HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Nashville Predators
Notices

Trade Weber?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-06-2012, 01:21 PM
  #176
Stranger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Nashville
Country: United States
Posts: 5,430
vCash: 500
Good read from Kevin Allen:

Quote:
Poile needs to handle with the Shea Weber situation the way that Shero dealt with the Jordan Staal situation: You offer the player the best contract extension you can afford. If he doesn't accept, you trade him, preferably to a place he wants to play.
Quote:
Losing Suter without getting anything in return was hurtful. Losing Weber after Suter could be disastrous.
Quote:
Based on history, the Predators could probably get an exceptional prospect, a first-round pick, and a couple of players to help them now. Maybe that doesn't seem like enough, but it's more than they received for Suter.
USA Today:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...act/56061542/1


Also, is Kevin Allen considered a Poile basher now?


Last edited by Stranger: 07-06-2012 at 01:30 PM.
Stranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2012, 01:30 PM
  #177
Blueshirt Believer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,063
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Good read from Kevin Allen:







USA Today:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...act/56061542/1


Also, is Kevin Allen now considered a Poile basher now?
I think the article is kinda silly. If Polie is looking to trade Weber it isn't going to be for a rental package. If Weber is traded he is going to sign with whatever team he is traded to. He is going to sign before the new CBA(whether with Nashville or someone else).

Polie is going to get a ransom for Weber or Weber is going to resign.

Blueshirt Believer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2012, 01:35 PM
  #178
Dave is a killer
Roll Wide Roll
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Country: Italy
Posts: 22,742
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
I think the article is kinda silly. If Polie is looking to trade Weber it isn't going to be for a rental package. If Weber is traded he is going to sign with whatever team he is traded to. He is going to sign before the new CBA(whether with Nashville or someone else).

Polie is going to get a ransom for Weber or Weber is going to resign.
that's right ... If Poile plays this right ... Shea will be coerced into signing for a huge sum of money or he'll be traded for players that will actually harm the team he's traded to.

Dave is a killer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2012, 01:36 PM
  #179
Paranoid Android
ERMAHGERD
 
Paranoid Android's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 11,262
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Good read from Kevin Allen:







USA Today:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...act/56061542/1


Also, is Kevin Allen considered a Poile basher now?
Being discussed here
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...7#post52216337

and here
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1225747

Why would you consider Allen a "Poile basher" though? What he said in this article is what has already been discussed here and in agreement with everyone. It's the right move.

Paranoid Android is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2012, 01:37 PM
  #180
glenngineer
Registered User
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,760
vCash: 500
It's funny that Allen wrote that article but it basically affirms what everyone around here believes needs to happen. Many of us have said the very same thing yet we didn't get paid to write it.

glenngineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2012, 01:40 PM
  #181
Blueshirt Believer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,063
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoarding Assets View Post
that's right ... If Poile plays this right ... Shea will be coerced into signing for a huge sum of money or he'll be traded for players that will actually harm the team he's traded to.
Not necessarily, some teams can afford the Ransom and not hurt their team. It depends on the team in question and what Nashville covets.

Blueshirt Believer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2012, 01:41 PM
  #182
Stranger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Nashville
Country: United States
Posts: 5,430
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Why would you consider Allen a "Poile basher" though? What he said in this article is what has already been discussed here and in agreement with everyone. It's the right move.
Apparently it wasn't the right move for Suter though...

Stranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2012, 01:45 PM
  #183
Paranoid Android
ERMAHGERD
 
Paranoid Android's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 11,262
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Apparently it wasn't the right move for Suter though...
That is correct.

Paranoid Android is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2012, 01:50 PM
  #184
weeze
Registered User
 
weeze's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Illinois
Country: United States
Posts: 230
vCash: 500
I say we offer Weber 12yrs $100M... If he signs then AWESOME, if he says no thanks then start the process to trade him immediately! I want him to sign and I also want the Preds to go get a Semin, Ryan, Doan type player or two! Then I want to kick the Sh%t out of the Wild forever! It would have been nice to have Tootoo on the team to give Suter some hell (by Hell I mean some MEAN body checks) when we play them! If we improve our offense, I think our defense will be just fine.

