You said:
1- he re-signs in Nashville
2- he signs and extension and gets traded
I said those aren't the only two possibilities. You are acting like Weber is in a corner, if he doesn't want Nashville he's going to get a list of contracts to pick from and that's where he'll get traded. He could opt for another scenario, one where he just goes to UFA next summer and picks his new team.
I'm not illiterate, I comprehend that all of you GMs wouldn't trade Staal + unless there was a deal in place. I never implied you guys are trying to acquire Weber without a new deal. I'm just saying he has more than two options, that's what you're not grasping.
Really... I am not aware that Weber could declare that he will not sign an extension and test Free Agency? I can quote several posts where I said exactly that. Here is one example for ya.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadHookUp
What he is trying to say, is that we wouldn't trade Staal for Weber unless Weber agreed to a contract extension. If Weber does get traded the package drastically changes if Weber would agree to an extension. If he tells all teams that he is without a doubt going to test UFA, there is no way the Rangers would trade Staal for him. The price for Weber would go way down.
Weber/Nash can do one of 4 things really.
1.) Resign with Nashville
2.) Get traded to another team with an agreed upon extension
3.) Get traded to another team with no extension and test free agency.
4.) Not get traded, and test UFA(Suter, doubt Nashville allows this to happen again)
Only in condition number two is Staal+ being offered. But you say, "Why trade Staal for a 1 year Weber rental?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchShamrock
A top flight defenseman is not a need of the Rangers. Why would they trade Staal's great contract to bring in Weber for 1 year when he is not a need?
Matt Taromina signed with the Bolts. Scratch another off the list of future Devils greats.
Yzerman gets free passes from the media because he's a legend and won Gold, but his GM moves have been questionable at best. Carle? Overpaid. Salo? Frail. Pouliot? Stinks.
Lindback? Unproven.
I'm not sold on TB yet.
Yeah, I thought Yzerman was a genius in his 1st year when he got Gagne for scraps, traded scrap pieces for top 4 d-man in Brewer and traded a longshot prospect for a veteran goalie that played great for them in the playoffs. He failed to address the defense last year and finally did so this year, but he ended up overpaying for marginal talent like Carle and over-the-hill players like Salo.
no i feel you. kid's gonna be a premiere right winger in this league. i figure the only way he'd be attainable would be to give up a defenseman/top defensive prospect for him. Edmonton DOES have expendable forwards, now, though. *coughPAAJARVIcough*
Paajarvi can be had for sure but I don't think the Oilers are just looking to give him away.
I'd consider a Paajarvi for Anisimov swap, but they'd prob be looking for McIlrath.
If, IF we get involved we'll give Polie two options: a Staal, Stepan, 1st for an unsigned Weber and a Staal, Stepan, Kreider, McIlrath 1st for a signed Weber.
Please find someone that agrees with this. I will paypal you some money if you can. There is no way Weber costs this much for either scenario. And if by some miracle that was the asking price, I wouldn't do. Nor would anyone. I think the reason why you are so against the thought of a trade for Weber, is because you lived in a warp reality where we have to trade our entire team for him. Which isnt the case. Find a single trade in the history of the NHL for a rental player that comes anywhere near Staal, Stepan, and a 1st.
Really... I am not aware that Weber could declare that he will not sign an extension and test Free Agency? I can quote several posts where I said exactly that. Here is one example for ya.
Weber/Nash can do one of 4 things really.
1.) Resign with Nashville
2.) Get traded to another team with an agreed upon extension
3.) Get traded to another team with no extension and test free agency.
4.) Not get traded, and test UFA(Suter, doubt Nashville allows this to happen again)
Only in condition number two is Staal+ being offered. But you say, "Why trade Staal for a 1 year Weber rental?
I feel that 1/2 are most logical/realistic scenarios. Some people don't understand that the new CBA could limit contract years. Weber can get a 10+ year contract now, but might only be allowed 6 years under the new CBA.
Weber could be losing between 10-20 million dollars if he waits.
Paajarvi can be had for sure but I don't think the Oilers are just looking to give him away.
