HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Free Agent Frenzy Part VI: The Nick Rash edition (Fedotenko signs w/ Philly)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-05-2012, 11:59 PM
  #926
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,084
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
You completely ignored the thrust of my post which centered around value. In a hard cap league you need to maximize the value of ever player. I challenge you to name 10 players in the league (not on ELCs) who are a better value than All-Star defenseman Marc Staal and his 3.975M salary for this year, next year and the year after.
Staals age, and contract status are the only reasons youd not pitch him out the window for a guy like weber....thats the only thing that makes you *think* about it...then you realize that weber is one of the best defenseman in the league in all facets, would solve our point shot problem, is mean, tough, nasty, the perfect role model for Dylan McIlrath, and plays Rangers hockey to a T. only issue is his sure to be ginormous cap hit...but, that CAN be mitigated with a cap circumvention deal like Suter signed...just go even more extreme...give him Kovalchuks contract. ~6mil cap hit or whatever it was.

Inferno is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 12:00 AM
  #927
NY Lito
Blueshirt Pride
 
NY Lito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 935
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
to me, thats exactly how you are coming off as....

I know if i was on the rangers management team and had a chance to get shea weber for staal+, id do it in a heartbeat. Other than being a few years older (almost 27) and not as contract friendly, Weber is as good or vastly better in pretty much every category you can ask for. better shot, meaner, tougher to play against, just as good defensively...the guy is, year in and year out, one of the 3 best defenseman in the NHL bar none. Id deal staal for weber and run away cackling like a maniacal lunatic if we got it done.


So much this.

NY Lito is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 12:00 AM
  #928
JayMan82
Registered User
 
JayMan82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,307
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
Maybe for some of you. But I'm not interested in taking on twice the salary of Staal for a player who I don't think is twice as good overall...AND we're talking about there being more pieces included. Staal gets no love on these boards because he didn't come back from his concussion in his all-star form. The guy was a monster a year ago and was rounding into his old self in the playoffs. Sure, Weber is better. I give you that. But he's not twice the player...and who else would you add to the package in this hypothetical deal? I just don't see it as a good value.
As much as I love Staal, the assessment of cap hit to degree of player scale needs a little adjusting here. It doesn't take 'twice the player' to make that big play when you need it most. It's quite apparent that Shea Weber is an absolute Gamebreaker on both sides of the puck. He's a rare mold in the likes of Chara, Pronger, Rob Blake etc (heck, we tried drafting his type in McIlrath)! I would to the very least entertain the idea (especially factoring the slight doubt that Marc flees at his first sight of free agency). With that said, Staal gave us some CLUTCH performances in the playoffs this year (i.e. 2 BIG GWGs and solid play) that shouldn't be overlooked.

JayMan82 is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 12:01 AM
  #929
broadwayblue
Registered User
 
broadwayblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,689
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
Staals age, and contract status are the only reasons youd not pitch him out the window for a guy like weber....thats the only thing that makes you *think* about it...then you realize that weber is one of the best defenseman in the league in all facets, would solve our point shot problem, is mean, tough, nasty, the perfect role model for Dylan McIlrath, and plays Rangers hockey to a T. only issue is his sure to be ginormous cap hit...but, that CAN be mitigated with a cap circumvention deal like Suter signed...just go even more extreme...give him Kovalchuks contract. ~6mil cap hit or whatever it was.
But hasn't it been suggested that the new CBA will be more restrictive of these circumvention deals? Unless Weber re-ups or is traded and then re-ups before this September that might not be an option going forward.

broadwayblue is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 12:03 AM
  #930
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,084
vCash: 500
the real issue with trading for weber si that he doesnt solve our forward problem. we'd still have scoring issues, though his point shot might help a lot, as would simply not defending as much because of just how fantastic a defenseman he is.

plus hed help bring in some revenue from the WWE fans.

for the record, i love Weber, but my primary target has been Rick Nash. solves a lot more problem than Weber does.

