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Old
07-06-2012, 03:18 PM
  #201
Paranoid Android
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
Would our chances have been any worse if we had:

Jordan Stall, Michalek, 1st Rounder

or

Couturier + Simmonds

or

Lucic + whatever
1. Absolutely. We are a much worse team overall if you swap Suter for any of those packages.

2. You are reaching if you think Suter would have returned one of those packages. You are valuing a deadline rental way too high. Think 1st round pick + prospect + irrelevant roster player

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07-06-2012, 03:20 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by weeze View Post
I think we were 1 of 4 teams from the West who were considered SC contenders with Phoenix and Chicago at the bottom. Our defense and goaltending kept us in games while our offense and PP/PK was non-existent, again! I really believe our defense will suffer some but will still be better than most others, it's the offense that has been missing for some time now. Lock Weber up then go out and get a TOP 6/sniper type player or two!
Our power play was non-existent?
Really?

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07-06-2012, 03:21 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
Would our chances have been any worse if we had:

Jordan Stall, Michalek, 1st Rounder

or

Couturier + Simmonds

or

Lucic + whatever



You think 25 games of rental Ryan Suter would have landed any of those packages?

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Old
07-06-2012, 03:28 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
Our power play was non-existent?
Really?
I'm thinking the poster may have meant the PP was non-existent during the playoffs, which would be an irrelevant point to make when you're trying to show that the team wasn't a favorite going into the playoffs.

Going into the playoffs the Preds had the best powerplay in the league. This was a team that was top ten in the following categories: Total Wins, Total Goals Scored, Goals For/Game, Goals Against/Game, PP, PK, and Penalties Taken/Game (we took the fewest).

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07-06-2012, 03:30 PM
  #205
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Talking with some trade board folks and we cooked up a 3 way trade between us, Cbus, and Vancouver. Haven't gotten many responses yet, but I'm curious what you guys think.

Nashville trades Weber+Wilson+2013 1st for Nash+Edler
Columbus trades Nash+2013 1st for Booth+Luongo+Wilson+Nash 1st+Van 1st
Vancouver trades Edler+Booth+Luongo+2013 1st for Weber+CBJ 1st

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Old
07-06-2012, 03:33 PM
  #206
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Columbus gets one hell of a return for Nash and a 1st in that package, but I wouldn't be pissed off. We'd still be in a similar position of needing one top 4 defenseman, though Edler is an obvious downgrade from Weber. Nash, while I don't think he is nearly as good as his cap hit, would be our best winger.

That said, I don't think we see a three-way deal that involves players of that caliber. We're talking about Weber, Luongo, Nash, and Edler all moved between three teams. That would be insane.

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07-06-2012, 03:35 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Columbus gets one hell of a return for Nash and a 1st in that package, but I wouldn't be pissed off. We'd still be in a similar position of needing one top 4 defenseman, though Edler is an obvious downgrade from Weber. Nash, while I don't think he is nearly as good as his cap hit, would be our best winger.

That said, I don't think we see a three-way deal that involves players of that caliber. We're talking about Weber, Luongo, Nash, and Edler all moved between three teams. That would be insane.
I don't think it's all realistic, seeing as Nash and Lu both have NTC (and maybe Edler?), but I was curious on value.

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07-06-2012, 03:43 PM
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post


You think 25 games of rental Ryan Suter would have landed any of those packages?
You undervalue a true bona-fide Number 1 Defenseman like Suter, expecially to a team who can't stop my grandmother from scoring.

Also consider that the receiving team would have several months of exclusive negotiating rights with Suter. His value to a contending east conference team would have been: Young Stud Roster Player + Prospect/1st Rounder.

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07-06-2012, 03:48 PM
  #209
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There is a HUGE difference when considering trading Suter when talking about when you would trade him.

Trading Suter at the deadline was the WRONG move. The team was rolling and Poile made alot of moves at the time. At that time, we were looking very good on paper and were gearing up for a possible cup run. We would have gotten a decent return but nothing to make up for the loss of Suter.

What I'm saying was to trade Suter during last offseason after he wouldn't commit. That is when you get a much better return for Suter and I don't think we would have fallen off that much depending on the trade.

Hopefully Poile has learned this lesson. If so, why not keep Weber. After all, it may hurt our chances for the playoffs next year if we trade him, right?

