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Old
07-06-2012, 05:18 PM
  #101
Hip Of Rick
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
The first part is no big deal. The second part is pretty anticlimactic. If you can't swing a deal in the summer then your chances of swinging one before February 2013 goes down dramatically. Teams massage their rosters now.

If this is it you can book no playoffs.
It is a big deal when the team has zero depth. If we make a trade it could be trading the little depth we have for a bit of an upgrade in quality.

I am not a big fan of a alot of the depth guys still available but every single person on this board can agree we need to bring in another dman and at least one 2nd/3rd line forward. One injury to our D and we are stuck with 2-3 rookies playing a night and with our forwards right now we will have 2-3 rookies playing every night without an injury.

I would rather grab a stop gap like Wellwood, Arnott, Gilroy etc.. and deal with mediocre play from them for a season than seeing Strome, Nino, etc.. being pushed into roles they have not earned and have to watch a different kind of mediocre play.

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07-06-2012, 05:24 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Hip Of Rick View Post
It is a big deal when the team has zero depth. If we make a trade it could be trading the little depth we have for a bit of an upgrade in quality.

I am not a big fan of a alot of the depth guys still available but every single person on this board can agree we need to bring in another dman and at least one 2nd/3rd line forward. One injury to our D and we are stuck with 2-3 rookies playing a night and with our forwards right now we will have 2-3 rookies playing every night without an injury.

I would rather grab a stop gap like Wellwood, Arnott, Gilroy etc.. and deal with mediocre play from them for a season than seeing Strome, Nino, etc.. being pushed into roles they have not earned and have to watch a different kind of mediocre play.
Find myself in great agreeance with this post.

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07-06-2012, 06:01 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hip Of Rick View Post
It is a big deal when the team has zero depth. If we make a trade it could be trading the little depth we have for a bit of an upgrade in quality.

I am not a big fan of a alot of the depth guys still available but every single person on this board can agree we need to bring in another dman and at least one 2nd/3rd line forward. One injury to our D and we are stuck with 2-3 rookies playing a night and with our forwards right now we will have 2-3 rookies playing every night without an injury.

I would rather grab a stop gap like Wellwood, Arnott, Gilroy etc.. and deal with mediocre play from them for a season than seeing Strome, Nino, etc.. being pushed into roles they have not earned and have to watch a different kind of mediocre play.
And there's the rub...

Ullstrom and Cizikas offer similar production as a middling vet anyway.

There's a culture being built here. You don't interrupt the process by suddenly shutting the door of opportunity- that's one of the only things a small market team has going for it.

Players like Streit, Moulson, Grabner, Pap, and Boyes I suspect- flourish in such an environment...opportunity is why a player like Colin MacDonald agreed to sign with the organization.

Funny then, if the Isles are so cheap and don't care how their farm team is coming along nicely, and the necessary moves are being made there to ensure the long-term success of the Islanders.

Your assumption of Strome (ain't happening btw) and Nino being thrust into full-time duty while Cizikas, Ullstrom, and Joensuu are the ones sent packing is as transparent as your avatar.

Bonzo promises a better season from the kids. Really!


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07-06-2012, 06:12 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluechipbonzo View Post

Ullstrom and Cizikas offer similar production as a middling vet anyway.

There's a culture being built here. You don't interrupt the process by suddenly shutting the door of opportunity- that's one of the only things a small market team has going for it.

The only culture that is built around the Isles is losing. I would love to interrupt the process of 5 straight lotto seasons. Giving prospects like Ullstrom and Cizikas a spot on the team because they played an average 15 or so games at the end of the season only perpetuates the losing culture that Snow has built. Make those guys beat out the middling vets for playing time. Let them be injury replacments and maybe we can actually have depth for once. That is how successful teams do it. Unsuccessful teams throw a fish out of water and waits to see if it can flop back in time before they die.

A team of middling vets largely built in one off season has accomplished more in 1 season than Snow has in 6 years. What does that say about this great small market approach that you love so much?

