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Free Agent Frenzy Part VII: It's Still Only July Edition

View Poll Results: What should the Rangers do with their two 2013 3rd round picks?
Trade both picks 15 36.59%
Trade one pick, but keep the other 10 24.39%
Hang on to both picks 16 39.02%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-06-2012, 05:50 PM
  #326
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Those teams aren't done yet either...

Rangers were a goal or two away from being ousted by Ott. The road to the Cup won't be easier when they meet Philly/Pitt/Boston in the first round next year...
We weren't far away from knocking off New Jersey though either.

All things being even I expect Pittsburgh to be No. 1 in the East whether we get Nash, Ryan or anybody else. They are the team to beat next year. I don't think there is going to be another implosion like happened with the Flyers last year. Fleury will get back on his game and Crosby and Malkin are the two best forwards in hockey. Their D is their weak spot. The Rangers play a game that can give them a lot of trouble.

As far as Philly--Bryzgalov did not impress me at all. If he can't get it together--they may do well in the regular season but they won't be in the equation in the playoffs.

Rask had the starting job coming out of camp two years ago for the Bruins. He stumbled and Thomas took over and led them to the cup. It's his job again.

Goaltending is a huge x factor. As long as Henrik is healthy it's a major advantage we have over other teams especially when we're getting a solid defensive effort.

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Old
07-06-2012, 05:55 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Killem Dafoe View Post
Semin will make at least 6Mil a year and he'll find a team who will sign him to a 5+ year contract ::cough:: Devils

imo
A multi year deal for Semin is very likely.

I am more than a bit amused by the desire by many to pick up a free agent on the cheap. Let's sign Semin or Doan, etc to a 1 or 2 year deal? This off season we are learning that the market is moving and many players want (and teams are giving) long term deals. Doan is what 35 or 6? My guess is.... should he leave Phoenix he'll request a 4-5 year deal in the neighborhood of 5.5 per. My only point is that we shouldn't count on acquiring players with some useful life paying and expect to pay a short term rental price.

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Old
07-06-2012, 05:58 PM
  #328
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Nash not Crosby or Malkin or Stamkos?

Put him on the Rangers and he will compete for the league MVP and for the Art Ross. I understand he'd have to compete for it for multiple years to be in the class of those guys, but maybe he will.

I believe this guy is that good. Howson does too. He's making a statement to Nash: "This is what I think of you. A trade for you in your prime must be a mega-deal. We want you here and will only take the most because that is what you and we deserve." Maybe this gets Nash to feel like he should stay afterall.

It can't start with Kreider and McD, but there must be others he could want from the roster. Get it done...

...oh and...go ahead, sign Semin too. Everything people are saying about him they said about Kovalchuk. Semin is ready to break out. At the very least I'm sure he would love to stick it to Ovie and the caps all year. He walked the Hunter walk. He can make it here. If he doesn't then trade him to the wings at the deadline.

I'm with the other posters...with these guys in the lineup it lets quality play in the 3 and 4. No more Mitchell all night is right (or guys just like him). Need multiple stars who play the right way to win it. Can't just have the play. Need the players too. I'm sure Torts knows this. It took both in Tampa to win the cup. He has them doing things the right way. Now he needs the guys who do the right things. Jersey didn't have enough of them.

GET NASH.

In the top league in the world you've gotta have the will and the skill. The best mix wins.

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Old
07-06-2012, 06:00 PM
  #329
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Of course, their holes are harder to fill. They do everything backwards here. Where else do you leave the most important and most difficult positions to fill, top line forwards, to free agency and trade?

What other team has gone more than 30 years without drafting and developing a young homegrown first line forward (one that they kept past their rookie year, anyway)?

Completely illogical approach to roster construction here.

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Old
07-06-2012, 06:03 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Of course, their holes are harder to fill. They do everything backwards here. Where else do you leave the most important and most difficult positions to fill, top line forwards, to free agency and trade?

What other team has gone more than 30 years without drafting and developing a young homegrown first line forward (one that they kept past their rookie year, anyway)?

Completely illogical approach to roster construction here.
Its not illogical, they built the team from the net out(plus they only started doing it since post lockout). They can't build top to bottom because they can't get those elite draft picks for forwards.

Red Wings built their team the same way, New Jersey built their team the same way, Boston built their team the same way.

We can't build our team like Pitt, or Edmonton.

