Where in my post or previous posts did I say/imply/deny that Sutter was not a major factor to their success?
You need to put my response in context.
Okay, fair enough. I am not pointing this at you, just trying to make a point about that. Since I quoted you directly, I should have worded it differently.
So, to say it more broadly. I have read so many accolades of Richards and Carter, with the implication that this was the magic, this was the big thing, these two players turned everything around. I got tired of hearing it, as it was overdone. I agree that it was a smart acquisition by Lombardi. Then, somebody had to make it all slurp together.
The team started to believe in themselves once Sutter was brought in.
Rangers have three top-6 holes to fix: 1st line LW, 2nd line LW and 1st line RW until Gabby gets back.
gabby can likely be covered by everyone bumping up a line (although a new solution would have to be found if he looked like being out long term). Dubi, Hags and Kreider can fill the LW slots but it's incredibly risky to rely on a rookie and two guys who in a perfect world are 3rd liners (unless Dubi can rebound very strongly). With that many question marks, the Ranger have to make at least one move for a top 6 winger IMO, going with what they currently have wont be enough.
Last edited by New York RKY: 07-06-2012 at 06:44 AM.
“We are working very hard” was about the limit of the conversation when Howson was reached Thursday. He also added that he is not facing a deadline to make a deal.
NYR (19 - 2 on LTIR - plus 2 resigning RFAs)
Derek Stepan - RFA 2013/2014
Artem Anisimov - RFA 2013/2014
Carl Hagelin - RFA 2013/2014
Chris Kreider - RFA 2014/2015
Marian Gaborik (LTIR until December) - UFA 2014/2015
Ryan Callahan - UFA 2014/2015
Taylor Pyatt - UFA 2014/2015
Brian Boyle - UFA 2014/2015
Mike Rupp - UFA 2014/2015
Arron Asham - UFA 2014/2015
Brandon Dubinsky - UFA 2015/2016
Brad Richards - UFA into the 2020s
Ryan McDonaugh - RFA 2013/2014
Mike Sauer (LTIR indefinitely) - RFA 2013/2014
Stu Bickel - - UFA 2014/2015
Dan Girardi - UFA 2014/2015
Marc Staal - UFA 2015/2016
Henrik Lundqvist - UFA 2014/2015
Martin Biron - UFA 2014/2015
RFAs (2)
Michael del Zotto - Qualified and he will resign to a 2 to 3 year deal between 2,3 to 3 M per annum
Anton Stralman - Qualified - signed for arbitration and will get multiyear (2) deal
UFAs (0)
Ruslan Fedotenko - gone (signed with Philadelphia)
Brandon Prust - gone (signed with Montreal)
John Mitchell - gone (signed with Colorado)
Steve Eminger - most likely gone
Jeff Woywitka - gone (signed with St Louis)
John Scott - gone - signed with Buffalo
CT Whale/ECHL (20)
Chad Kolarik - UFA 2013/2014
Tommy Grant - RFA 2013/2014
Ryan Bourque - RFA 2014/2015
Micheal Haley - UFA 2014/2015
Kris Newbury - UFA 2014/2015
Andrew Yogan - RFA 2015/2016
Marek Hrivik - RFA 2014/2015
Jason Wilson - RFA 2014/2015
Kyle Jean - RFA 2014/2015??
Christian Thomas - RFA 2015/2016
Casey Wellman - qualified
Jason Missiaen - RFA 2014/2015
Scott Stacjer - RFA 2014/2015
Cameron Talbot - qualified
RFAs
Francis Bouchard - let go (a bad return for Kundratek - no?)
Chris Chappell - gone
Andreas Thuresson - left for Sweden and not qualified
Lee Baldwin - gone
Sam Klassen - gone
UFAs ( possibly 1)
Sean Avery - on the catwalk - retires?