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07-06-2012, 06:22 PM
  #105
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I don't look at Boyes as replacing PAP's prouction. Boyes should get us around 40 points IMO but also give us some physical play at winger/center which we desperately need. I think some of the growth of younger players should make up the rest of the pts we will miss from PAP not to mention I think if Okposo ends up winning the 1st line winger job hopefully he can come close to the same outout because of the JT factor.

PAP - 18goals, 49 assists, 67 pts last year

or

Okposo - playing 1st line minutes IMO 28 goals, 35 assists, 63pts (Last year 24 goals, 21 assists, 45pts)
Boyes - IMO 14 goals, 25 assists, 39 pts


We actually lose 7 points in the exchange however we add a physical forward in Boyes that is hopefully going to save us atleast 7 points on the defensive end that PAP gave up.


Lets face it, Vis last year would have been our 2nd best defenseman. Hopefully Hammer and Amac have a bounce back year and even if they both outplay Vis this upcoming year he's much better than any 4th dman we sent out last year. Carkner has to be better than Mottou or Eaton also.

Overall while we didn't improve by leaps and bounces I think we added "Goals" and also sutracted some "goals against" and any time that happens you have to be somewhat happy with the offseason.

Also Nino gave us nothing last year, Grabs gave us half of what he did the year before, Hammer played ok at best, Reasoner was dead weight, Ullstrom and Cizikas should play more extensive minutes/games, Martin hopefully has a more important role and I'm hoping Bailey hits his stride FINALLY.

The potential is there to sneak into the playoffs, whether it happens or not is another story.

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07-06-2012, 06:26 PM
  #106
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oh wait this is the h*ll, fire and brimstone thread?

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07-06-2012, 07:52 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by LongIslandCircus View Post
What a let down, truly dissapointing. I think we all knew this was coming, afterall it has been forced down our throats season after season. No priority on winning from a sleezy owner and a GM without a pulse. The real focus will now turn to marketing strategies and powder-puff promos.

Also, I'd love to hear Garth's view of "fit" when looking at possible trades. Another indirect response to negate any responsibility for a poorly built roster.
Actually, I think Wang found his sweet spot in knowing his avg attendance during the rebuild, maintaining a similar payroll (cash, not cap), and overall operating costs. He knows what he has to spend to "break even" b/c he already set the market expectations for the club. Any upswing is gravy in his pocket.

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07-06-2012, 08:43 PM
  #108
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I wish Wang would sell the team to LaFontaine and his group of investors, but it would never happen.

One can only hope

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07-06-2012, 09:08 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
It's apparent that there are quite a large amount of posts bashing the organization in many different threads. Rather than littering them with that type of talk, let's try and contain the majority of it in here so we can stay on topic in others. Please remember to adhere to the rules of the site and for those that do no want to participate in negative talk (I'm sure there will be plenty) then simply ignore this thread.

Thanks.

Thank You!!! now I only have to avoid reading one thread!!!

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07-06-2012, 10:00 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hip Of Rick View Post
It is a big deal when the team has zero depth. If we make a trade it could be trading the little depth we have for a bit of an upgrade in quality.

I am not a big fan of a alot of the depth guys still available but every single person on this board can agree we need to bring in another dman and at least one 2nd/3rd line forward. One injury to our D and we are stuck with 2-3 rookies playing a night and with our forwards right now we will have 2-3 rookies playing every night without an injury.
Book it. It will happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluechipbonzo View Post
And there's the rub...
Ullstrom and Cizikas offer similar production as a middling vet anyway.
There's a culture being built here. You don't interrupt the process by suddenly shutting the door of opportunity- that's one of the only things a small market team has going for it.
So you trade for that one piece we all know they need before they can put on their big boy pants. Not a Milbury deal, just a trade to solidify the defense one time. Overpay - who cares. They would be stronger for it.

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07-06-2012, 10:10 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by 10 Min Misconduct View Post
THANK THE LORD!! I'm not the only one. The building situation & uncertainty are 90% of the problem.
Actually, I would contend that Wang is 100% of the problem. 90% of his problem, currently, is the building and situation. If those magically corrected tomorrow, the real problem still remains.

