What if Weber flat out refuses to sign any type of extension prior to next summer?
Try to explain this to you for the 100th time. The assumption in a Staal+ for Weber trade is that Weber agrees to a contract extension with the Rangers BEFORE THE TRADE IS MADE. Hossa told all teams that he would going to test UFA no matter what. For that reason, his price tag was dropped and the return wasnt as good. The Rangers would never trade Staal for a rental.
Please try to read this part again...
"When we are talking about a trade of Staal for Weber, the assumption is made that Weber has agreed to an extension before the trade was completed." Not a single person here is advocating that we trade Staal for an unsigned Weber, but you can't seem to grasp that for some reason.
I did address that, read my posts. You answered your own question about the CBA ruling being a factor. Weber wants to sign before the new CBA, so he can get a better contract. He doesn't want to wait a year, when he could get a better contract now.
Polie isn't going to trade Weber away for a rental package. Both Weber and Polie will work together to make a deal work for both sides.
You don't know that. You're speculating. You don't know what's driving his decisions. Right now his agent is feeding a story to TSN about how he's coming to terms with Suter leaving... can't believe he left the group in Nashville. I don't know what the angle is, sounds like he's trying to build something in Nashville though. Picking where he goes for the rest of his career might trump the few million he'll lose in the new CBA. What if he signs now and salaries get rolled back again? What's he losing if they restrict the circumvention deals? A year or two at 40 for $1m per? Weber is going to get $7m+ for the next 6 years whether he signs now or after the new CBA.
There will be 30 bidders (Nashville to retain his services) for Weber, with 30 possible destinations. A J. Staal type deal is not going to cut it. It will be a Pronger type return.
That is the first thing you have said that I can agree with. I really have no clue what the type of return there is going to be for Weber. But you are right, it will probably be a ton. Though I would move Staal+ for him, I don't know if that would be the best offer. I could see the Flyers blowing everyone out of the water. All I am saying is that I would definitely trade Staal+ for a signed Weber. Assuming the + isnt something insane(and it may very well be). I just think its silly for people to take the stance, "ITS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN!"
Nash purely creates offense? Then why doesn't he put up 80 points every year? You wanna know why? Because he is a goal scorer. Thats it. He hasnt put up 40 in years. He has a full NMC with a $7.8 cap hit that a lot of teams can't endure. It has been written that Nash doesn't look like he wants to be there at times not really giving a 100%.
The notion of two players outscoring Nash's production is not dumb at all. Getting younger with cheaper cap hits who will produce at least 80 points, filling out your roster when you have nothing in the pipelines and no free agents wanting to sign there is pretty damn worthy of the value of your "star" player. Nash is overrated for what he makes, hands down. He has nice hands and size. When he comes here and scores 50 goals I'll eat crow. He hasnt been surrounded with completely incompetent players yet he gets paid like the elite players in the league. Crosby is elite. He can make no name players or average players better. Stop with this bs that Nash is worth the moon.
Ignorance.
last time i checked scoring goals is creating offense. we lack playmakers and scorers, and arti/dubi are neither of those
Try to explain this to you for the 100th time. The assumption in a Staal+ for Weber trade is that Weber agrees to a contract extension with the Rangers BEFORE THE TRADE IS MADE. Hossa told all teams that he would going to test UFA no matter what. For that reason, his price tag was dropped and the return wasnt as good. The Rangers would never trade Staal for a rental.
Please try to read this part again...
"When we are talking about a trade of Staal for Weber, the assumption is made that Weber has agreed to an extension before the trade was completed." Not a single person here is advocating that we trade Staal for an unsigned Weber, but you can't seem to grasp that for some reason.
You said:
1- he re-signs in Nashville
2- he signs and extension and gets traded
I said those aren't the only two possibilities. You are acting like Weber is in a corner, if he doesn't want Nashville he's going to get a list of contracts to pick from and that's where he'll get traded. He could opt for another scenario, one where he just goes to UFA next summer and picks his new team.