Inferno is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 12:04 AM
  #931
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,084
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
But hasn't it been suggested that the new CBA will be more restrictive of these circumvention deals? Unless Weber re-ups or is traded and then re-ups before this September that might not be an option going forward.
which is why Nashville is going to want to sign him long term, or trade him right now. if they dont they will lose him for nothing, and will get less than if they wait and trade him when you cant sign those cap friendlyh deals. the window is closing on those kinds of cheater deals...lock em up while you can.

Inferno is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 12:04 AM
  #932
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,529
vCash: 500
Not one person is saying trade staal or he's bad etc or he's even available right now. We r simply saying he's available if Weber is that's it. That is no knock that actually shows how good he really is. So can we move on now

Lundsanity30 is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 12:04 AM
  #933
broadwayblue
Registered User
 
broadwayblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,689
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayMan82 View Post
As much as I love Staal, the assessment of cap hit to degree of player scale needs a little adjusting here. It doesn't take 'twice the player' to make that big play when you need it most. It's quite apparent that Shea Weber is an absolute Gamebreaker on both sides of the puck. He's a rare mold in the likes of Chara, Pronger, Rob Blake etc (heck, we tried drafting his type in McIlrath)! I would to the very least entertain the idea (especially factoring the slight doubt that Marc flees at his first sight of free agency). With that said, Staal gave us some CLUTCH performances in the playoffs this year (i.e. 2 BIG GWGs and solid play) that shouldn't be overlooked.
I'll agree with that. But how much adjusting is a little? If we could deal Staal straight up for a 6M Weber I'd be all over it. But at twice the price + other pieces that have yet to be suggested...well that gives me pause.

broadwayblue is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 12:05 AM
  #934
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,529
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
the real issue with trading for weber si that he doesnt solve our forward problem. we'd still have scoring issues, though his point shot might help a lot, as would simply not defending as much because of just how fantastic a defenseman he is.

plus hed help bring in some revenue from the WWE fans.

for the record, i love Weber, but my primary target has been Rick Nash. solves a lot more problem than Weber does.
Yup. Nash is way more of a priority

Lundsanity30 is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 12:05 AM
  #935
broadwayblue
Registered User
 
broadwayblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,689
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Not one person is saying trade staal or he's bad etc or he's even available right now. We r simply saying he's available if Weber is that's it. That is no knock that actually shows how good he really is. So can we move on now
It's 1 in the morning...there's really not much else to discuss. Guess it's time for bed. lol

broadwayblue is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 12:06 AM
  #936
JayMan82
Registered User
 
JayMan82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,307
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
the real issue with trading for weber si that he doesnt solve our forward problem. we'd still have scoring issues, though his point shot might help a lot, as would simply not defending as much because of just how fantastic a defenseman he is.

plus hed help bring in some revenue from the WWE fans.

for the record, i love Weber, but my primary target has been Rick Nash. solves a lot more problem than Weber does.
As I said before, if the price indicated by the rejected draft deal and Carolina/Skinner inquiry is true, by the time we're done with the Nash deal we'll have more holes than prior to the trade.

JayMan82 is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 12:07 AM
  #937
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,529
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
It's 1 in the morning...there's really not much else to discuss. Guess it's time for bed. lol
We could always talk about the Rick Nash never ending saga

Lundsanity30 is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 12:08 AM
  #938
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,529
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayMan82 View Post
As I said before, if the price indicated by the rejected draft deal and Carolina/Skinner inquiry is true, by the time we're done with the Nash deal we'll have more holes than prior to the trade.
Not saying its the reason, but it could be because that's all Carolina has besides staals

Lundsanity30 is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 12:10 AM
  #939
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,529
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayMan82 View Post
As I said before, if the price indicated by the rejected draft deal and Carolina/Skinner inquiry is true, by the time we're done with the Nash deal we'll have more holes than prior to the trade.
The only way we won't have multiple holes, is if we sent stepan the other way. We would have our top 6 guy but than we would need a 2c

Lundsanity30 is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 12:10 AM
  #940
broadwayblue
Registered User
 
broadwayblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,689
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
We could always talk about the Rick Nash never ending saga
I think we've all said our peace on that story. Time for this tale to end already.

broadwayblue is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 12:10 AM
  #941
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,084
vCash: 500
to me, the ideal gameplan this offseason is to trade for nash with sokme combo of Dubi, AA and prospects...sign Semin to a 1 year deal, and go forward as is.


CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Carl Hagelin ($0.875m) / Brad Richards ($6.667m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Alexander Semin ($6.000m) / Derek Stepan ($0.875m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Ryan Callahan ($4.275m) / Brian Boyle ($1.700m) / Chris Kreider ($1.325m)
Taylor Pyatt ($1.550m) / Mike Rupp ($1.500m) / Arron Asham ($1.000m)
Micheal Haley ($0.600m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Dan Girardi ($3.325m)
Ryan McDonagh ($1.300m) / Anton Stralman ($1.945m)
Michael Sauer ($1.250m) / Michael Del Zotto ($1.925m)
Stu Bickel ($0.750m) / Tim Erixon ($1.750m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m)
Martin Biron ($1.300m)
BUYOUTS
Chris Drury ($1.667m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,728,334; BONUSES: $2,100,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $2,471,666

Inferno is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 12:11 AM
  #942
JayMan82
Registered User
 
JayMan82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,307
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
I'll agree with that. But how much adjusting is a little? If we could deal Staal straight up for a 6M Weber I'd be all over it. But at twice the price + other pieces that have yet to be suggested...well that gives me pause.
In regards to future cap dealings, I also understand your point. The fact is, the Rangers organization is a Defenseman development factory, so likely the best route is trading or signing FA forwards while keeping the Defense influx internal...

JayMan82 is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 12:11 AM
  #943
mcsauer2738
Registered User
 
mcsauer2738's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,057
vCash: 500
Staal + hagelin for nash. I have a weird feeling will get it done

mcsauer2738 is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 12:11 AM
  #944
broadwayblue
Registered User
 
broadwayblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,689
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
to me, the ideal gameplan this offseason is to trade for nash with sokme combo of Dubi, AA and prospects...sign Semin to a 1 year deal, and go forward as is.


CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Carl Hagelin ($0.875m) / Brad Richards ($6.667m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Alexander Semin ($6.000m) / Derek Stepan ($0.875m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Ryan Callahan ($4.275m) / Brian Boyle ($1.700m) / Chris Kreider ($1.325m)
Taylor Pyatt ($1.550m) / Mike Rupp ($1.500m) / Arron Asham ($1.000m)
Micheal Haley ($0.600m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Dan Girardi ($3.325m)
Ryan McDonagh ($1.300m) / Anton Stralman ($1.945m)
Michael Sauer ($1.250m) / Michael Del Zotto ($1.925m)
Stu Bickel ($0.750m) / Tim Erixon ($1.750m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m)
Martin Biron ($1.300m)
BUYOUTS
Chris Drury ($1.667m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,728,334; BONUSES: $2,100,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $2,471,666
I'd go to battle with that squad.

broadwayblue is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 12:13 AM
  #945
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Lito View Post
Jesus H.

Let's walk through this, shall we?

1) No one is saying Staal is going to be traded.

2) No one is saying Weber is going to be moved, or the NYR are 100% interested.

3) IF (hypothetical here, bear with me) Shea Weber was to be available, we are saying Staal would not be a deal-breaker in a move to acquire Weber. In other words, a package centered around Staal is fine by us.

Get it?

Please say yes.
First, you're attempt to look cute, it backfired. The Rangers have stated countless times Kreider is untouchable. By Clark, Gorton, and Sather.

Shea Weber is a Restricted Free Agent. He's playing in Nashville for at least the 12-13 season.

After which he will become an UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT.

They will attempt to extend him before the season ends.

Weber was the highest paid defenseman in the league before Suter got his new contract.

Staal earns roughly half of that. And is one of the top shutdown defensemen in the league. And he's cost controlled until the summer of 2015. At which point he will still earn less than Weber and Suter.

At that same time, Stepan, Callahan, Lundqvist, Girardi, Kreider will all need new contracts.