Even when he wasn't worried about the arena and was spending stupid amounts of money on Yashin, DP, arena football, his tennis lessons, etc., Wang still got involved in operations, making decisions better left to people who actually knew what they were doing, and we wound up with a divided locker room, a committee, a ten second GM, a cheesepuff for a Captain, a "no fighting" policy... I could go on but who doesn't know all of this already.

Even if they manage to stay on LI, battle past all the bad names the league and the media have permawelded to our logo, there will always be Charles, waiting to screw the team up with some concept from left field, or handing some albatross a 10 billion dollar 20 year contract, or whatever. I haven't seen an owner like Chuck hell bent on destroying his club in good times AND bad since Ballard. Truly, that is saying a mouthfull because Ballard was Satan. And Wang understands hockey far less than Harold did.

That, 10 Minutes, is the real problem.

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07-06-2012, 10:51 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
Book it. It will happen.

So you trade for that one piece we all know they need before they can put on their big boy pants. Not a Milbury deal, just a trade to solidify the defense one time. Overpay - who cares. They would be stronger for it.
The season hasn't started, plenty of time to sign more defensive depth.

I think Snow went for it with Salvador and Carle. The former was loyal to NJ, and the latter outpriced himself (a contract the TBs will rue I assure you).

I don't completely disagree with the over payment part, simply because lower tiered, non-contending teams, typically have to do this anyway- and as I've said in other posts (and Staple tweeted today) the possibility of an in-season "add" trade is a very real one this year.

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07-06-2012, 10:55 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by bluechipbonzo View Post
The season hasn't started, plenty of time to sign more defensive depth.

I think Snow went for it with Salvador and Carle. The former was loyal to NJ, and the latter outpriced himself (a contract the TBs will rue I assure you).

I don't completely disagree with the over payment part, simply because lower tiered, non-contending teams, typically have to do this anyway- and as I've said in other posts (and Staple tweeted today) the possibility of an in-season "add" trade is a very real one this year.
It will need to be a trade. The competition for even an average defenseman is stiff. I said this last summer as well. It is sad that we still have the same hole and no answer.

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07-06-2012, 11:21 PM
  #114
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People are exagerating, I am confident the Isles will be greatly improved this year, people forget the impact Visnovsky will have on this team, he will make us a really good team and gives us a solid top 4 defensive squad.

We make the playoffs with the addition of visnovky, Carkner, Boyes will compensate for PAP and Nabokov who will play the full season

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07-07-2012, 06:11 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Streit Power View Post
People are exagerating, I am confident the Isles will be greatly improved this year, people forget the impact Visnovsky will have on this team, he will make us a really good team and gives us a solid top 4 defensive squad.

We make the playoffs with the addition of visnovky, Carkner, Boyes will compensate for PAP and Nabokov who will play the full season
forget making playoffs as is right now.

The team has marginally gotten better but others like TorontoTB and a few other are much better.

This ownership is garbage and team will remain just that

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07-07-2012, 08:09 AM
  #116
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Based on this thread,let's pretend it is 6 or 7 months ahead we are 6- 10 points out of playoff spot ,the trade dedline is within sight, Do we
A- Do nothing either way like 2011-2012, with the hopes of resigning the likes of Boyes
(let's say he hits 20 goals and 50 points just a guess) and Streit(after an injury free
Season and 50 points) and Reasoner(4 goals 11 assists BIG bounce back season joke
Here). Nabakov ( 25 -30 wins , 910sv)
B- Trade ( Hey Garth that's spelled T R A D E- exchange of goods or services) for let's say a
Midlevel player for the playoff push
C- Start the call ups from Bridge and alternate these guys with any dead wood vets until the
End of the season
D- Start printing Mackinnon jerseys
E- Bring DiPietro up from Bridge and tell the fans it's like making a trade for a goalie but
It didn't cost assets.
F- For the fans- Start going to games,make the barn loud,loud,loud like years gone by
And let those players and Wang know how badly we want the playoffs

Just for the title of the thread the sky is not falling , It is just the leaky coliseum roof

I pick answer F. LETS GO ISLANDERS!!!!