I'm not illiterate, I comprehend that all of you GMs wouldn't trade Staal + unless there was a deal in place. I never implied you guys are trying to acquire Weber without a new deal. I'm just saying he has more than two options, that's what you're not grasping.
No offense, but it is pretty dumb. Lets say, for instance, youre talking about 2 players replicating Nash's production - they're probably doing it in double the ice time.
So, if you want to be fair with that type of equation, you have to take into account that, by adding Nash, you'd also have another 15-20 minutes of ice time per game for someone else to add production.
You don't know that. You're speculating. You don't know what's driving his decisions. Right now his agent is feeding a story to TSN about how he's coming to terms with Suter leaving... can't believe he left the group in Nashville. I don't know what the angle is, sounds like he's trying to build something in Nashville though. Picking where he goes for the rest of his career might trump the few million he'll lose in the new CBA. What if he signs now and salaries get rolled back again? What's he losing if they restrict the circumvention deals? A year or two at 40 for $1m per? Weber is going to get $7m+ for the next 6 years whether he signs now or after the new CBA.
Of Course, we are all speculating.
But I can say he probably would want the best contract now, then waiting a year and taking his chances.
Also, who saids he wouldn't be traded where he wants to go? He has to agree to a contract extension to the team he would be traded to if Polie wants a significant return.
If Weber wants to go to Vancouver, Polie will try to get a deal done with Vancouver. Most likely Weber has a couple destinations that he is interested in.
Last edited by Blueshirt Believer: 07-06-2012 at 12:11 PM.
Again, you are all upgrading a spot that doesn't need an upgrade. Our top 4 are set.
what is our top 4? its staal girardi mcd + ?
its not mdz, bc he cannot be part of a legit top four, better known as top 2 pairings of defensemen bc he is the 3rd left side d. we have a great 3rd pair defenseman and we have 3 other great defensmen for the top 2 pairings, but we do NOT have a complete top 4...
That is the first thing you have said that I can agree with. I really have no clue what the type of return there is going to be for Weber. But you are right, it will probably be a ton. Though I would move Staal+ for him, I don't know if that would be the best offer. I could see the Flyers blowing everyone out of the water. All I am saying is that I would definitely trade Staal+ for a signed Weber. Assuming the + isnt something insane(and it may very well be). I just think its silly for people to take the stance, "ITS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN!"
That's the first thing? That's all I've been saying. There aren't 2 clearly defined and restricted paths for Weber. Weber isn't going to be forced into a sign and trade. If, IF we get involved we'll give Polie two options: a Staal, Stepan, 1st for an unsigned Weber and a Staal, Stepan, Kreider, McIlrath 1st for a signed Weber.
Everyone keeps saying Staal +. That doesn't mean anything. "+" isn't tangible. Start putting names to the deal, I have a feeling many a butthole will pucker at some of the names it'll take. I'd do Stepan + for Malkin until Lundqvist becomes that arithmetic sign.
These trade rumors aren't healthy for the guys within the organization. They got a huge vote of confidence via the inactivity at the deadline. Hearing your name in trade rumors ad nauseum can bother the most professional of professionals.
**** Howson. He had a chance to draft every single Ranger he's asking forn and twice over in some cases.
its not mdz, bc he cannot be part of a legit top four, better known as top 2 pairings of defensemen bc he is the 3rd left side d. we have a great 3rd pair defenseman and we have 3 other great defensmen for the top 2 pairings, but we do NOT have a complete top 4...
Ok, for Defensemen numbering 1-6, we have the first four locked down. Maybe 5. MDZ isn't playing in the true "top 4" position being the 3rd LD. If you want to argue semantics and devolve into that, I'm game. I mean, hey, once Stralman is signed he technically plays on the 2nd pair so yes, we will have our top 4. I wasn't going to get petty like that, but we can waste posts on this if you want.
And I was addressing the swap of Weber for Staal... it doesn't add depth but it adds $4m in salary. Weber doesn't help reduce minutes, hurts when you need to add another D or two and you just lost $4m in cap.