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07-06-2012, 06:04 PM
  #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Of course, their holes are harder to fill. They do everything backwards here. Where else do you leave the most important and most difficult positions to fill, top line forwards, to free agency and trade?

What other team has gone more than 30 years without drafting and developing a young homegrown first line forward (one that they kept past their rookie year, anyway)?

Completely illogical approach to roster construction here.
I blame that on being just competitive enough to rarely ever land in the top 5, even during the dark ages. That and our draft record wasn't the best before the lockout. Cherepanov's death really set us back and continues to this day. Also they should have done the fire sale earlier.

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Old
07-06-2012, 06:07 PM
  #332
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Nash competing for the Art Ross?


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Old
07-06-2012, 06:18 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Of course, their holes are harder to fill. They do everything backwards here. Where else do you leave the most important and most difficult positions to fill, top line forwards, to free agency and trade?

What other team has gone more than 30 years without drafting and developing a young homegrown first line forward (one that they kept past their rookie year, anyway)?

Completely illogical approach to roster construction here.
We have to find those kind of players. Hopefully, Stepan and Kreider can eventually become those players. Stepan isn't too far off IMO. He's already one of the better 2nd liners in the league. He's only 22. 51 point sophomore campaign. 30+ assists and just under 20 goals. If he can become something like Joe Pavelski (20+ goals and 40+ assists) he'd pretty much be a top line center. Not too far off from that.

I think we have some first line potential in the system and on the team. The two mentioned above are the best candidates. Callahan is a tweener (okay 1st liner, great 2nd liner). Hagelin has a chance. He's a perfect 2nd liner in the future, but if he works on his hands and shooting, he could take a jump in development. Miller some chance, but most likely a 2nd/3rd liner.

What this team really needs is a Nathan Horton type trade. He was such a pivotal piece to Boston being so well. That type of player with that kind of trade is the piece this team is truly missing.

Sather is trying to do that with Nash or Ryan. Both GM's and Sather aren't budging from their offers.

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07-06-2012, 06:22 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Semin is not taking a one year deal. He just took two consecutive one year deals because he wanted to stay in Washington with Ovechkin.

Hossa took a one year deal to play in Detroit and try and win a Cup. Somehow, I doubt Semin is nearly as driven by that desire.
Someone said no one takes a 1 year deal in their prime at UFA. I was just coming up with examples.

That being said, there's always going to be a catch, a mitigating factor. Semin is just reminding me of Zherdev alot right now. He's getting dragged through the mud a bit, and it's largely unfounded. He's almost getting the scapegoat treatment for the culture and losing in Washington.

Lots of absolutes today. This is an odd free agency summer, it's not going to be as easily predicted.

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Old
07-06-2012, 06:27 PM
  #335
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We're not getting Nash unless it's on Sather's terms. Howson is trying to save face before being relieved of his duties. That means we're keeping McDonagh, Kreider, Stepan, and Del Zotto. I honestly believe Glen Sather has learned his lesson with trading away youth.

Chill out folks

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07-06-2012, 06:27 PM
  #336
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Holding today's Rangers to the previous 25 years of history is misleading. They've drafted and broke in Amonte, Weight, Kovalev and Savard within the last 30 years. The team got caught up in chasing the cup with free agents and deadline trades. At the same time, they drafted poorly until the mid 2000's.

Seems like they got the draft right with Cheriponov and Kreider, about as well as the Wings have done in the first in that time frame... and it's not like we've busted otherwise, just drafted mostly D's. Miller is looking good too, but it's early.

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07-06-2012, 06:27 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
Its not illogical, they built the team from the net out(plus they only started doing it since post lockout). They can't build top to bottom because they can't get those elite draft picks for forwards.

Red Wings built their team the same way, New Jersey built their team the same way, Boston built their team the same way.

We can't build our team like Pitt, or Edmonton.
Yes, exactly. Illogical. It's illogical to not do what is necessary to put yourself in the best possible position to win. It's not a matter of can or can't. It's a matter of will or won't.

New Jersey and Boston are not good examples of anything. The Bruins and Devils both got through to the Finals in very strange years in the Eastern Conference, when the best team was not at full strength.

And how did the Red Wings build their team from the net out? What the Rangers and Red Wings have in common is that both teams struck gold late in the draft. The difference is that the Red Wings did it twice, and unfortunately, forwards of that caliber are simply more valuable than goaltenders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
I blame that on being just competitive enough to rarely ever land in the top 5, even during the dark ages. That and our draft record wasn't the best before the lockout. Cherepanov's death really set us back and continues to this day. Also they should have done the fire sale earlier.
Maybe they shouldn't have kept trying to make the team just competitive enough to win absolutely nothing of significance, and then this problem wouldn't exist..