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07-07-2012, 10:24 AM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptDenisPotvin View Post
I don't look at Boyes as replacing PAP's prouction. Boyes should get us around 40 points IMO but also give us some physical play at winger/center which we desperately need. I think some of the growth of younger players should make up the rest of the pts we will miss from PAP not to mention I think if Okposo ends up winning the 1st line winger job hopefully he can come close to the same outout because of the JT factor.

PAP - 18goals, 49 assists, 67 pts last year

or

Okposo - playing 1st line minutes IMO 28 goals, 35 assists, 63pts (Last year 24 goals, 21 assists, 45pts)
Boyes - IMO 14 goals, 25 assists, 39 pts


We actually lose 7 points in the exchange however we add a physical forward in Boyes that is hopefully going to save us atleast 7 points on the defensive end that PAP gave up.


Lets face it, Vis last year would have been our 2nd best defenseman. Hopefully Hammer and Amac have a bounce back year and even if they both outplay Vis this upcoming year he's much better than any 4th dman we sent out last year. Carkner has to be better than Mottou or Eaton also.

Overall while we didn't improve by leaps and bounces I think we added "Goals" and also sutracted some "goals against" and any time that happens you have to be somewhat happy with the offseason.

Also Nino gave us nothing last year, Grabs gave us half of what he did the year before, Hammer played ok at best, Reasoner was dead weight, Ullstrom and Cizikas should play more extensive minutes/games, Martin hopefully has a more important role and I'm hoping Bailey hits his stride FINALLY.

The potential is there to sneak into the playoffs, whether it happens or not is another story.
Well thought out post.

I would add — we need to make up 7 games from last year to this year for the 8th seed. A bounce here or there alone could give us 7 more wins.

We had 79 points last season. 7 more wins would of had us at 93 points. which has us at 7th place.

With the players added (on paper) we have a stronger blueline for sure. The team is far tougher then before. We are lateral on offensive production more or less though there is nothing to suggest there wouldn't be improvement.

1) Okposo, Bailey and Grabner have to begin the season in October. I am more concerned with KO and JB. They always seem to be late in their starts. Grabner does not have enough of a track record to say he won't make an improvement over last year.

2) I believe Boyes will be better then last year. Projecting a 20 goal season is not out of the question — perhaps more if playing on the top unit.

3) More offense will come from the blueline. Vis and Streit give us a strong 1-2 punch off the blueline and their play leads to goals even if they themselves are not the goal scorers. Carkner is not offense, but he is not just a body either. He is going to be difficult to play against and take a regular shift on the bottom pair. He will protect what may very well be one of our young rookies.

4) I don't believe DiPietro will be a factor and if there is an amnesty, I am guessing the Isles will use it and we will be rid of him. Poulin or Nilsson backing up Nabokov who put up strong GAA and Sv% numbers last season will be solid.

5) The team might be done with free agency — and sure, fans are upset about that —*but I would not rule out a trade. It is too early in the summer to say this is the exact team they will ice in October. Camp invitees, Trade, Waiver pick-ups.... and please — lets not dismiss waiver pick ups...We got Grabner AND Osgood on waivers. Situations come up where interesting and positive things can happen.

It is NOT perfect by any means. I would love to have seen Suter and Parise come here — but if I set myself up believing we had the chance at that I would be setting myself up for disappointment and frustration.

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07-07-2012, 10:32 AM
  #118
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We're going to get more production out of the bottom 6 and defense.... we already had one of the best top lines in the NHL production wise. Some people want to say Boyes is a downgrade from PaP. That's their opinion, and I disagree.... I see him as an UPgrade. We're not going into the season with a three goalie rotation, so that in itself should be an improvement on our GA/G. Having a veteran goalie that knows he's the guy makes a big difference.

For me, the only questions are from the second line. Will Okposo finally fully recover from the shoulder and shut everyone up? Can Bailey finally put it together? Was last year just a sophomore slump for Grabner? Do we go into the season with Frans on the 2nd line, or does Garth find an upgrade?

I think if we can get decent production out of our 2nd line, this team will be a legitimate playoff contender at the break.