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07-06-2012, 03:52 PM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
You undervalue a true bona-fide Number 1 Defenseman like Suter, expecially to a team who can't stop my grandmother from scoring.

Also consider that the receiving team would have several months of exclusive negotiating rights with Suter. His value to a contending east conference team would have been: Young Stud Roster Player + Prospect/1st Rounder.
Please, go to the Flyers board, and ask them if they would have traded Coots and Simmonds for a rental Ryan Suter.

Be sure to link back here so we can all see.

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07-06-2012, 03:57 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
I don't think it's all realistic, seeing as Nash and Lu both have NTC (and maybe Edler?), but I was curious on value.
Value is pretty solid.

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07-06-2012, 03:59 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
There is a HUGE difference when considering trading Suter when talking about when you would trade him.

Trading Suter at the deadline was the WRONG move. The team was rolling and Poile made alot of moves at the time. At that time, we were looking very good on paper and were gearing up for a possible cup run. We would have gotten a decent return but nothing to make up for the loss of Suter.

What I'm saying was to trade Suter during last offseason after he wouldn't commit. That is when you get a much better return for Suter and I don't think we would have fallen off that much depending on the trade.

Hopefully Poile has learned this lesson. If so, why not keep Weber. After all, it may hurt our chances for the playoffs next year if we trade him, right?
I can see trading him last offseason being the right move now that we have hindsight to guide us, but last offseason Weber was the priority. I honestly think Poile felt like most of us; Suter will be the easy one to keep while Weber will be a challenge.

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07-06-2012, 04:03 PM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
There is a HUGE difference when considering trading Suter when talking about when you would trade him.

Trading Suter at the deadline was the WRONG move. The team was rolling and Poile made alot of moves at the time. At that time, we were looking very good on paper and were gearing up for a possible cup run. We would have gotten a decent return but nothing to make up for the loss of Suter.

What I'm saying was to trade Suter during last offseason after he wouldn't commit. That is when you get a much better return for Suter and I don't think we would have fallen off that much depending on the trade.

Hopefully Poile has learned this lesson. If so, why not keep Weber. After all, it may hurt our chances for the playoffs next year if we trade him, right?
I could agree with this.

That said, very few of us on this board last offseason were advocating trading Suter at that time. All the talk was Weber and his arb, and how we should give all the cash to Suter and trade Weber.

This is all with the benefit of hindsight.

I can play that too - why did DP let Suter set his market value. He should have put a 13@7mil contract on the table Jan 1st? It's one thing to go July 1 and get to chose from 5 different gigantic contracts and listen to a bunch of different pitches from a bunch of different teams.

It's another to have a 100 mil contract sitting on the table and having to walk by it for 6 months knowing that all you have to do is sign. It would have taken a certain type of individual to turn that bird down for the two in the bush.

Odds are, Preds could have probably bought out Suter's free agency with a big enough deal (yet probably one that would have been less than what he signed for Wednesday).

If you're looking for a baseball analogy, it's kind of what the Tampa Bay Rays do - they know that they can't compete with the Yanks/BoSox once a player hits free agency. So they identify their core players, and they offer them bigger contracts than they're worth when they're younger to get the FA years bought out at reasonable rates.

Preds might want to starting thinking about doing that with guys like Josi/Smith/Wilson - pay a little more now in order to get the years you want and make sure they don't hit UFA for quite a while. (Although, I'm not entirely sure the NHL CBA will allow this).

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07-06-2012, 04:05 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
I can see trading him last offseason being the right move now that we have hindsight to guide us, but last offseason Weber was the priority. I honestly think Poile felt like most of us; Suter will be the easy one to keep while Weber will be a challenge.
Not even hindsight really. It is about maximizing your assets with guys like that if there is any doubt. Some guys are too big to let loose for nothing. I'm not blaming it all on Poile either. Suter looks like a real snake now and I've really lost alot of respect for him. But perhaps Poile should have taken somewhat of a hint with him and Weber after they failed to commit to us.

Not only do you have more of a direction earlier, but perhaps Poile doesn't have to use a ton of assets at the deadline to appease Suter either....

Regardless it is in the past. Hopefully Poile doesn't make the same mistake with Weber.

