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Alex Semin - Don't shoot! (update: signed with Carolina, July 26)

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Old
07-06-2012, 06:19 PM
  #76
CS
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
Doan isn't going to come on a 1-2 yer deal though. What if you have to sign him to a 4/5 year $20/25 mil deal? That would be a 35+ contract.
Doan: 4 year deal

2012-13: 6.50m
2013-14: 5.50m
2014-15: 3.50m
2015-16: 2.50m

CAP HIT: 4.50m/year

I'd do it, 35+ contract or not.

He's also played 1198 NHL games. He's missed 38.


Last edited by CS: 07-06-2012 at 06:26 PM.
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07-06-2012, 06:29 PM
  #77
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Why do flyer fans realisitically think we can get a guy like DOAN? If he is cup motivated don't you think there are teams closer to that than us that he would go to? The same could be said for SUTER and Parise. WE are not getting semin or doan or any other impact FA this off season.

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07-06-2012, 06:34 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Doan: 4 year deal

2012-13: 6.50m
2013-14: 5.50m
2014-15: 3.50m
2015-16: 2.50m

CAP HIT: 4.50m/year

I'd do it, 35+ contract or not.

He's also played 1198 NHL games. He's missed 38.
Phoenix or someone else wouldn't give him that?

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07-06-2012, 07:15 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Doan: 4 year deal

2012-13: 6.50m
2013-14: 5.50m
2014-15: 3.50m
2015-16: 2.50m

CAP HIT: 4.50m/year

I'd do it, 35+ contract or not.

He's also played 1198 NHL games. He's missed 38.

Look at how fast Knuble hit the wall. A 4 year contract won't end well.

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07-06-2012, 07:46 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
Why do flyer fans realisitically think we can get a guy like DOAN? If he is cup motivated don't you think there are teams closer to that than us that he would go to? The same could be said for SUTER and Parise. WE are not getting semin or doan or any other impact FA this off season.
Why wouldn't he want to go to Philadelphia? Flyers had over 100 pts in the regular season last year and their young players are getting better, including an emerging superstar he could play on the same line with. This team isn't that far from being serious contenders at all.

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07-06-2012, 07:49 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by clodejirew View Post
Why wouldn't he want to go to Philadelphia? Flyers had over 100 pts in the regular season last year and their young players are getting better, including an emerging superstar he could play on the same line with. This team isn't that far from being serious contenders at all.
Boston
Pittsburgh
Vancouver
LA
St Louis
Rangers


are all teams that could say the same, and to be honest are closer than we are to winning a cup. Plus his heart is in Phoenix and he has been in the west coast his whole life. There is literally nothing to connect him to philly at all.

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07-06-2012, 08:24 PM
  #82
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Doan isnt coming to a East team IMO

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07-06-2012, 08:36 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
Boston
Pittsburgh
Vancouver
LA
St Louis
Rangers


are all teams that could say the same, and to be honest are closer than we are to winning a cup. Plus his heart is in Phoenix and he has been in the west coast his whole life. There is literally nothing to connect him to philly at all.
There is way too much parity in the league to claim that any of those teams are definitively closer to winning a Cup than the Flyers.

The way I see it is that the NHL is split into tiers at this point:

Tier 1: Cup contenders-- Penguins, Flyers, Canucks, Kings, Blues, Rangers, Bruins, maybe a couple others
Tier 2: Playoff hopefuls
Tier 3: Cellar dwellers


Within those tiers, you cant definitively distinguish which teams are closer to the Cup than the others. So many teams are capable of winning each year.



That said, I dont think Doan will come to Philly

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Old
07-06-2012, 08:38 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
Why do flyer fans realisitically think we can get a guy like DOAN? If he is cup motivated don't you think there are teams closer to that than us that he would go to? The same could be said for SUTER and Parise. WE are not getting semin or doan or any other impact FA this off season.
Impact free agents often look for a place where they can be the final piece. If you put Doan or Semin on the Flyers why wouldn't they be favorites to win a cup as much as anyone else? Both players are looking for multi year contracts so why wouldn't they want to sign with an org that plays to win every season and off season?

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07-06-2012, 08:44 PM
  #85
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Look at how fast Knuble hit the wall. A 4 year contract won't end well.
Knuble really needed to play on a scoring line. WAS's 3rd and 4th line grinders were simple better then him.

Doan's game can be effective as a third liner in the last year or two of his deal. I wouldn't have a problem giving him 3 years, giving him 4 years would be dicey but I doubt he would hurt you even if his production declined.

