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07-06-2012, 12:58 PM
  #751
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
Yep. I do not like Semin, but I think signing him is better for the team overall than trading pieces for Ryan.
yeah. Not sure I would give him a multi year deal. That is what he wants. The more I think about it, the less I like the idea of giving up more assets at forward to acquire Ryan or Nash. They have already weakened themselves scoring wise on the wings and I would rather not trade 2 more forwards to acqure Ryan.
Dont get me wrong I like Ryan a lot, but at this point after losing JVR and Jagr we cant afford to lose any more depth on the top 6.

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07-06-2012, 01:19 PM
  #752
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
People act like he's playing on some crap line with bad players, and Giroux will magically allow him to finally blossom. That's not the case. I'm tired of trading picks and young players, especially when they've demonstrated that they can be very good, so we can get stars approaching the wrong end of their prime. Why not keep Voracek, stop shaking up the core by moving notable pieces every year, and try to build a team for once?

Edit: I know, Ryan is already in his prime and will be for a few more years. But we have yet to see the best of Voracek, I believe. Considering what Voracek has shown, I'd rather hold onto him.
This. A thousand times this.

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07-06-2012, 01:20 PM
  #753
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Originally Posted by sm0ka47 View Post
Because scoring goals isn't the only skill set in the NHL. The advantage defensively is Voracek. Ryan floats and doesn't really work hard in his own zone. How is Voracek not proven? He's already proven he can atleast put up 40-50 points and be responsible defensively. He can continue to get better. He's only 22 years old. Ryan is about to reach his peak years in terms of goal scoring. It would be nice to have him with Giroux but its not really a need when there are options in free agency. Not for what Murray is asking.
thank you.

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07-06-2012, 08:12 PM
  #754
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does anyone think holmgren's starting to regret some things at this point?

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07-06-2012, 08:17 PM
  #755
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
does anyone think holmgren's starting to regret some things at this point?
I hope not. Well, nm, I guess I don't care if he regrets them, but I sure am glad he didn't do just about anything differently stuff.

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07-06-2012, 08:50 PM
  #756
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
I hope not. Well, nm, I guess I don't care if he regrets them, but I sure am glad he didn't do just about anything differently stuff.
What does he have to regret at this point?

JVR for Schenn filled a need and you have to see how they play going forward.
Carle's contract couldn't be justified based on what they already have committed to d contracts.
Jagr wanted to sign with a team that he could get top line minutes and top PP unit time.
Rusty is a solid pick up. I'd take Rusty over Asham, Pyatt, Poni, Prust (based on contract).
Gervais...meh...he'll b a safety if Bourdon or Gus can't progress and hold a spot.

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Old
07-06-2012, 09:12 PM
  #757
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Ryan barely plays with Getzlaf or Perry anymore. They are trying to balance their scoring so he was most frequently pair with Nick Bonino and DSP this year. 2010 he played most of his shifts with Brad Winchester and Brandon Mcmillan. He also saw 2nd unit power play time according to Duck fans. I wouldn't say 50 goals is out of the question, but unlikely. I could see him score 40-45 though in his first year with Giroux if he comes over
Perry and Getzlaf have been Ryan's most common forward linemates every year since 2008-2009, including last year. You can look that up on behindthenet.ca if you want to.

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07-06-2012, 09:20 PM
  #758
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
Perry and Getzlaf have been Ryan's most common forward linemates every year since 2008-2009, including last year. You can look that up on behindthenet.ca if you want to.
Won't say your wrong, but they did experiment with Ryan at C a lot last season, and bumped him around when he was slumping...same with Getz. Using your own source, it does indeed say Ryan's most common linemates were Getz and Perry, although Ryan is nowhere to be seen on Perry's top 3 linemates. Ryan is also listed as a frequent linemate of Kyle Palmieri and Matt Clark, while Pat Maroon's top 2 linemates were also Getz and Perry.

Perry's always the 1st line constant, and Getzlaf is almost a guarantee to be his C. Ryan is anything but.

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07-06-2012, 09:26 PM
  #759
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
does anyone think holmgren's starting to regret some things at this point?
NOPE ! I think Homer is a lot smarter than many keyboard cowboys on here give him credit for....He cannot read a players mind nor a GMs mind etc...Its all about timing in this FA game, and you need some luck as well....I for one have no problem with Parise or Suter etc not coming here.Like to see Semin here for 2 years, but i think he and his agents realize its his time for a BIG payday which will require a long time deal....Weber would certainly fill a HUGE hole, and i gotta believe that Homer is working on it, but he is standing firm on NOT giving up his 2 fine youngsters in Couts and Shenn, same goes for the Nash and Ryan sweepstakes.Hopefully Homer will hold firm and keep our fine young core together.....Getting Rusty was a great move in my view.

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07-06-2012, 09:28 PM
  #760
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Even as a Bruins fan, part of me is hoping you guys get Ryan. A Ryan-Giroux combo would be unreal, and ideally, they'd crap all over the Penguins together, and isn't that what we all really wanna see?