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07-06-2012, 06:28 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by I Eat Crow View Post
We're not getting Nash unless it's on Sather's terms. Howson is trying to save face before being relieved of his duties. That means we're keeping McDonagh, Kreider, Stepan, and Del Zotto. I honestly believe Glen Sather has learned his lesson with trading away youth.

Chill out folks

But you're not seeing the full picture: Nash on the Rangers = Automatic 150-160 PTS!


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07-06-2012, 06:31 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
We have to find those kind of players. Hopefully, Stepan and Kreider can eventually become those players. Stepan isn't too far off IMO. He's already one of the better 2nd liners in the league. He's only 22. 51 point sophomore campaign. 30+ assists and just under 20 goals. If he can become something like Joe Pavelski (20+ goals and 40+ assists) he'd pretty much be a top line center. Not too far off from that.

I think we have some first line potential in the system and on the team. The two mentioned above are the best candidates. Callahan is a tweener (okay 1st liner, great 2nd liner). Hagelin has a chance. He's a perfect 2nd liner in the future, but if he works on his hands and shooting, he could take a jump in development. Miller some chance, but most likely a 2nd/3rd liner.

What this team really needs is a Nathan Horton type trade. He was such a pivotal piece to Boston being so well. That type of player with that kind of trade is the piece this team is truly missing.

Sather is trying to do that with Nash or Ryan. Both GM's and Sather aren't budging from their offers.
That's where we differ. I think we have zero first line potential in the system and on the team. I think we have loads of great second line potential, which is nice. It just won't get you a championship.

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07-06-2012, 06:35 PM
  #340
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But you're not seeing the full picture: Nash on the Rangers = Automatic 150-160 PTS!

Nash is exactly what he looks like; a star player that has moreorless been by himself for the past two years or so. He was one of Team Canada's best players in the 2010Winter Olympics. I'm not saying he'll be an Art Ross contender or anything, but I'd be interested to see what he would do with some talent playing around him.

That cap number is still scary to me unless the cap doesn't go down after the new CBA is drafted.

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07-06-2012, 06:35 PM
  #341
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Yes, exactly. Illogical. It's illogical to not do what is necessary to put yourself in the best possible position to win. It's not a matter of can or can't. It's a matter of will or won't.

New Jersey and Boston are not good examples of anything. The Bruins and Devils both got through to the Finals in very strange years in the Eastern Conference, when the best team was not at full strength.

And how did the Red Wings build their team from the net out? What the Rangers and Red Wings have in common is that both teams struck gold late in the draft. The difference is that the Red Wings did it twice, and unfortunately, forwards of that caliber are simply more valuable than goaltenders.



Maybe they shouldn't have kept trying to make the team just competitive enough to win absolutely nothing of significance, and then this problem wouldn't exist..
Alright, lets make something crystal clear, cause your being VERY vague. Are you implying that the Rangers should tank for top draft picks. Is that the approach you wish to take?

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07-06-2012, 06:39 PM
  #342
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For an update on the Coyotes situation, for those who want Shane Doan:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle4393492/

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07-06-2012, 06:39 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
Alright, lets make something crystal clear, cause your being VERY vague. Are you implying that the Rangers should tank for top draft picks. Is that the approach you wish to take?
Besides trade, sucking it up for a couple years for top 5 picks is the only way to get first line talent in your system nowadays. If that wasn't true, a lot of scouts would be out of jobs for not finding that diamond in the rough that was taken in the 20-25 range overall rather than earlier in the draft.

Player development is a fickle game, but there isn't too much top line talent being drafted outside of the top 5 picks of the draft lately.

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07-06-2012, 06:40 PM
  #344
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That's where we differ. I think we have zero first line potential in the system and on the team. I think we have loads of great second line potential, which is nice. It just won't get you a championship.
Chris Kreider?

The guy is a possible 65-75 point player...which as has been proven many, many times, is a first line player.

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07-06-2012, 06:41 PM
  #345
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Alright, lets make something crystal clear, cause your being VERY vague. Are you implying that Rangers should tank for top draft picks. Is that the approach you wish to take?
I'm not being vague, I just forget that some of you guys haven't been here that long and don't know my long-held beliefs on these things.