SIGN Weber NOW! Sign some top 6 forwards NOW!

weeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2012, 01:51 PM
  #185
Top 6 Spaling
Registered User
 
Top 6 Spaling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Smashville
Country: United States
Posts: 9,346
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Apparently it wasn't the right move for Suter though...
Difference: We had a legitimate shot at the cup last year. This year, not so much.

Top 6 Spaling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2012, 01:56 PM
  #186
weeze
Registered User
 
weeze's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Illinois
Country: United States
Posts: 230
vCash: 500
I am sure that GMDP thought RS was coming back to play with SW. If Weber is in disbelief in Suter leaving, then there must be something to the Poile thinking Suter was coming back.

Hindsight being what it is, should have made offer to RS accept or be traded.

weeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2012, 01:56 PM
  #187
Stranger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Nashville
Country: United States
Posts: 5,430
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
Difference: We had a legitimate shot at the cup last year. This year, not so much.
I beg to differ on a legitimate shot at the cup last year, but whatever. Our franchise is in much better shape losing Suter for nothing and losing in the second round.

Stranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2012, 01:58 PM
  #188
Top 6 Spaling
Registered User
 
Top 6 Spaling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Smashville
Country: United States
Posts: 9,346
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
I beg to differ on a legitimate shot at the cup last year.
Suter left for "family reasons", not to win a cup. If he had gone to Detroit, I would agree with you. Oh wait, we beat them in the playoffs. If the decision came down to us, Minny, and Detroit, it was never about winning.

Weber, we don't know. We'll see.

Top 6 Spaling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2012, 02:19 PM
  #189
weeze
Registered User
 
weeze's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Illinois
Country: United States
Posts: 230
vCash: 500
I agree that saying we had a legitimate shot at winning the SC was an overreach. I think we were in the discussion, but just because we added AK, AR, PG and HG did not make us the legitimate favorite to win. I think adding HG and PG helped us as a team in some aspects. The other two did not. I was all for AK thinking he would turn around and be a big scoring forward for us, his defense was not very good and that hurt us. AR came in with the world at his fingertips, too bad his fingers and hands were not connected to rest of his body. He was better at being a medium fish in a little pond. So glad all the AR stuff is now over and we can move forward from it!

weeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2012, 02:24 PM
  #190
RaiderDoug
Registered User
 
RaiderDoug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Knoxville
Country: United States
Posts: 1,549
vCash: 500
If we weren't a favorite in the West, i'd like to know who was?

Certainly wasn't the Kings. Wasn't Phoenix. Couldn't have been Vancouver - they were crushed in round 1.

St. Lou did the same as we did - and if we weren't contenders, they weren't either.

Imagine that - an entire Western conference with not a single legit contending team.

RaiderDoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2012, 02:29 PM
  #191
Top 6 Spaling
Registered User
 
Top 6 Spaling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Smashville
Country: United States
Posts: 9,346
vCash: 500
We weren't the favorites, but we had a real shot IMO. I can find the article, but around 3 of 8 NHL.com analysts picked us to make the finals.

Top 6 Spaling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2012, 02:30 PM
  #192
RaiderDoug
Registered User
 
RaiderDoug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Knoxville
Country: United States
Posts: 1,549
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
We weren't the favorites, but we had a real shot IMO. I can find the article, but around 3 of 8 NHL.com analysts picked us to make the finals.
I remember seeing that also.

When you get that close, I'm all for rolling the dice and going all in.

RaiderDoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2012, 02:36 PM
  #193
weeze
Registered User
 
weeze's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Illinois
Country: United States
Posts: 230
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
If we weren't a favorite in the West, i'd like to know who was?

Certainly wasn't the Kings. Wasn't Phoenix. Couldn't have been Vancouver - they were crushed in round 1.

St. Lou did the same as we did - and if we weren't contenders, they weren't either.