The salary cap going DOWN as soon as the new CBA is agreed upon.

The Rangers have made it abundantly clear Kreider, Stepan, McDonagh are untouchable for Nash. Who is roughly the same age as Weber. Weber is 26. Nash is 27.

Both command roughly the same cap hit. And will continue to.

The Rangers are NOT sacrificing their core for any one player.

They're NOT shipping off cost controlled young, premiere players for guys who earn twice that of their own, when the production is negligible.

Del Zotto put up 8 less points than Weber. As a 21 year old. At a fraction of the cost.

This is not a video game.

This is real life. Where general managers and their staff look for value in a salary capped league.

That's why Prust and Fedotenko were allowed to walk.

And why Pyatt was brought in. Because he earns less then both. And out produced both.

If the Rangers at a later time (next summer) find interest in Weber. They'll wait for him become an Unrestricted Free Agent on July 1st of next summer. They're NOT trading Staal for one season (less if there is a lockout) of Shea Weber.

THAT'S why Staal not getting traded for Weber.


Last edited by JeffMangum: 07-06-2012 at 12:19 AM.
SupersonicMonkey* is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 12:13 AM
  #946
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,529
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
to me, the ideal gameplan this offseason is to trade for nash with sokme combo of Dubi, AA and prospects...sign Semin to a 1 year deal, and go forward as is.


CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Carl Hagelin ($0.875m) / Brad Richards ($6.667m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Alexander Semin ($6.000m) / Derek Stepan ($0.875m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Ryan Callahan ($4.275m) / Brian Boyle ($1.700m) / Chris Kreider ($1.325m)
Taylor Pyatt ($1.550m) / Mike Rupp ($1.500m) / Arron Asham ($1.000m)
Micheal Haley ($0.600m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Dan Girardi ($3.325m)
Ryan McDonagh ($1.300m) / Anton Stralman ($1.945m)
Michael Sauer ($1.250m) / Michael Del Zotto ($1.925m)
Stu Bickel ($0.750m) / Tim Erixon ($1.750m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m)
Martin Biron ($1.300m)
BUYOUTS
Chris Drury ($1.667m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,728,334; BONUSES: $2,100,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $2,471,666
I like it, too bad we won't get Nash for that and have u seen this market? Semin is not taking a 1 year deal

Lundsanity30 is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 12:14 AM
  #947
Blueshirt Believer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,514
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcsauer2738 View Post
Staal + hagelin for nash. I have a weird feeling will get it done
Of Course it would, and it would never happen. Staal is only expendable if your trading for another elite Dman, not a forward.

Blueshirt Believer is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 12:15 AM
  #948
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,084
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayMan82 View Post
As I said before, if the price indicated by the rejected draft deal and Carolina/Skinner inquiry is true, by the time we're done with the Nash deal we'll have more holes than prior to the trade.
says who exactly? does anyone seriously think that Howson is going to get what hes asking for Nash? Can you name the last time a premier offensive player with a giant cap hit fetched anything even remotely close to what Howson is asking for? Who was the last one traded? Heatley maybe? What did he get, not what Howson is asking for...reclamation project, and a good player in Michalek whose really blossomed in Ottawa...20ish goal scorer and a reclamation project...and i think a 2nd for Heater....AA, Dubi, a prospect (Christian Thomas?) and a first is better than that...Michalek blossomed, Dubi isnt far off from blossoming...1 step back, but hes got the ability to be a real good 2nd line player. AA is a borderline 2nd or 3rd liner with lots of upside who plays a 2-way game....CT scored 50odd goals in juniors 2 years ago...fair deal, basically market rate.

Inferno is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 12:16 AM
  #949
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,529
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcsauer2738 View Post
Staal + hagelin for nash. I have a weird feeling will get it done
Staal alone should, but that just creates another whole. Hank and our D is why we were as good as we were last year. U don't trade him for a forward

Lundsanity30 is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 12:17 AM
  #950
broadwayblue
Registered User
 
broadwayblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,689
vCash: 500
oh dear god...Staal for Nash? check please, i'm outta here. good night all.

broadwayblue is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:56 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.