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Offseason Thread Part V: We're Comfortable With Our Defense

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Old
07-06-2012, 03:36 PM
  #976
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Originally Posted by StormCast View Post
^You guys are really going to argue Semin vs. Parise based on points? Wow.
Points are all that matters. Who cares if Semin clashes with the rest of the lockerrom/the fans/etc? Who cares if he's a sieve defensively? If he puts up points and helps our powerplay, they'll get over it.

Wait...why does this sound so familiar?

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07-06-2012, 03:37 PM
  #977
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If we can get Nash without giving up Skinner/Faulk (which appears to be the only way we'd get Nash), I disagree. Whatever else we have to give up (Jokinen, Murphy, multiple 1st, etc.) would be well worth what Nash brings to the team over Semin.
Well worth it?

Besides slightly better defense and a lot of hits, what exactly does Nash bring to the table that would be worth giving up our entire future?

Because if we are giving up Murphy and two firsts, we are ****ed if Levi/Biega/Alt do not come in and exceed expectations. We can kiss any hope of a competent defense good bye.

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07-06-2012, 03:38 PM
  #978
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Originally Posted by Troll Ward View Post
The game is scored off goals, not who backchecks the best. So, yea, in a vacuum you tend to analyze based on what goes up on the scoreboard, yes.
Might as well set everyone up at the blueline as the other team skates the puck the other way, amirite?

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07-06-2012, 03:39 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by Troll Ward View Post
The game is scored off goals, not who backchecks the best. So, yea, in a vacuum you tend to analyze based on what goes up on the scoreboard, yes.
Really? Thanks for the newsflash.

I guess things like how a player's style and fits best with the system, where/what team needs are, character, etc. don't fit into the vacuum. Oh man.

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07-06-2012, 03:40 PM
  #980
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Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
Well worth it?

Besides slightly better defense and a lot of hits, what exactly does Nash bring to the table that would be worth giving up our entire future?

Because if we are giving up Murphy and two firsts, we are ****ed if Levi/Biega/Alt do not come in and exceed expectations. We can kiss any hope of a competent defense good bye.
We should give up four 1sts for Weber. 10 year, $9.5 million a year offer sheet.

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07-06-2012, 03:41 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Points are all that matters. Who cares if Semin clashes with the rest of the lockerrom/the fans/etc? Who cares if he's a sieve defensively? If he puts up points and helps our powerplay, they'll get over it.
You do realize that Semin has a better career +/- than Nash, right?

And how can you clash with the lockeroom when you can hardly speak their language?

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07-06-2012, 03:41 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by StormCast View Post
Really? Thanks for the newsflash.

I guess things like how a player's style and fits best with the system, where/what team needs are, character, etc. don't fit into the vacuum. Oh man.
Semin is terrible defensively... Just look at that plus/minus. He is out there for way more goals against than scored.

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07-06-2012, 03:43 PM
  #983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
Well worth it?

Besides slightly better defense and a lot of hits, what exactly does Nash bring to the table that would be worth giving up our entire future?

Because if we are giving up Murphy and two firsts, we are ****ed if Levi/Biega/Alt do not come in and exceed expectations. We can kiss any hope of a competent defense good bye.
So...other than everything that Nash brings to the table over Semin...what does Nash bring to the table over Semin? Really?

We could grab defensemen in free agency/trade. It'd actually be easier, because we'd have a stronger team. Is hoping that Murphy/those firsts improves our defense in 2-3 years worth wasting some years of E.Staal/Ward/Gleason in their prime?

Right now is the time for instant gratification. We can't spend the next couple years waiting and hoping that Murphy/Rask/Dalpe/whoever develop into the players that they may or may not develop into.

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07-06-2012, 03:44 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
You do realize that Semin has a better career +/- than Nash, right?

And how can you clash with the lockeroom when you can hardly speak their language?
Maybe they could put him out with cherry picking E. Staal and they would even out...

Really though, if Semin's last name were Staal and he were Canadian he would be very highly regarded.

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07-06-2012, 03:44 PM
  #985
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The guy is not that bad of a locker room guy. He just isn't a leader and complains when not happy.

Seems to remind me of half the people on here *****ing about him lol

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07-06-2012, 03:46 PM
  #986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
You do realize that Semin has a better career +/- than Nash, right?

And how can you clash with the lockeroom when you can hardly speak their language?
Mike Green has a better career +/- than Shea Weber. Guess we can call Mike Green a defensive stalwart as well.

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07-06-2012, 03:47 PM
  #987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
So...other than everything that Nash brings to the table over Semin...what does Nash bring to the table over Semin? Really?
A wrister the likes of which this team has never seen. And a right handed shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
We could grab defensemen in free agency/trade. It'd actually be easier, because we'd have a stronger team. Is hoping that Murphy/those firsts improves our defense in 2-3 years worth wasting some years of E.Staal/Ward/Gleason in their prime?
Or we could keep those assets, sign Semin, and then sign defensemen in FA if they don't pan out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Right now is the time for instant gratification. We can't spend the next couple years waiting and hoping that Murphy/Rask/Dalpe/whoever develop into the players that they may or may not develop into.
And signing Semin fills that qualification. He's an immensely talented winger who will bring a legitimate sniper to our PP, provide space for Staal to operate and is an overall upgrade to our forward core.