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07-06-2012, 10:12 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
Impact free agents often look for a place where they can be the final piece. If you put Doan or Semin on the Flyers why wouldn't they be favorites to win a cup as much as anyone else? Both players are looking for multi year contracts so why wouldn't they want to sign with an org that plays to win every season and off season?
Semin or Doan are not going to take pay cuts to come to philly. The only way they come to philly is if we offer them the most money. This is something I doubt happens. I think we give players way to much credit when it comes to winning as a means of motivation. There are plenty examples of players doing deals knowing winning is not the primary objective.

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07-06-2012, 10:19 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
Why do flyer fans realisitically think we can get a guy like DOAN? If he is cup motivated don't you think there are teams closer to that than us that he would go to? The same could be said for SUTER and Parise. WE are not getting semin or doan or any other impact FA this off season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
Semin or Doan are not going to take pay cuts to come to philly. The only way they come to philly is if we offer them the most money. This is something I doubt happens. I think we give players way to much credit when it comes to winning as a means of motivation. There are plenty examples of players doing deals knowing winning is not the primary objective.
way to completely contradict yourself
Obviously every player has different ways of deciding where they want to play. I don't see why the flyers wouldn't be offering a lot of money for either of these guys. It was reported that they threw the biggest $ offer at both Parise and Suter...

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07-06-2012, 10:34 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by clodejirew View Post
way to completely contradict yourself
Obviously every player has different ways of deciding where they want to play. I don't see why the flyers wouldn't be offering a lot of money for either of these guys. It was reported that they threw the biggest $ offer at both Parise and Suter...
No actually I didnt contradict myself. I said we give players way too much credit that winning is a huge factor in their decision making. And if their deciison is to win their are better teams to sign with that are more cup ready than us.


Look at ray whitney, Do you think he signed with Dallas to win? What about Jordan Staal? He could have signed that 60 million extension with Pitt but he wanted more limelight. Then you have suter and Parise signing with Minny a franchise that really was a blip on the map until the 4th.

Semin is enterining the prime of his career and is a UFA. He is now the best FA available and it can be assume he has less than 10 years remaining in his nhl career. That means 10 years of being able to make the most amount of money he can before retiring. I doubt very much Semin is going to risk the few years left he has in his career to not sign for maximal contract value. Can the flyers offer that? Doubtful.

Doan. A player who has made a bit of coin in his day and knows his playing days are winding down. He can still stay in phoenix and get paid very well which is probably ideal to him. He is more important to phoenix than to any other team and that plays a major role.

Fans have a very narrowminded view of what determines a FA intrests. It either comes down to money or winning the cup. Both play large roles, but at diffrent times in their careers.

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07-07-2012, 11:37 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
Why do flyer fans realisitically think we can get a guy like DOAN? If he is cup motivated don't you think there are teams closer to that than us that he would go to? The same could be said for SUTER and Parise. WE are not getting semin or doan or any other impact FA this off season.
You think Suter and Parise went to Minnesota because they are closer to a Cup than we are?

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07-07-2012, 11:52 AM
  #90
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You think Suter and Parise went to Minnesota because they are closer to a Cup than we are?
No. Parise and Suter took less money to have the lifestyle they wanted playing in minny. Doan will probably want the same. Winning Cups is not the end all be all for FA's.

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07-07-2012, 11:53 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
Boston
Pittsburgh
Vancouver
LA
St Louis
Rangers


are all teams that could say the same, and to be honest are closer than we are to winning a cup. Plus his heart is in Phoenix and he has been in the west coast his whole life. There is literally nothing to connect him to philly at all.
One little interjection: the only reason LA is on that list is because they won the Cup. I doubt they were on anyone's list last year at this time, and I wouldn't be surprised if the coming season's victor is a dark horse, too. I know you are talking in relative terms to how the teams look on paper, but LA's run really did show that the Cinderella stories can happen.

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07-07-2012, 11:59 AM
  #92
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okay.. nobody said it was... were simply discussing the possibility that either of them could come to Philly. And there are definitely reasons why free agents would choose philly over other teams.