I'd consider a Paajarvi for Anisimov swap, but they'd prob be looking for McIlrath.
Serious question...why would you give up a center for a wing when most of your top offensive prospects are wings? The Rangers have very little organizational depth at center.
Thats NEVER going to happen, Polie is not going to allow a repeat of Suter. He is going to trade Weber before he can get to free agency. The team that is going to acquire him, is going to sign him to an extension(they are going to give up quite a bit to get him).
Two scenarios:
1)Polie gets Weber resigned.
2)Weber refuses to sign with Nashville, Polie trades him. Weber signs an extension with the team that traded for him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadHookUp
Really... I am not aware that Weber could declare that he will not sign an extension and test Free Agency? I can quote several posts where I said exactly that. Here is one example for ya.
Weber/Nash can do one of 4 things really.
1.) Resign with Nashville
2.) Get traded to another team with an agreed upon extension
3.) Get traded to another team with no extension and test free agency.
4.) Not get traded, and test UFA(Suter, doubt Nashville allows this to happen again)
Only in condition number two is Staal+ being offered. But you say, "Why trade Staal for a 1 year Weber rental?
See, the problem here is you are taking conversations about specific posts and twisting it around. My post about the "two narrow scenarios" was a reply to the first quoted post.
The last post you quoted me on was out of context too. It was from the very beginning of the Weber discussion and guys were completely assuming that Staal will bolt in a short 4 years and at the same time completely assuming that Weber will re-sign with us if we trade for him. I just offered a completely different outcome to the same set of circumstances. Bringing that quote in now isn't the same as it was then, completely out of context.
Jokinen, Naslund and Straka were all 1st round picks who were late bloomers. MPS has boatloads of skill but he was bypassed by guys who were NHL ready. Renney had him rotting in the press box for months. He should have been in the AHL getting 20 mins a night.
Gagner and MPS are the odd men out there. They need defense. We have it.
Paajarvi had 8 points in the NHL last year. 2 goals. In 41 games.
Anisimov is the far superior player at this point. No thanks.
This. Anisimov is underrated. I could see Edmonton being interested in him to play him with the Yak. Young big, Russian center to build around with Yakupov. I'm not sure what they are willing to part with though.
Please find someone that agrees with this. I will paypal you some money if you can. There is no way Weber costs this much for either scenario. And if by some miracle that was the asking price, I wouldn't do. Nor would anyone. I think the reason why you are so against the thought of a trade for Weber, is because you lived in a warp reality where we have to trade our entire team for him. Which isnt the case. Find a single trade in the history of the NHL for a rental player that comes anywhere near Staal, Stepan, and a 1st.
Ok, because he'll come cheap with 30 teams bidding. What's your interpretation of "Staal +" then? I could use a laugh.
Serious question...why would you give up a center for a wing when most of your top offensive prospects are wings? The Rangers have very little organizational depth at center.
Fair point, but I'm not convinced Anisimov is a true center.
I'd take a chance on the guy with the massive upside over the guy who is your quintessential jack of all trades, master of none tweener, even if the former is a winger.
Plus, you can always deal some of that wing depth for a 3C if need be.
I think Ryan goes to Philly and Nash goes to LA. Both make sense. Ryan love Philly and Flyers can send one of Read or Schenn to highlight the package. LA still has a great pool with Bernier, Forbort, Loktionov, etc.
Jokinen, Naslund and Straka were all 1st round picks who were late bloomers. MPS has boatloads of skill but he was bypassed by guys who were NHL ready. Renney had him rotting in the press box for months. He should have been in the AHL getting 20 mins a night.
Gagner and MPS are the odd men out there. They need defense. We have it.
Yeah but just because you have extra of something doesn't mean you have to trade it.
Ganger has shown flashes, but nothing consistent...Paajarvi has shown nothing. I know they are both 22 years old, but at this point I believe the smart play is to give Kreider, Miller and Thomas shots and hang on to your depth a D. Afterall...there will come a day when we can afford Staal, Girardi, McD and MDZ and someone will have to take over a spot or two on the backend.
Ok, because he'll come cheap with 30 teams bidding. What's your interpretation of "Staal +" then? I could use a laugh.
