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Kulikov to Edmonton

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Old
07-06-2012, 07:05 PM
  #26
lakai17
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Gagner and Whitney

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07-06-2012, 07:09 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Kulikov isn't Erik Karlsson you realize, right?
Kulikov isn't Erik Karlsson, I never said that. But that's who it'd take to get Kulikov out of Florida that the Oilers have. I never said it will happen but that's the return the Panthers would expect. Don't underestimate the value Kulikov has to Florida.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoyawit View Post
Is this a joke?
I think you forgot the sarcasm face.
Not a joke at all. Did I say this would ever happen? No. But that's what the Oilers would have to pay if they wanted Kulikov. He's THAT valuable to the Panthers.

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07-06-2012, 07:16 PM
  #28
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Similar to what I said about Hemsky, Gagner gets a bad rep on these boards as well. He's a solid player, but people choose to focus solely on his flaws, something every player has.

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07-06-2012, 07:22 PM
  #29
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Ellerby + Matthias for Gagner makes sense to me. What do Edmonton fans think?

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07-06-2012, 07:24 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
Ellerby + Matthias for Gagner makes sense to me. What do Edmonton fans think?
is Matthias ready for the second line? I don't mind it.

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07-06-2012, 07:25 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
is Matthias ready for the second line? I don't mind it.
No. He is a third line guy.

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07-06-2012, 07:30 PM
  #32
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Gagner + Paajarvi/Hemsky + Klefbom

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07-06-2012, 07:31 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
is Matthias ready for the second line? I don't mind it.
no - he's a big bodied 3rd liner that can score 15-15-30. fast, strong and will hit/fight from time to time. he could possibly develop more offense but i wouldn't count on it. great 3rd liner though.

Santorelli is more of a scorer. But if he's not scoring he's entirely useless. Matthias definitely has more value in a trade.

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07-06-2012, 07:31 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilersfan87 View Post
Gagner + Paajarvi/Hemsky + Klefbom
wow, giving up on Paajarvi and Klefbom at the same time.

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07-06-2012, 07:32 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flapanthersfan View Post
no - he's a big bodied 3rd liner that can score 15-15-30. fast, strong and will hit/fight from time to time. he could possibly develop more offense but i wouldn't count on it. great 3rd liner though.

Santorelli is more of a scorer. But if he's not scoring he's entirely useless. Matthias definitely has more value in a trade.
Matthias is still young with lots of potential and would excel with the second line wingers Edmonton have to provide him with.

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07-06-2012, 08:08 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flapanthersfan View Post
Seriously? Awful.

I like Gagner - but if you're dealing a potential cornerstone defensman, you need to get a potential cornerstone forward back. Gagner is going to be a good 2nd line center, but that's probably it. Terrible idea.

Gagner for Ellerby + a decent prospect would make more sense. McFarland? Robak? Someone like that.
I said Gagner +, not straight up.

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07-06-2012, 08:42 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
wow, giving up on Paajarvi and Klefbom at the same time.
Yet you want us to give up Bjugstad and Guds in the same trade. You're clueless.

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07-06-2012, 08:50 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neatman View Post
That is absolutely true if you ignore all of the promising prospects coming up in the Oiler's system, as well as solid NHL players like Smid, Petry, Jones, etc. Why do you feel the need to comment negatively on a team you know nothing about?
I'm sorry, I can't help but look at the Oilers and think negatively.

Prospects are not as valued by GM's as they on here. Unless they are top-5 (Brayden Schenn), they won't get traded as a center piece in a deal. That's because the prospects you refer to (the Klefbom's and Lander's of the world) are also found in nearly every organization of some kind.

The Oilers are not the only team to have talented prospects.

And Smid, Petry and Jones are decent players, but again, as center pieces of a deal they won't fetch much.

I just call it how I see it. If you want an impact player, a member of the Big 4 is going to have to go back. Edmonton doesn't have much else unless they are in the mood of offering most of their good prospects.

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07-06-2012, 08:53 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
Gagner +?
your a panthers fan asking for Gagner+ for Kulikov? Is this the bizarro world

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Old
07-06-2012, 08:54 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey Matter View Post
The only reason for this, and it's with fans of other teams, not actual NHL GM's, etc, is because most fans of other teams see what the Oilers are creating and know we'll be in the realm of the Hawks/Penguins fairly soon and challenging for position in the playoffs.
Those 'fans' have seen the Oilers pick three top young players, have a host of other young prospects in minor leagues, Europe, etc, and picked up the top young defenceman that every other team wanted.

I don't propose trades because these so called fans will whine, ***** and complain about them no matter how good, poor, realistic, they are so I'm not sure why Oiler fans ever even try to have a rational conversation with most of these people.

In a couple of years there will be plenty of fans trying to get any of the Oil's top 20 players and they know it so, for now, they need to get their digs, etc, forgetting that pretty much every team in the league was once at the bottom....including their own beloved teams..Have a look back at history folks...Or perhaps, you already have and are really afraid because you know the Oil is rising to the top and every other team will, again, have their turn at the bottom...