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Old
07-06-2012, 09:31 PM
  #761
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Won't say your wrong, but they did experiment with Ryan at C a lot last season, and bumped him around when he was slumping...same with Getz. Using your own source, it does indeed say Ryan's most common linemates were Getz and Perry, although Ryan is nowhere to be seen on Perry's top 3 linemates. Ryan is also listed as a frequent linemate of Kyle Palmieri and Matt Clark, while Pat Maroon's top 2 linemates were also Getz and Perry.

Perry's always the 1st line constant, and Getzlaf is almost a guarantee to be his C. Ryan is anything but.
I'm not denying that Ryan got bumped around a lot last year. I know that.

I dispute that he "barely" played with Perry and Getzlaf anymore.

Through all the shuffling, Bobby Ryan's most common linemates were still Getzlaf and Perry. Getzlaf and Perry's most common forward was still Ryan. And that's been true since 2008.

Voracek got shuffled around a lot last year too. And through all of that his most common linemate was Max Talbot (by far). After that it was a struggling Danny Briere, Matt Read, JVR, Couturier. Nothing like 1st line quality.

If you give a replacement level player Bobby Ryan's linemates and ice time vs Voracek's linemates and ice time, he should put up bigger numbers when he's in Bobby Ryan's shoes. In my mind, that supports the case that the difference between the two is not as vast as the first glance indicates. I think a lot of people who are gung-ho for Ryan are willing to give up too much because they not looking deeper than surface level.

If we're looking at what has already been, you take Bobby Ryan 10 times out of 10. That's easy. But the tricky part is handicapping new scenarios in the future. If you are humble enough to take an honest look at it, things are a lot murkier and the divisions less clear.


Last edited by Damaged Goods: 07-06-2012 at 09:47 PM.
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07-07-2012, 02:36 AM
  #762
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I can't help but thing the ship has sailed re: Ryan to the Flyers. The obvious move always seemed to be Carter for Ryan; Flyers had too many C's and tried them all as wingers, Ducks wanted a C. But looking back while I'd have done that deal in a heartbeat I definitely would NOT swap Jake & Couts for Ryan.

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Old
07-07-2012, 07:46 AM
  #763
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GMs know the Flyers have a bounty of assets and are trying to get the lion's share of them in any deal. Homer has been great by standing pat despite what is being dangled in front of him.

Would rather keep Voracek and other assets.

It has to be hard for the organization that has a relationship with the Ryans to stand pat until the right deal for Ryan comes along and not get exploited.

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07-07-2012, 08:06 AM
  #764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
GMs know the Flyers have a bounty of assets and are trying to get the lion's share of them in any deal. Homer has been great by standing pat despite what is being dangled in front of him.

Would rather keep Voracek and other assets.

It has to be hard for the organization that has a relationship with the Ryans to stand pat until the right deal for Ryan comes along and not get exploited.
It seems like it is kind of like a Mexican standoff type-deal. Ryan apparently wants out of Anaheim and the Flyers want Ryan. Who is going to blink first? The biggest issue in this IMO is how serious Ryan is about wanting out. If he just is unhappy then the Flyers will have to pay market price or above. If he is going to refuse to play or something, the Flyers may be able to strong arm the Ducks (but I suppose so could any other team, unless he is going to pull this crap with any team but the Flyers, in which case I say screw this guy). I don't see a deal getting done though, at least not now. Maybe a deadline deal though, especially if they go in with a big cap cushion.

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07-07-2012, 09:12 AM
  #765
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
It seems like it is kind of like a Mexican standoff type-deal. Ryan apparently wants out of Anaheim and the Flyers want Ryan. Who is going to blink first? The biggest issue in this IMO is how serious Ryan is about wanting out. If he just is unhappy then the Flyers will have to pay market price or above. If he is going to refuse to play or something, the Flyers may be able to strong arm the Ducks (but I suppose so could any other team, unless he is going to pull this crap with any team but the Flyers, in which case I say screw this guy). I don't see a deal getting done though, at least not now. Maybe a deadline deal though, especially if they go in with a big cap cushion.
I agree. I can't remember which thread I posted almost the same exact thing in since we have 2-3 going that all seem to end the same way with "nothing will happen." I think there is some hesitation without a CBA, not singing any huge free agents (not for lack of trying, more that players like Semin are still out there), overpaying assets for players who don't want to play for their current team, and even a question of how the team will play since it doesn't seem like there was a lot done to make the team "better" except for hoping that our core matures and Bryz rebounds.

Could this be the first step in Homer showing patience and building a team or is it just the first domino tipping over to what could be his demise and a down season? When the deadline comes we'll know for sure.