Andre Deaveaux - possibly might be resigned for depth/ call up
JAM - gone - signed by Columbus
Randy McNaught - let go
Brendan Bell - probably let go
Chad Johnson - gone - signed with Phoenix
Jr eligible (contract slides and does not count against 50 player limit if he stays in juniors)
JT Miller - RFA 2015/2016
Players signed but Loaned to a European club (2)
Jesper Fast - RFA 2015/2016
Oscar Lindberg - RFA 2015/2016
Players qualified (rights retained) - but playing in Europe
Mats Zuccarello - Was qualified but has signed 2 year deal with KHL team with NHL out clause
Pavel Valentenko - Qualified but signed in Russia to a 2 year deal. Rights retained
Unsigned Draft picks
Steve Fogarty (3rd round - 2011)
Michael St Croix (4th round - 2011)
Shane McColgan (5th round - 2011)
Sam Noreau (5th round - 2011)
Peter Ceresnak (6th round - 2011)
Blue Jackets general manager Scott Howson hoped the first few days of free agency — specifically the signing of free-agent winger Zach Parise — would spur the marketplace toward more serious trade offers for the Columbus winger and team captain.
But Howson has maintained that he won’t trade Nash for less than “market value,” even if the saga drags well into July, even into August, and yes, even into the start of training camp in September.
Parise was signed by the Minnesota Wild on Wednesday, but as of late last night, Howson did not seem any closer to reaching a deal.
How many times can Howson misread the market? February trading deadline. Oh wait until the draft when more teams will be involved. Wait until July 1. Wait until Parise signs. Howson was hoping Parise would sign with Pittsburgh or Philly but Parise ended up in Minnesota. The lockout will be over in November and Nash will still be in Columbus.
Quote:
The general tone from GMs around the NHL is that Howson is asking too high a price for a player he is being forced to trade. The Blue Jackets, who never scored enough goals even with Nash in the lineup, figure to struggle mightily once their franchise player is gone, so they’re hopeful of getting at least one NHL-ready forward in return.
The cap hit is high. The amount of money owed to Nash is high. A team would need to pick up some of the salary if they wanted a better return. That is not allowed in the NHL so the offers will be low. Sather got the Caps to pick up 40% of the Jagr salary and gave them Anson Carter. That's not allowed anymore but Sather won't give Howson his idea of "full" value and take on that contract. VAN has the same issue with Luongo.
I do not think that Howson quite understands what the phrase 'market value' means. Current market for players comparable to Nash, such as Richards, Carter and Staal, would be a roster player, such as Dubinsky, AA or Hagelin, and either Erixon and a 3rd, (similar to Schenn and 3rd, or Couturier and 3rd), or Thomas and a 1st, (the equivalent of Dumoulin and a 1st.). The return for Eric Lindros in 1992 is not market value for Nash. That is the unreasonable expectation of a GM who repeatedly demonstrates his incompetency.
Until Howson is fired this **** will drag on. Incompetency from ownership right on down the line. I think Sather's plan B is Doan. If at the time Doan decides to move on from the desert, Sather moves on from Nash IMO.
Rangers have already been linked to Weber. They want him, if negotiations turn bad and Poile shops him Sather is calling.
Problem is that Weber will command lots of $$$ on his extension. You are probably looking at 8 mill cap hit, if not more. Say we part with Staal+. We'd have Weber and Girardi plus McDonagh/Del Zotto with their extensions. That's a lot of money tied up on the blue line.
If we were middle of the road club defensively and/or needed help on the blue line I'd be all for it. Right now we have 1 of the best and also youngest blue lines in hockey. 4 legit top-4 D-men (not counting Sauer). Spending assets and money on a forward should be priority #1 not upgrading from #2 or #3 ranked D to #1 ranked D.
I do not think that Howson quite understands what the phrase 'market value' means. Current market for players comparable to Nash, such as Richards, Carter and Staal, would be a roster player, such as Dubinsky, AA or Hagelin, and either Erixon and a 3rd, (similar to Schenn and 3rd, or Couturier and 3rd), or Thomas and a 1st, (the equivalent of Dumoulin and a 1st.). The return for Eric Lindros in 1992 is not market value for Nash. That is the unreasonable expectation of a GM who repeatedly demonstrates his incompetency.
Dubinsky had been a 1st line player over 75pct of his career, and that was on a competitive, yearly playoff team.
Jackets fans think he's a third liner on their team....the worst team in hockey.
Yeeeeah, Sure.
Dubinsky can step right into Columbus and be the 22-min a night guy he was for us last year. The 5 or 10 goals and 10 or 15 points Dubi gets less than Nash won't make or break CBJ's season. They still suck, and suck by a mile.