Ok, for Defensemen numbering 1-6, we have the first four locked down. Maybe 5. MDZ isn't playing in the true "top 4" position being the 3rd LD. If you want to argue semantics and devolve into that, I'm game. I mean, hey, once Stralman is signed he technically plays on the 2nd pair so yes, we will have our top 4. I wasn't going to get petty like that, but we can waste posts on this if you want.
stralman is not a top 4 defenseman. he is a 3rd pair guy who played over his head abit and was exposed at times. i love how mdz gets killed for his gaffs in the nj series, but stralman gets a pass. some guys just cannot win with this fanbase.
and yes i will argue semantics bc youre not going to pay 4 defenseman "top 4 d money" when only 3 of those 4 will be playing in your top 2 pairings. to do so is a poor use of cap space. top 4 d men are a chief concern bc in crunch time they are the guys you rely on. im not paying a guy top 4 money who wont be playing in top 4 minutes
speaking of Eberle...it's a serious long shot to potentially acquire him in a trade without giving anything major up, right? he's definitely a player that we could use. right handed shot, scores 30... he's only 22, also. but again, huge long shot, but i'd love this guy. we'd have to give back a scoring wing, too, no?
stralman is not a top 4 defenseman. he is a 3rd pair guy who played over his head abit and was exposed at times. i love how mdz gets killed for his gaffs in the nj series, but stralman gets a pass. some guys just cannot win with this fanbase.
and yes i will argue semantics bc youre not going to pay 4 defenseman "top 4 d money" when only 3 of those 4 will be playing in your top 2 pairings. to do so is a poor use of cap space. top 4 d men are a chief concern bc in crunch time they are the guys you rely on. im not paying a guy top 4 money who wont be playing in top 4 minutes
Where do I say we have to pay a bottom pair guy top 4 money? Where did I kill MDZ? Where did I heap praise on Stralman?
This is unbelievable. I have never implied overpaying defenseman. I'm one of the few guys arguing against bringing in a $7.5m defenseman because I want to allocate that money to finding a defenseman that can eat some minutes, someone Tortorella will trust. You take all of my posts and twist it into paying Stralman $4m a year instead of the $1.5m he'll sign.
I'm getting hit with nitpicking and distortion. Unreal.
speaking of Eberle...it's a serious long shot to potentially acquire him in a trade without giving anything major up, right? he's definitely a player that we could use. right handed shot, scores 30... he's only 22, also. but again, huge long shot, but i'd love this guy. we'd have to give back a scoring wing, too, no?
speaking of Eberle...it's a serious long shot to potentially acquire him in a trade without giving anything major up, right? he's definitely a player that we could use. right handed shot, scores 30... he's only 22, also. but again, huge long shot, but i'd love this guy. we'd have to give back a scoring wing, too, no?
I'd say you call and ask about Eberle and it would be the same answer as someone asking us about Stepan or Kreider.
speaking of Eberle...it's a serious long shot to potentially acquire him in a trade without giving anything major up, right? he's definitely a player that we could use. right handed shot, scores 30... he's only 22, also. but again, huge long shot, but i'd love this guy. we'd have to give back a scoring wing, too, no?
Dont think Ebs will be traded. He approached god-like status in Edmonton since (1) he was an Oiler fan growing up, (2) he is the underdog Alberta farmer boy type raised in Regina that Oilers fans go nuts over, (3) he set some record for the Canadian World Junior team which originally generated the hype around him and (4) he was 2nd in the WC in points and is still young, controllable and on his ELC. He is a future superstar player in the mould of a more skilled Parise.
no i feel you. kid's gonna be a premiere right winger in this league. i figure the only way he'd be attainable would be to give up a defenseman/top defensive prospect for him. Edmonton DOES have expendable forwards, now, though. *coughPAAJARVIcough*
Matt Taromina signed with the Bolts. Scratch another off the list of future Devils greats.
Yzerman gets free passes from the media because he's a legend and won Gold, but his GM moves have been questionable at best. Carle? Overpaid. Salo? Frail. Pouliot? Stinks.