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Old
07-07-2012, 09:22 AM
  #766
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Originally Posted by sm0ka47 View Post
Because scoring goals isn't the only skill set in the NHL. The advantage defensively is Voracek. Ryan floats and doesn't really work hard in his own zone. How is Voracek not proven? He's already proven he can atleast put up 40-50 points and be responsible defensively. He can continue to get better. He's only 22 years old. Ryan is about to reach his peak years in terms of goal scoring. It would be nice to have him with Giroux but its not really a need when there are options in free agency. Not for what Murray is asking.
Good point about defensive play, I don't claim to know everything about Ryan's game. And I'm not saying sell the farm for Bobby, I'd rather sign Doan first before making a trade. I like Jake a lot and would rather not move him, but I just like Bobby's scoring and potential play with G a little more.

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07-07-2012, 09:28 AM
  #767
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Being as the Ducks are a low budget type team, I am thinking READ, GUS/MAB and a 1st or 2nd would get it done.... if that is the case - then pull the trigger.

In all honesty, if it is anything more in terms of OUR value going the other way then I am saying F that. Stick with what we have and march forward.

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07-07-2012, 09:42 AM
  #768
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Originally Posted by sm0ka47 View Post
Because scoring goals isn't the only skill set in the NHL. The advantage defensively is Voracek. Ryan floats and doesn't really work hard in his own zone. How is Voracek not proven? He's already proven he can atleast put up 40-50 points and be responsible defensively. He can continue to get better. He's only 22 years old. Ryan is about to reach his peak years in terms of goal scoring. It would be nice to have him with Giroux but its not really a need when there are options in free agency. Not for what Murray is asking.
That is totally false about Ryan's D. He may not be as good as Voracek but he isn't a floater and works hard on both ends of the ice. Ryan is actually good defensively. I would say he is better the Hartnell. Also, players don't just develop a scoring touch. They may learn to put themselves in a better position to score goals with experience to increase their production but it's not like Jake doesn't get his chances he just doesn't finish. He may end up like a bigger Kapenen. Really good 2 way player with great speed that tops out at 20 goals. Ryan is a finisher.

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07-07-2012, 10:34 AM
  #769
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
What does he have to regret at this point?JVR for Schenn filled a need and you have to see how they play going forward.
Carle's contract couldn't be justified based on what they already have committed to d contracts.
Jagr wanted to sign with a team that he could get top line minutes and top PP unit time.Ran out of steamRusty is a solid pick up. I'd take Rusty over Asham, Pyatt, Poni, Prust (based on contract). AgreedGervais...meh...he'll b a safety if Bourdon or Gus can't progress and hold a spot.
We have alot of young kids on the way!Really, I mean come on. I am just glad that that those two big FA's did not take the Flyer's offer. Talk about cap hell! I still am holding out that maybe Doan will come here, but that is a pipedream.

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07-07-2012, 10:37 AM
  #770
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Originally Posted by dingbathero View Post
Being as the Ducks are a low budget type team, I am thinking READ, GUS/MAB and a 1st or 2nd would get it done.... if that is the case - then pull the trigger.

In all honesty, if it is anything more in terms of OUR value going the other way then I am saying F that. Stick with what we have and march forward.
Now I would do that deal if that was what was on the table.

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07-07-2012, 12:00 PM
  #771
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I do wonder how valuable offering the 1st is in any package for Ryan. Next year's draft is supposed to be fantastic.

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07-07-2012, 05:52 PM
  #772
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
That is totally false about Ryan's D. He may not be as good as Voracek but he isn't a floater and works hard on both ends of the ice. Ryan is actually good defensively. I would say he is better the Hartnell. Also, players don't just develop a scoring touch. They may learn to put themselves in a better position to score goals with experience to increase their production but it's not like Jake doesn't get his chances he just doesn't finish. He may end up like a bigger Kapenen. Really good 2 way player with great speed that tops out at 20 goals. Ryan is a finisher.
No. Ryan takes shifts off. He isn't good defensively at all. Average maybe. But not good. Never said Voracek would develop a scoring touch. But he will be a good two-way player in this league that is a puck possession beast. Sami Kapenen is a terrible comparison because he was never as talented as Voracek. Kaps was a heart and soul type of guy with some skill he was never the playmaker and as skilled as Voracek is now.

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07-08-2012, 07:27 AM
  #773
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So I saw that Chuck Gormley of CSN Washington said that Washington isn't going to be a fit for Ryan. Just another team we can cross off the list of possible destinations.

My prediction: Ryan does get traded and we all collectively laugh at the return and the angry Duck fans.

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07-08-2012, 08:20 AM
  #774
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dingbathero View Post
Being as the Ducks are a low budget type team, I am thinking READ, GUS/MAB and a 1st or 2nd would get it done.... if that is the case - then pull the trigger.

In all honesty, if it is anything more in terms of OUR value going the other way then I am saying F that. Stick with what we have and march forward.
I'm thinking if that's what it would take to get it done, it would have been done by now ... Anaheim's asking price is higher then this in my opinion

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07-08-2012, 08:49 AM
  #775
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
So I saw that Chuck Gormley of CSN Washington said that Washington isn't going to be a fit for Ryan. Just another team we can cross off the list of possible destinations.

My prediction: Ryan does get traded and we all collectively laugh at the return and the angry Duck fans.

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