Imagine that - an entire Western conference with not a single legit contending team.
We weren't the favorite. Van was, then Stl and Det after them. Phoenix rode there goaltender all the way to the WCF. We were not expected to beat Det, especially after they won so many games at home. The Kings underachieved all year. They had just as good goaltending as anyone, the offensive players were there as well, just didn't put it together till the end of the season. Chicago played Phoenix better than we did, they just didn't have a goalie to give them some help. I believe the West was much better from 1-8 than the East. A great goaltender and some scoring won it. We had defense and a goaltender but no scoring.

weeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2012, 02:48 PM
  #194
gopreds19
Formerly gobears19
 
gopreds19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,137
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
If we weren't a favorite in the West, i'd like to know who was?

Certainly wasn't the Kings. Wasn't Phoenix. Couldn't have been Vancouver - they were crushed in round 1.

St. Lou did the same as we did - and if we weren't contenders, they weren't either.

Imagine that - an entire Western conference with not a single legit contending team.
It's a crapshoot in the playoffs (except when Trotz is coaching). Some teams have the chemistry and momentum, others don't. Just because 3/8 "analysts" think we were a favorite doesn't mean squat. We got steamrolled by Phx in the second round. Therefore, we weren't a favorite. We didn't even get 1/2 way there. We squeezed by a sunsetting DRW team. Woo Hoo! No better than last year, in fact worse. We played Vancouver much more competitively than we played Phx (who LA had no trouble bouncing, btw).

But to sacrifice your future because you perceive this is your shot (when it's not even your shot), that's bad management. People assume trading Suter results in receiving nothing that would have helped our team for the playoffs. That's dumb too.

Rental or not, Suter would have been by far the biggest name available had Poile traded him. The market was exactly -0- on Number 1 defensemen. The return would have been sizable, and we'd be talking today about how Trotz would be scheming to maximize them. We'd be talking about the stud prospects that may crack the lineup this year, and all those players would at least give Weber something to be excited about if he's considering re-signing here. Instead, we've got the empty bag.

gopreds19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2012, 02:52 PM
  #195
Top 6 Spaling
Registered User
 
Top 6 Spaling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Smashville
Country: United States
Posts: 9,346
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
It's a crapshoot in the playoffs (except when Trotz is coaching). Some teams have the chemistry and momentum, others don't. Just because 3/8 "analysts" think we were a favorite doesn't mean squat. We got steamrolled by Phx in the second round. Therefore, we weren't a favorite. We didn't even get 1/2 way there. We squeezed by a sunsetting DRW team. Woo Hoo! No better than last year, in fact worse. We played Vancouver much more competitively than we played Phx (who LA had no trouble bouncing, btw).

But to sacrifice your future because you perceive this is your shot (when it's not even your shot), that's bad management. People assume trading Suter results in receiving nothing that would have helped our team for the playoffs. That's dumb too.

Rental or not, Suter would have been by far the biggest name available had Poile traded him. The market was exactly -0- on Number 1 defensemen. The return would have been sizable, and we'd be talking today about how Trotz would be scheming to maximize them. We'd be talking about the stud prospects that may crack the lineup this year, and all those players would at least give Weber something to be excited about if he's considering re-signing here. Instead, we've got the empty bag.


So....you pick who the favorites are after you know who wins?

Top 6 Spaling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2012, 02:52 PM
  #196
ThirdManIn
Mod Supervisor
 
ThirdManIn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 42,122
vCash: 500
First of all, having a negative opinion of moves Poile makes or doesn't make doesn't make you a Poile basher. I would say to be a Poile basher one must bash him at every opportunity, regardless of context. Otherwise you're probably not letting your bias win out in every discussion.

Second, just because trading Weber if he won't commit long term is the right move doesn't mean trading Suter would have been. These are completely different situations. Suter would have had to have been traded at the deadline, and the deal would have been made under the impression that it was a rental move (if the GM is smart). At the time, his value as an asset in a trade likely wasn't higher than his value as a player on the team (in Poile's mind).

Right now, Weber has massive value. Look at the contract Suter just got, and he is viewed as the lesser of the two defenseman by pretty much everyone in the hockey world outside of Nashville. A team will likely be willing to give up a pretty good return to have an entire summer and season to sign Weber rather than trying to emerge victorious in a bidding war that could get insane. It's likely Weber wants to sign a new deal before the CBA since no one really has any idea what the new CBA will look like.

