Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
Not a fan of any teams in the proposals, so this is unbiased.
I think Buffalo has to give up a little bit more for the package to San Jose. I think they need to get more back in the other proposals. In trading away Vanek (much less Adam) you're arguably giving up the best player in each trade (the San Jose deal perhaps being the exception). Centers are plenty in this league, even though top tier ones are not. Scoring from the wings, however, is a premium asset.
I'd love him on the Hawks, but he wouldn't represent an upgrade over any of Hossa, Kane, or Sharp...and I quite frankly wouldn't know whom else to give up for him. He doesn't really fill a need, and would create a hole elsewhere, if not represent a lateral move.
Just my 2 cents...worth about half as much (at most).
In trading away Vanek (much less Adam) you're arguably giving up the best player in each trade (the San Jose deal perhaps being the exception). Centers are plenty in this league, even though top tier ones are not. Scoring from the wings, however, is a premium asset.
You know what's more premium than scoring from the wings? A Selke-calibre defensive forward.
Kesler is but one year removed from Selke+40goals, a season that followed two other Selke-finalist seasons.
I don't think the sabres have any interest in trading Vanek after the Roy for Ott deal. Can't afford to lose any more offense IMO. It would take over payment at this point to get vanek.
I'd do any one of those deals from a Buffalo perspective.
Really...Dubinsky and Stepan for Vanek? If Van goes to NYR, I would want Kreider + Dubi coming back (which Rangers fan probably wouldn't want to do). We have young centers. We don't need more young centers. Beyond Armia, our talent pool at wing is about as thin as thin gets. If we move Vanek, we need a top-level wing talent + coming back. Not another young 2C and a 2/3 tweener.
If Sather is not willing to include Stepan in a deal for Nash, he's not going to do that for Vanek.
Both as good goal scorers, but Nash is the better one in that regards.
Nash is not a better goal scorer. They average VERY close to the same. IIRC Nash averages .85 G/60 min, where Vanek averages .84 or the other way around.....can't remember which, but vanek averages less ice time so I think it is pretty much dead even, considering the small difference. The only true difference between the two is that Nash hits about twice as much. But Nash's contract is worse then Vaneks so IMO that comes close to evening it out too =/
Nash is not a better goal scorer. They average VERY close to the same. IIRC Nash averages .85 G/60 min, where Vanek averages .84 or the other way around.....can't remember which, but vanek averages less ice time so I think it is pretty much dead even, considering the small difference. The only true difference between the two is that Nash hits about twice as much. But Nash's contract is worse then Vaneks so IMO that comes close to evening it out too =/
Their GPG is basically identical, .420 for Vanek, .429 for Nash.
Gotta wonder how Nash would have done on Buff and Vanek on CBJ, considering the level of talent surrounding each.
Nash is not a better goal scorer. They average VERY close to the same. IIRC Nash averages .85 G/60 min, where Vanek averages .84 or the other way around.....can't remember which, but vanek averages less ice time so I think it is pretty much dead even, considering the small difference. The only true difference between the two is that Nash hits about twice as much. But Nash's contract is worse then Vaneks so IMO that comes close to evening it out too =/
Give Nash 2 years of an in his prime Danny Briere or even a Derek Roy and I would love to see those numbers.
Nash's best playmaking center was a past his prime Sergei Fedorov.
Again, it's not a numbers thing with me. I think that Vanek in Nash shoes struggles to crack 30.
Vanek is not a guy that is going to create offence on his own and needs a playmaking center to generate his goals.
That's not a bad thing as you still have to bury your chances and he is a very good player at doing that.
Nash, in my opinion, is very much like Gaborik in the sense that he doesn't need a center to generate goals.
I would take Vanek on the Rangers, we have two solid center for him to play with, but I'm not moving top prospects for him.
Give Nash 2 years of an in his prime Danny Briere or even a Derek Roy and I would love to see those numbers.
Nash's best playmaking center was a past his prime Sergei Fedorov.
Again, it's not a numbers thing with me. I think that Vanek in Nash shoes struggles to crack 30.
Vanek is not a guy that is going to create offence on his own and needs a playmaking center to generate his goals.
That's not a bad thing as you still have to bury your chances and he is a very good player at doing that.
Nash, in my opinion, is very much like Gaborik in the sense that he doesn't need a center to generate goals.
I would take Vanek on the Rangers, we have two solid center for him to play with, but I'm not moving top prospects for him.
If that means no deal, I'm ok with that as well.
Evidence of another HF poster that doesnt know what hes talking about... Vanek actually thrived when he played with centers that were not generating the offense. Vanek is better when he feels he is the one that needs to handle the puck. Theres a reason everytime he and Roy were on a line his play dipped. Vanek played his best away from from.
People that say o Nash never had a center to feed him the puck or a center to gel with have no idea how Lindy has handled the lines in Buffalo. VAnek has never had a center that Lined up with him night in an night out. Lindy likes to move people around more then any other coach.
Vanek and Nash are to close to say either one is better. While Nash was playing with bad centers so was Vanek. Vaneks centers have been, Jochen Hecht... Brad Boyes... Derek Roy... Tim Conolly... Luke Adam... Paul Szczechura... the last 4 years and he rarely was on the same line as Connolly and never really played well with Roy. So feel free to tell me how his centers have been so much better the Nash...
With those centers the last 4 years Vanek has averaged:
34.2 goals per 82 games
Nash has averaged:
35.6 goals per 82 games
Take cap into consideration with Vanek at 7.142 and Nash at 7.8 I would say that both of them are pretty much dead even...
Evidence of another HF poster that doesnt know what hes talking about... Vanek actually thrived when he played with centers that were not generating the offense. Vanek is better when he feels he is the one that needs to handle the puck. Theres a reason everytime he and Roy were on a line his play dipped. Vanek played his best away from from.
People that say o Nash never had a center to feed him the puck or a center to gel with have no idea how Lindy has handled the lines in Buffalo. VAnek has never had a center that Lined up with him night in an night out. Lindy likes to move people around more then any other coach.
Vanek and Nash are to close to say either one is better. While Nash was playing with bad centers so was Vanek. Vaneks centers have been, Jochen Hecht... Brad Boyes... Derek Roy... Tim Conolly... Luke Adam... Paul Szczechura... the last 4 years and he rarely was on the same line as Connolly and never really played well with Roy. So feel free to tell me how his centers have been so much better the Nash...
With those centers the last 4 years Vanek has averaged:
34.2 goals per 82 games
Nash has averaged:
35.6 goals per 82 games
Take cap into consideration with Vanek at 7.142 and Nash at 7.8 I would say that both of them are pretty much dead even...
Point made.
You mention the centers that Vanek has been able to play with the last 4 years and 2 of the guys mentioned are LEAPS AND BOUNDS better playmakers than Nash has been paired with during that same time frame and has produced better numbers.
Actual production during the last 4 years of games played. The difference of 9 games over a 4 years span is marginal at best.
Vanek - 126 goals for an average of 31.5 goals per season
Nash - 135 goals for an average of 33.75
Forget Derek Roy for a second here. Tim Connolly is better than any center that Nash has had the opportunity to play with in the last 6 years.