No, I'm not implying that the Rangers should tank for top draft picks. I don't even want to use the word tank at all, because that's not what it would have been. Getting high draft picks does not necessarily mean that you're tanking. But, yes, acquiring high draft picks...that's the approach the Rangers should have taken when the time was right to do so. That window came and went, and it's far too late in the process to do that now. But some of the serious issues affecting the team today are a direct result of the refusal to allow the team to be part of that cyclical nature of the league.

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07-06-2012, 06:42 PM
  #346
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Besides trade, sucking it up for a couple years for top 5 picks is the only way to get first line talent in your system nowadays. If that wasn't true, a lot of scouts would be out of jobs for not finding that diamond in the rough that was taken in the 20-25 range overall rather than earlier in the draft.

Player development is a fickle game, but there isn't too much top line talent being drafted outside of the top 5 picks of the draft lately.
That is exactly my point, and why the Rangers build the way they do.

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07-06-2012, 06:45 PM
  #347
NYR Sting
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Chris Kreider?

The guy is a possible 65-75 point player...which as has been proven many, many times, is a first line player.
Not in my opinion, but I sure as hell hope that I'm wrong. That would certainly solve a lot of issues.

Also, 65-75 points is a "first line" number. But when you're trying to win a championship, you want to have players in every niche that are better than most of the other players filling the same niche for other teams. 65 points for a first liner means you're either the least valuable player on the first line for a good team, or the most valuable first liner on a not so great team (though there are always exceptions, as the Bruins showed).

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07-06-2012, 06:45 PM
  #348
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I'm not being vague, I just forget that some of you guys haven't been here that long and don't know my long-held beliefs on these things.

No, I'm not implying that the Rangers should tank for top draft picks. I don't even want to use the word tank at all, because that's not what it would have been. Getting high draft picks does not necessarily mean that you're tanking. But, yes, acquiring high draft picks...that's the approach the Rangers should have taken when the time was right to do so. That window came and went, and it's far too late in the process to do that now. But some of the serious issues affecting the team today are a direct result of the refusal to allow the team to be part of that cyclical nature of the league.
Dude the only other way your going to get top draft picks other then tanking is trading quality. Do you want to give up Marc Staal? Hank?

Cause that is what your looking at if you want to pick #1 overall. On top of that, its not like you can do that every year. You got to be very creative to pull it off, and right opportunity has to come.

Red Wings have proven you don't need #1 draft picks to contend. New Jersey was competitive forever without #1 draft picks.

Not to mention, you run the risk of some of those #1 draft picks busting.

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07-06-2012, 06:49 PM
  #349
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Dude the only other way your going to get top draft picks other then tanking is trading quality. Do you want to give up Marc Staal? Hank?

Cause that is what your looking at if you want to pick #1 overall.
Red Wings have proven you don't need #1 draft picks to contend. New Jersey was competitive forever without #1 draft picks.

Not to mention, you run the risk of some of those #1 draft picks busting.
We must have different definitions of the word tanking.

Playing a team full of young players or role player veterans and not winning many games is not my idea of tanking, nor do I believe there is anything wrong with that if that happens to be the stage of the rebuilding process that your franchise finds itself in. That's the place the Rangers should have found themselves in several years ago. They chose to ignore that phase.

The Red Wings have proven that for many years, they had a far greater understanding of how to scout Sweden and Russia than any other team. That's about it. The Devils did it during an era where you didn't need top offensive talent to win. Despite Boston's win two years ago, I'd argue that elite offensive talent is still a necessity. Elite offensive talent, most of the time, is what's valued the most, and what goes at the top of the draft.

And there's very little risk of #1 picks busting. Very, very few ever have.

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07-06-2012, 06:49 PM
  #350
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
Dude the only other way your going to get top draft picks other then tanking is trading quality. Do you want to give up Marc Staal? Hank?

Cause that is what your looking at if you want to pick #1 overall. On top of that, its not like you can do that every year. You got to be very creative to pull it off, and right opportunity has to come.

Red Wings have proven you don't need #1 draft picks to contend. New Jersey was competitive forever without #1 draft picks.

Not to mention, you run the risk of some of those #1 draft picks busting.
He's not saying we should do it now.

The Rangers were an awful team before Jagr and could've gotten a franchise first line forward.

Sting is very outspoken in his feeling that getting Jagr set the franchise back years. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I do agree pre-Jagr we should've been going for top picks instead of doing what we actually did.

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