Nash does this as well (along with hitting people), but Semin has the added bonus of not costing us assets to acquire.

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07-06-2012, 03:49 PM
  #988
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Mike Green has a better career +/- than Shea Weber. Guess we can call Mike Green a defensive stalwart as well.
You're going to downplay a career +65 vs. a career -71?

One is respectable, the other is downright atrocious.

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07-06-2012, 03:52 PM
  #989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Mike Green has a better career +/- than Shea Weber. Guess we can call Mike Green a defensive stalwart as well.
True enough. The insight from some on this argument is truly remarkable, as is usually the case when it centers on +/- and points. The hell with everything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
You're going to downplay a career +65 vs. a career -71?

One is respectable, the other is downright atrocious.
Context can be your friend. Embrace it.

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07-06-2012, 03:53 PM
  #990
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Semin gets a bad rap, and I assume it's all highly exaggerated. The idea that a guy who can easily score 40 goals being a detriment to a team that can't score enough is laughable. Our "chemistry" doesn't exist in the first place, how can he mess it up? He and ovechkin show up and turn that team into a contender. Then once theyre in it all the time and not winning the cup questions about both of them arise because of "character" or a
lack of defense. It's crap. We aren't a team that's legit for the playoffs two years in a row. We have to do that before we accuse our players of lacking the character required to win the cup.

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07-06-2012, 03:53 PM
  #991
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Originally Posted by StormCast View Post
True enough. The insight from some on this argument is truly remarkable, as is usually the case when it centers on +/- and points. The hell with everything else.
I'm using a stat to prove my argument.

Why don't you show me something that illustrates that Rick Nash is better defensively than Alex Semin.

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07-06-2012, 03:56 PM
  #992
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Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
I'm using a stat to prove my argument.

Why don't you show me something that illustrates that Rick Nash is better defensively than Alex Semin.
Well everyone on hf says he's really bad at defense. And as a teammate. It has to be true.

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07-06-2012, 03:56 PM
  #993
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With Semin it's real easy:

- He left Washington because he wants a bigger role. He wants time on the PK. Washington refuses to give him that...because they watch him on a daily basis.

- Now he's hit free agency, looking for a big payday and a multi-year deal...while still looking for that increased role. He's making demands to teams amidst talks about him being a terrible lockerroom guy. Sounds like a great plan.

- It's telling when no team will give him that multi-year deal he's looking for. From what I understand, Pittsburgh and Detroit are willing to give him a 1-2 year deal (which makes sense, since they have some prominent Russian stars that Semin can communicate with and has played with), but Semin's looking for more years.

- Finally, there's still the possibility of the KHL. Who's to say if Semin does get that 3-4 year, multimillion dollar deal, he won't flee to Russia at the first sign of trouble? If the Canes sign him and start poorly, if he is an outcast in the lockerroom, what guarantee do we have that he won't take the money and run?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
You're going to downplay a career +65 vs. a career -71?

One is respectable, the other is downright atrocious.
Yeah, and one plays for Columbus and the other plays for Washington. You don't see how that might have an effect on one's +/-?

Come on now, you're smarter than that.

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07-06-2012, 03:59 PM
  #994
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
I'm using a stat to prove my argument.

Why don't you show me something that illustrates that Rick Nash is better defensively than Alex Semin.
And that's really the crux of the argument? Who's better defensively?

I'll take an upgrade on D over either Nash or Semin, regardless of which is better defensively.

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07-06-2012, 04:02 PM
  #995
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That's the irony. Who cares about which goal scoring winger is less bad at defense? They both aren't good at it and aren't paid to be two way guys in the first place. If you want goal scoring you're generally gonna have to accept the most dangerous wingers tend to be not particularly spectacular defensive players. Nor should they be.

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07-06-2012, 04:02 PM
  #996
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Alexander Semin is better defensively than Jordan Staal. His career +/- told me so.

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07-06-2012, 04:02 PM
  #997
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Nash is better defensively. But the difference is highly exaggerated. I think Semin on this team would makes us better than Nash.

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07-06-2012, 04:06 PM
  #998
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Honestly these "debates" are just cringeworthy to follow. It's obvious no one will be swayed by other peoples arguments/opinions. As much as we all try to remain objective, it doesn't work since objectivity is a complete illusion. Yes there are things like stats but obviously people (myself included) make their own inferences and judgments on these stats, which are ultimately unprovable no matter how much we want to argue.

/whiteflag

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07-06-2012, 04:07 PM
  #999
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If Nash didn't want to come to Carolina, why would Semin? The only Russian in the entire organization is headed back to Russia next season. Semin makes sense for Carolina, I just don't think Carolina makes sense for Semin.

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07-06-2012, 04:07 PM
  #1000
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I think Semin on this team would makes us better than Nash.
Debatable but I'd rather see that payroll go somehow to improving the D as that's what's needed to really make the team better.

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