What fixes Columbus will be a slow process. That process starts with replenishing their barren stockpile of forwards.
Miller and Thomas would be 1 and 1a on Columbus' forward prospect depth chart instantly.
All we hear is how CBJ's defense is "set" and they don't need Erixon? The worst defensive team in hockey doesnt need one of the top-10 defense prospects in the game?
Wizniewski is garbage. Johnson can't play in his own end. Tyutin and Nikitin are decent. Moore and Savard are still unproven. Murray???? Look at how Larsson played this year in his own end, and Larsson was more polished after the draft.
If his replacement was Weber? Wow, take off the red, white and blue blinders. That's a no brainer for 99.9% of GM's.. would have a bigger cap hit, but it's not even close if you can afford it.
If his replacement was Weber? Wow, take off the red, white and blue blinders. That's a no brainer for 99.9% of GM's.. would have a bigger cap hit, but it's not even close if you can afford it.
Weber is clearly an upgrade over Staal (no one should claim otherwise) but we are pretty set for now on the blue line. Another top line forward is what we lack.
Random Hfboards Poster: "I don't think Staal is being shopped or traded. Nor do I think Weber is being shopped or traded. But if something down the line changed and Weber was made available and they were interested in Staal, the Rangers have to make that trade."
How SupersonicMonkey read the above quote...
"Staal and Weber are both on the block and they will be traded for each other before December"
The Staal situation was nothing like the Weber situation.
Brandon Sutter does not = Marc Staal.
And Jordan Staal does not = Shea Weber.
The Rangers are not trading Staal for Weber when he can potentially be had as an UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT next summer.
And if "random" poster doesn't want to be made a fool of, then don't post radical trade proposals and proclaim the Rangers would be stupid enough to trade one of their premiere young players for a rental. They won't do it for a guy locked in for many years to address a glaring need in Nash.
They can have him for zero assets as a UFA next summer.
Guys like Weber test the market. Rangers won't get him extended. There will be 29 (not Minnesota after July 4th) teams going after him.
Luckily, Sather, Gorton, and Clark are not as stupid.
Last edited by SupersonicMonkey*: 07-06-2012 at 07:25 AM.
So according to that article Howson is asking Hurricanes for Skinner+? Wow... yeah good luck with that. I can just imagine what he would ask from Rangers then... Kreider, Stepan, McDonaugh and a 1st?
Other than that, I would definitely prefer us to go after Ryan rather than Nash. He's younger, has more potential, has equal stats and comes at a lower cap hit. I'd be willing to part with Stepan in a package deal for Ryan to be honest.
Last edited by New York RKY: 07-06-2012 at 07:56 AM.
Sutter is a 3rd line center. Dumoulin is a #4/#5 D. Some people say Pitt reached for Pouliot at #8. Maatta was a better pick at #8 and they got him with their #1 pick. That was the price for Staal. A roster player,prospect and a draft pick is the price. That was the price for Burns,Richards and Carter. The latter two have big contracts. Smaller hits but longer term. Burns and Staal were 1 year away from group III. Columbus wants multiple assets. NHL forwards. Too much.
If his replacement was Weber? Wow, take off the red, white and blue blinders. That's a no brainer for 99.9% of GM's.. would have a bigger cap hit, but it's not even close if you can afford it.
He's not saying Staal is better. He's looking at cap hits, trade value, team needs... he's being realistic. I've never seen a poster railroaded this badly for being realistic.
Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
NYR still very interested in Rick Nash, but, they're not willing to wait forever. Currently exploring other options as well. Someone blink
As much as I want Ryan on this team it seems like ANA wants Stepan included and they're not budging off that. I just don't see how a deal gets done.
How about;
Flip Dubinsky to St Louis for P Berglund
Then trade Stepan + non roster assets for Ryan
???
Berglund & Ryan >> Dubinsky & Stepan
Bigger, Stronger and More Productive
6,35 M cap hit vs 5 M cap hit. No big cap increase.
St Louis needs to add cap to reach floor
Tough to give up 2 excellent homegrown products - but this is youth for youth. Not some old farts on retirement deals
Upgrade the team if you can...
Not saying it can or will be done, just trying to find an amicable solution as armchair GM
