people REALLY want to see that?

With the offensive depth we got now Gagner would fit in nicely.

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07-05-2012, 11:07 PM
  #145
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People pull that +/- stat out their ***** when it suits them... leaving alone the fact that +/- is essentially a TEAM stat how about highlighting Gagner's +/- in past years:

-21
-1
-8
-17
5

Career total: -42

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07-05-2012, 11:08 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
What a bunch of bs in this thread. Comments like he'll never get 50pts and never get 20 goals, not a second line center, terrible defensively etc.

He's had seasons of 49 and last year 47pts (75games), He had 18 goals as a 22 year old(yet several people would rather have Kyle Turdis.)

Somehow he was +5 on a 29th placed team. Highest +/- on the entire club. Again played 75 games on an injury riddled club, has averaged 74 GP on an injury riddled club, is immediately serviceable and can fill in any line roll again on an injury riddled team, kept the offense going when this club again had critical injuries last year.

Gagner, keeps on ticking, keeps on producing, will only get better, so lets get rid of him..
Not worth more than the kids...even you can't disagree that Gagner disappears for big chunks of the year. Starts the year poorly, puts up a solid middle, and does nothing to finish.

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07-05-2012, 11:08 PM
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
Scoring 40 points doesn't all of a sudden mean you're a second line centerman.
2011/2012 47 points in 75 games, 39th in NHL scoring for centers
2010/2010 42points in 65 games, 50th in NHL scoring for centers
2009/2010 41 points in 68 games, 52nd in NHL scoring for centers
2008/2009 41 points in 76 games, 61st in NHL scoring for centers
2007/2008 49 points in 79 games, 40th in NHL scoring for centers

There's only 60 spots for top 6 centers in the NHL and Gagner has been in the top 60 every year of his career except 08/09 where he missed the mark by one point.

No matter how you slice it Gagner has had the offensive production of a top 6 center ever since he's been in the NHL (while missing games)

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07-05-2012, 11:09 PM
  #148
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My guess is 3 years @ $3.5M cap. Buys 1 year of free agency and would expire at the same time as Yakupov's ELC.

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07-05-2012, 11:10 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
People pull that +/- stat out their ***** when it suits them... leaving alone the fact that +/- is essentially a TEAM stat how about highlighting Gagner's +/- in past years:

-21
-1
-8
-17
5

Career total: -42
Look at the team he played on and look how quick he joined the league. It's to be expected.

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07-05-2012, 11:10 PM
  #150
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Sam is one of the worst puck possession players in the league. To be a 2nd line C you have to be a solid puck possession player

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