Also, Suter's departure makes the Weber situation a different monster. You can't put the fan base through another one of those only to lose. Too many strides have been made to solidify the fan base and the organization for it to take that kind of hit twice in the same summer. We can't view these things in a vacuum, assuming the whole time that one situation is exactly like another without any outside forces changing the scenario.

ThirdManIn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2012, 03:00 PM
  #197
predfan24
Registered User
 
predfan24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,107
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
I beg to differ on a legitimate shot at the cup last year, but whatever. Our franchise is in much better shape losing Suter for nothing and losing in the second round.
Not trying to bash you but I'd like to hear your opinion on how we didn't have a legit shot at the cup last season? Were we overwhelming favorites? Hell no. But the team constructed had a decent chance if they played to their ability. It didn't happen but the goal in hockey is to win the SC period. When you are close I'm ok with rolling the dice.

predfan24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2012, 03:06 PM
  #198
RaiderDoug
Registered User
 
RaiderDoug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Knoxville
Country: United States
Posts: 1,549
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
It's a crapshoot in the playoffs (except when Trotz is coaching). Some teams have the chemistry and momentum, others don't. Just because 3/8 "analysts" think we were a favorite doesn't mean squat. We got steamrolled by Phx in the second round. Therefore, we weren't a favorite. We didn't even get 1/2 way there. We squeezed by a sunsetting DRW team. Woo Hoo! No better than last year, in fact worse. We played Vancouver much more competitively than we played Phx (who LA had no trouble bouncing, btw).
By that logic, the President's trophy winning Canucks we're not a Stanley Cup favorite because they got bounced in the first round. The only favorites would have been the Kings and Coyotes - two teams that eeked into the playoffs.

If you actually had them as Stanley Cup favorites on, say, April 1, you need to go to Vegas.

Quote:
But to sacrifice your future because you perceive this is your shot (when it's not even your shot), that's bad management. People assume trading Suter results in receiving nothing that would have helped our team for the playoffs. That's dumb too.

Rental or not, Suter would have been by far the biggest name available had Poile traded him. The market was exactly -0- on Number 1 defensemen. The return would have been sizable, and we'd be talking today about how Trotz would be scheming to maximize them. We'd be talking about the stud prospects that may crack the lineup this year, and all those players would at least give Weber something to be excited about if he's considering re-signing here. Instead, we've got the empty bag.
That's a total assumption, something you hate.

It's just as possible we would have garnered multiple duds and picks that wouldn't be NHL ready for 3-4 years.

The Kovalchuk/Hossa deals are probably the most comparable trade deadline deals - and look what that got Atlanta - a one way ticket to Winnepeg.

It's just as likely, if not more so, that we would have landed nothing of value than if we would have traded a rental Suter for a package of super studs that would have helped the team win for the next decade.

RaiderDoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2012, 03:12 PM
  #199
gopreds19
Formerly gobears19
 
gopreds19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,137
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by predfan24 View Post
Not trying to bash you but I'd like to hear your opinion on how we didn't have a legit shot at the cup last season? Were we overwhelming favorites? Hell no. But the team constructed had a decent chance if they played to their ability. It didn't happen but the goal in hockey is to win the SC period. When you are close I'm ok with rolling the dice.
Would our chances have been any worse if we had:

Jordan Stall, Michalek, 1st Rounder

or

Couturier + Simmonds

or

Lucic + whatever

gopreds19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2012, 03:14 PM
  #200
weeze
Registered User
 
weeze's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Illinois
Country: United States
Posts: 230
vCash: 500
I think we were 1 of 4 teams from the West who were considered SC contenders with Phoenix and Chicago at the bottom. Our defense and goaltending kept us in games while our offense and PP/PK was non-existent, again! I really believe our defense will suffer some but will still be better than most others, it's the offense that has been missing for some time now. Lock Weber up then go out and get a TOP 6/sniper type player or two!

weeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:17 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.