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07-07-2012, 10:35 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Corner View Post
forget making playoffs as is right now.

The team has marginally gotten better but others like TorontoTB and a few other are much better.

This ownership is garbage and team will remain just that
i think we have a shot at the playoffs. not going to 'forget' about it, but thanks for the advice.

the Leafs are better? still have a huge hole in net. they didn't improve at all. on the whole, the East lost Garrison, Parise, Parenteau, Jagr and Sullivan to the west, while gaining Visnovsky and Jokinen. Carolina and TB got stronger, but Philly, Pitt, Fla, and NJ got weaker.

frustrated with ownership, but i understand the dilemma that they are in. the team will not remain garbage.

have a nice day!

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07-07-2012, 07:42 PM
  #120
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“If you lose hope, somehow you lose the vitality that keeps moving, you lose that courage to be, that quality that helps you go on in spite of it all. And so today I still have a dream.”
― Martin Luther King Jr. ~♥~

hehehe...

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07-08-2012, 12:18 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by rikker View Post
“If you lose hope, somehow you lose the vitality that keeps moving, you lose that courage to be, that quality that helps you go on in spite of it all. And so today I still have a dream.”
― Martin Luther King Jr. ~♥~

hehehe...
"A fool and his money are soon parted." Ho ho ho...

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07-08-2012, 08:46 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
I haven't seen an owner like Chuck hell bent on destroying his club in good times AND bad since Ballard. Truly, that is saying a mouthfull because Ballard was Satan.
"Dollar Bill" Wirtz waves hi from Hell.
http://deadspin.com/303790/rip-bill-wirtz

He was the worst owner in the NHL period...Charlie needs a few decades to catch up.

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07-08-2012, 08:49 AM
  #123
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Find myself in great agreeance with this post.
Same here...Im just happy we actually got D this offseason.


Thats not saying much....

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07-08-2012, 10:02 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by DaMick View Post
"Dollar Bill" Wirtz waves hi from Hell.
http://deadspin.com/303790/rip-bill-wirtz

He was the worst owner in the NHL period...Charlie needs a few decades to catch up.
Wirtz was bad so I agree, I should have given him honorable mention, but he did throw some money into the roster. He did hang on to Pulford which was eerily similar to Wang keeping Milbury despite his obvious lunacy. His biggest issues though were screwing the fans over regularly starting with the blackouts. There is no way Wirtz beats out Harold though. That guy had been caught laughing about screwing the fans over numerous times.

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07-08-2012, 10:44 AM
  #125
Chapin Landvogt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparksrus3 View Post
Based on this thread,let's pretend it is 6 or 7 months ahead we are 6- 10 points out of playoff spot ,the trade dedline is within sight, Do we
A- Do nothing either way like 2011-2012, with the hopes of resigning the likes of Boyes
(let's say he hits 20 goals and 50 points just a guess) and Streit(after an injury free
Season and 50 points) and Reasoner(4 goals 11 assists BIG bounce back season joke
Here). Nabakov ( 25 -30 wins , 910sv)
B- Trade ( Hey Garth that's spelled T R A D E- exchange of goods or services) for let's say a
Midlevel player for the playoff push
C- Start the call ups from Bridge and alternate these guys with any dead wood vets until the
End of the season
D- Start printing Mackinnon jerseys
E- Bring DiPietro up from Bridge and tell the fans it's like making a trade for a goalie but
It didn't cost assets.
F- For the fans- Start going to games,make the barn loud,loud,loud like years gone by
And let those players and Wang know how badly we want the playoffs

Just for the title of the thread the sky is not falling , It is just the leaky coliseum roof

I pick answer F. LETS GO ISLANDERS!!!!
Emotions aside, if this team is NOT in a playoff spot by the trade deadline and is as far out as you wrote (3-5 victories), the best thing Snow can do for this franchise in its current state is trade all of the UFAs/RFAs he is not planning with in future season and HAS signed to a new contract.

All of them. In Streit, Nabakov and Visnovsky, he has a few potential big-time selling points.

A and C would be the non-intelligent paths to take in your scenario.

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