Depends on what they want, If Nashville covets Dmen the Rangers are a very attractive option. Vancouver is pretty much the only team that can match with Edler. The problem with Edler I think he is an RFA next summer.
Staal is locked up for another two seasons(after this season). That should give plenty of time for Nasville's defensive prospects to start making headway.
There is a combination of trading packages
1)Staal, Hagelin, 1/2 prospects of their choice/ 1/2 draft picks
That is a realistic package. It may not be enough, if Nashville covets forwards. I don't know. You may throw Dubinsky in there as well.
Personally, I think the Flyers will give an arm and a leg to acquire Weber. But they won't have the best defensemen possible.
Fair point, but I'm not convinced Anisimov is a true center.
I'd take a chance on the guy with the massive upside over the guy who is your quintessential jack of all trades, master of none tweener, even if the former is a winger.
Plus, you can always deal some of that wing depth for a 3C if need be.
Fair points, but Arty is the best we have behind Richards and Stepan at this point.
Weber is not only one of the very best defensemen in the league, he's one of the top 5-6 players in the league. You want elite talent? Weber is elite talent.
LEBRUN: I know in the conversations I’ve had with Howson since last February’s trade deadline came and went without a deal, he has remained consistent about one thing: even if it takes until August, September, heck, December, he would wait until he got the deal he wanted. He’s asking for a lot, no question. As one NHL GM told me Thursday, Howson is looking for a home-run deal but right now only doubles are being offered. Question is, will the home run come? The Rangers, to me, remain the most natural trade partner out there. They’ve got the young assets to deal. The Penguins are also looking at Nash, but they won’t overpay to get him. The Flyers have flirted with the idea, but something tells me Bobby Ryan in Anaheim makes more sense for them. And there’s San Jose, another team on Nash’s short list. The Sharks do indeed covet him, would love to see him on a line with Joe Thornton, but as long as the starting asking price is Logan Couture as part of the package, San Jose will never do that. I think the question for ownership in Columbus is: at some point does the distraction of still having Nash on your roster outweigh the merits of holding out for the home-run deal? I have to think there’s a breaking point. You need to sell tickets this summer, you need to put a new marketing face on this team, one without Nash on it. If I’m Howson, I take the best deal that’s there by the end of this month -- the very latest -- and move on it.
Depends on what they want, If Nashville covets Dmen the Rangers are a very attractive option. Vancouver is pretty much the only team that can match with Edler. The problem with Edler I think he is an RFA next summer.
Staal is locked up for another two seasons. That should give plenty of time for Nasville's defensive prospects to start making headway.
There is a combination of trading packages
1)Staal, Hagelin, 1/2 prospects of their choice/ 1/2 draft picks
That is a realistic package. It may not be enough, if Nashville covets forwards. I don't know.
Well first off I think two roster players, two prospects and two picks is nuts...but that's just me...agree to disagree there.
But why would you give up Staal, who is a shutdown d-man and will be much cheaper than Weber for at least two and more likely 4 or 5 more years. Our defense is so good because of how they work as a unit. They are cheap, they are effective and they are the reason we made the conference finals. Why give up the farm to get a guy who will kill your cap situation and prevent you from adding the offense you so desperately need.
Well first off I think two roster players, two prospects and two picks is nuts...but that's just me...agree to disagree there.
But why would you give up Staal, who is a shutdown d-man and will be much cheaper than Weber for at least two and more likely 4 or 5 more years. Our defense is so good because of how they work as a unit. They are cheap, they are effective and they are the reason we made the conference finals. Why give up the farm to get a guy who will kill your cap situation and prevent you from adding the offense you so desperately need.
Well the combination would be either 1 prospect/2 picks or 2 prospects/1 pick. That is what I meant.
The other point has been discussed to death. Its becoming a Cul-de-sac. There are pros and cons to doing this. It all depends on what side of the fence your on.
Personally, I'm not completely in love with the idea. But it may be a possibility to the Rangers front office plans.
Last edited by Blueshirt Believer: 07-06-2012 at 12:57 PM.