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07-07-2012, 12:01 PM
  #93
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One little interjection: the only reason LA is on that list is because they won the Cup. I doubt they were on anyone's list last year at this time, and I wouldn't be surprised if the coming season's victor is a dark horse, too. I know you are talking in relative terms to how the teams look on paper, but LA's run really did show that the Cinderella stories can happen.
I admit I watched about 60 regualr season Kings games this season. They had 2 huge personal moves that changed their season. 1. They hired Sutter 2. They acquired Carter. WHen they got Carter the top line started to play unreal. Also the teams at the top of the West were pretty weak IMO. Vancouver had the weakest division and were bitten by the injury bug. St. Louis was hurt by Halak's injury and after that the west was very tight. The diffrence was Quick. Plain and simple. Jonathan Quick was so amazing this season and his postseason he just took it to a new level. We have seen this type of performance from tenders in the past where they carry a team on their back a la Hasek in 99 or Roy in 93. In a season where no team really stood out from the pack a hot goalie can make all the diffrence.

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07-07-2012, 12:29 PM
  #94
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okay.. nobody said it was... were simply discussing the possibility that either of them could come to Philly. And there are definitely reasons why free agents would choose philly over other teams.
I think the reason why Philly was a destination for FA's in the past was because of Snider's commitment to pay and to win. The Salary Cap era has curbed that ability to spend but the commitment to win is their. Other than that their is no advantage of playing in philly unless you like the limelight of a non traditional hockey market and the constant scrutiny of playing under the watchful eye of the philly media.

I would say after some of the treatment of some of the more popular players in Philly lately has given us a less than desirable reputation amongst players in the NHL. Also something we have seen in Minny where 2 players took less money to play with a team has not happened in Philly. We have never attracted FA's that have come here to play for less money. WE have signed players who were already with the team that took favorable cap hits such as richards and carter but that is it.

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07-07-2012, 01:04 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
I think the reason why Philly was a destination for FA's in the past was because of Snider's commitment to pay and to win. The Salary Cap era has curbed that ability to spend but the commitment to win is their. Other than that their is no advantage of playing in philly unless you like the limelight of a non traditional hockey market and the constant scrutiny of playing under the watchful eye of the philly media.

I would say after some of the treatment of some of the more popular players in Philly lately has given us a less than desirable reputation amongst players in the NHL. Also something we have seen in Minny where 2 players took less money to play with a team has not happened in Philly. We have never attracted FA's that have come here to play for less money. WE have signed players who were already with the team that took favorable cap hits such as richards and carter but that is it.
To be fair, that's Parise's hometown, and a few hours from Suter's. Kind of similar to Bobby Ryan publicly saying he'd welcome a trade to the Flyers. It's also not like they took a lot less money. Cliff Lee took less money from the Phils, but it was still over $100 million.

Money is usually most important, but when you get to a certain point other things start to matter. If you're offered $100 million to play somewhere, and you're hometown team is giving you $98 million I'm sure that extra $2 million doesn't mean as much.

If the Wild were offering them 5 years $30 million, they're not taking it.

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07-07-2012, 01:10 PM
  #96
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To be fair, that's Parise's hometown, and a few hours from Suter's. Kind of similar to Bobby Ryan publicly saying he'd welcome a trade to the Flyers. It's also not like they took a lot less money. Cliff Lee took less money from the Phils, but it was still over $100 million.

Money is usually most important, but when you get to a certain point other things start to matter. If you're offered $100 million to play somewhere, and you're hometown team is giving you $98 million I'm sure that extra $2 million doesn't mean as much.

If the Wild were offering them 5 years $30 million, they're not taking it.
Cliff Lee is the only FA athlete I've ever seen come to Philly on a discount. And that is why he is one of the most beloved figures in Philadelphia.

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07-07-2012, 01:13 PM
  #97
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Cliff Lee is the only FA athlete I've ever seen come to Philly on a discount. And that is why he is one of the most beloved figures in Philadelphia.
And if memory serves me right, his wife liked the Philadelphia area as well ?

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07-07-2012, 01:16 PM
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And if memory serves me right, his wife liked the Philadelphia area as well ?
Yes, the opposite of Ryan Madson's wife.

Also when Texas played the yankees, the yankee fans treated LEE and his WIFE very poorly and said some unflattering things to them. Lee's wife talked about that as a reason why the chose to come back to philly.

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07-07-2012, 02:03 PM
  #99
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I'm not sure a guy who plays uptempo offense-first hockey and isn't particularly rigorous in the defensive end would fit on a Laviolette team.



Jeez, who wouldn't want a talent of this kind if the price is right.

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07-07-2012, 03:30 PM
  #100
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I'm not sure a guy who plays uptempo offense-first hockey and isn't particularly rigorous in the defensive end would fit on a Laviolette team.



Jeez, who wouldn't want a talent of this kind if the price is right.
But he is rigorous in the defensive end. He even throws questionable hits on bigger guys. He just is enigmatic and doesn't always seem to try that hard.


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