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07-06-2012, 04:07 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
If you're looking for a baseball analogy, it's kind of what the Tampa Bay Rays do - they know that they can't compete with the Yanks/BoSox once a player hits free agency. So they identify their core players, and they offer them bigger contracts than they're worth when they're younger to get the FA years bought out at reasonable rates.

Preds might want to starting thinking about doing that with guys like Josi/Smith/Wilson - pay a little more now in order to get the years you want and make sure they don't hit UFA for quite a while. (Although, I'm not entirely sure the NHL CBA will allow this).
Great point. Definitely something the Predators will have to do.

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07-06-2012, 04:07 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Not even hindsight really. It is about maximizing your assets with guys like that if there is any doubt. Some guys are too big to let loose for nothing. I'm not blaming it all on Poile either. Suter looks like a real snake now and I've really lost alot of respect for him. But perhaps Poile should have taken somewhat of a hint with him and Weber after they failed to commit to us.

Not only do you have more of a direction earlier, but perhaps Poile doesn't have to use a ton of assets at the deadline to appease Suter either....

Regardless it is in the past. Hopefully Poile doesn't make the same mistake with Weber.
That's the thing though, Suter did commit to him. He agreed to term and years in November. At that point, Poile had to keep moving forward under that assumption. Once the trade deadline hit and we were in contention, he couldn't unload Suter at all. He got misled, plain and simple. It will not happen again with Weber. If Weber isn't signed long term before the season starts or the new CBA is signed, Weber will be traded and we will move on as a franchise.

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07-06-2012, 04:10 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
That's the thing though, Suter did commit to him. He agreed to term and years in November. At that point, Poile had to keep moving forward under that assumption. Once the trade deadline hit and we were in contention, he couldn't unload Suter at all. He got misled, plain and simple. It will not happen again with Weber. If Weber isn't signed long term before the season starts or the new CBA is signed, Weber will be traded and we will move on as a franchise.
I see what you are saying and I think Suter is alot in the wrong, but it isn't a commitment until a deal is signed

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07-06-2012, 04:11 PM
  #218
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I withdrew from the hockey world all day Wednesday and much of the day yesterday. What were Poile's comments exactly? Can someone summarize or provide a link? A summary would be the best since I have to leave for work soon, and I could read it on my phone.

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07-06-2012, 04:19 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
I withdrew from the hockey world all day Wednesday and much of the day yesterday. What were Poile's comments exactly? Can someone summarize or provide a link? A summary would be the best since I have to leave for work soon, and I could read it on my phone.

Quote:
“I was looking at all my notes (from our conversations) yesterday and Ryan had said in November that he’s not going anywhere else. He is signing with the Nashville Predators. That’s a quote,” Poile said.
Quote:
“(Suter) told me today that our offer was ‘substantial’ but that it was not about the money,” Poile said. “So I said, ‘Then I don’t know why you’re not re-signing with us.’ And he told me it was for family reasons. That’s where the disappointment comes in.

“The disappointing part is that’s not what we talked about all year long. I think we met Ryan’s desires on every front so today is very, very disappointing.”
Link: http://www.section303.com/poile-we-m...pointing-16937

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07-06-2012, 04:27 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
I see what you are saying and I think Suter is alot in the wrong, but it isn't a commitment until a deal is signed
A man is only as good as his word. Gotta think Suter is a good enough man to trust.

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07-06-2012, 04:41 PM
  #221
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Thanks! I'll read the entire thing if work gets slow.

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07-06-2012, 04:57 PM
  #222
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so pretty much weber wants to leave now... just great.

trade the ****er now

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07-06-2012, 05:14 PM
  #223
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Don't wanna double up the posts but just gonna put this in this thread too:

Quote:
@WillyD1025 Poile on @1025TheGame on Weber: "Ownership has told me #Preds would match any and all offer sheet"

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Old
07-06-2012, 05:17 PM
  #224
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wasn't it pretty well established that the contract was on the table for suter to sign?

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07-06-2012, 05:26 PM
  #225
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wasn't it pretty well established that the contract was on the table for suter to sign?
yes...

and weber isnt gonna look for a offer sheet according to bob mckenzie. he knows we would match and he would be locked up long term. and it sounded to me like he doesn't want that with us with suter's departure.

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