Ahhh, it's great to be an Oil fan...
What does this have to do with anything I said?

Outside of the Big 4 and the players I mentioned by name (who are either injury prone or inconsistent), Edmonton does not have anything that most of the other teams already have.

You have 4 potential top 20 (even top 10?) forwards. But if you want an impact player, those are the only 4 who would net any interest.

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07-06-2012, 08:56 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
I just call it how I see it. If you want an impact player, a member of the Big 4 is going to have to go back. Edmonton doesn't have much else unless they are in the mood of offering most of their good prospects.
Your reasoning is all wrong. Once the Oilers take off (and most think they will), those guys that you figure have no value all of a sudden will.

Trade value isn't gauged in a vacuum.

Basically, I agree, GMs see things differently than we usually do here on HF. I believe that's also true with your judgment of the Oilers.

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07-06-2012, 09:14 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seachd View Post
Your reasoning is all wrong. Once the Oilers take off (and most think they will), those guys that you figure have no value all of a sudden will.

Trade value isn't gauged in a vacuum.

Basically, I agree, GMs see things differently than we usually do here on HF. I believe that's also true with your judgment of the Oilers.
Once the Oilers take off, then yes they will have value. And if they reach their potential, then they will have quite a lot of value.

What I am arguing is that, since they haven't taken off yet, they are still prospects. Still unknown's at the NHL level. And thus, unless they are unique prospects, they have fairly low value to GM's. Especially if Tambellini is trying to get established roster players.

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07-06-2012, 10:17 PM
  #43
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Florida is better off being patient in my honest opinion. Huberdeau, Bjudstad, Howden... you've got some offensive support coming very soon. No sense dealing any of your defense of the future and shifting the balance of your team's next generation.

This is coming from an Avs fan that would seriously covet the thought of moving one of our three centers for Kulikov.

Stay the course, you guys would regret losing him and having Huberdeau breakout, causing the loss of Weiss or forcing your hand to try and acquire a top notch defender down the road.

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07-06-2012, 10:23 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
Once the Oilers take off, then yes they will have value. And if they reach their potential, then they will have quite a lot of value.

What I am arguing is that, since they haven't taken off yet, they are still prospects. Still unknown's at the NHL level. And thus, unless they are unique prospects, they have fairly low value to GM's. Especially if Tambellini is trying to get established roster players.
Part of what makes a good GM is gauging what the real potential of prospects and young players are and then taking a very real risk in acquiring that player should the situation call for it. For example, when engaged in trade talks.

Being an ignoramus by stating unless a player is a star he has no value is in the Mike Milbury realm and that type of thinking just doesn't happen in today's NHL. Only an idiot would use the rationale you have used to judge a players value.

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07-06-2012, 10:50 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post

Being an ignoramus by stating unless a player is a star he has no value is in the Mike Milbury realm and that type of thinking just doesn't happen in today's NHL. Only an idiot would use the rationale you have used to judge a players value.
Good thing I didn't say that!!

Really, outside of the Big 4, Hemsky, Gagner, Whitney and Smid (I forgot Smid, sorry), who has the value to get an impact player?

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07-06-2012, 11:13 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
Good thing I didn't say that!!

Really, outside of the Big 4, Hemsky, Gagner, Whitney and Smid (I forgot Smid, sorry), who has the value to get an impact player?
Any of our top prospects outside of those names listed would have a high value to a team that is looking to get younger. This is one scenario where our prospects will garner an impact player.

In contrast, a team looking at a very short window in which to win would have no problem trading a young promising prospect to get that impact player.

Look at every star player traded in the last 8 years. Pronger, for example, was a sign-and-trade that saw two Oiler prospects (comparable in value and potential to our mid-tier prospects) Woywitka and Brewer sent to St. Louis. When Pronger was traded out, the Oilers received Smid and Lupul. One young rising player in Lupul, and a high potential high risk prospect in Smid. Take Smid out of that equation and the deal doesn't get done. This is an example in my previous post of taking a real risk by properly valuing a prospect when the situation calls for it. Of course, Woywitka and Brewer never panned out as planned but such is the risk.

Don't tell me prospects have no value when almost every trade involving high profile stars have always involved young budding players and prospects as the center pieces. Florida and Edmonton make horrible trading partners right now for the reasons and circumstances I've stated above. Florida just isn't desperate enough to trade their prospects.

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07-06-2012, 11:54 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Rod Buskas View Post
your a panthers fan asking for Gagner+ for Kulikov? Is this the bizarro world
Welcome to my life.

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Old
07-06-2012, 11:58 PM
  #48
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Musil + Gagner for Kulikov. EDM has enough defensive Ds at the moment.

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Old
07-07-2012, 01:12 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post


Look at every star player traded in the last 8 years. Pronger, for example, was a sign-and-trade that saw two Oiler prospects (comparable in value and potential to our mid-tier prospects) Woywitka and Brewer sent to St. Louis. When Pronger was traded out, the Oilers received Smid and Lupul. One young rising player in Lupul, and a high potential high risk prospect in Smid. Take Smid out of that equation and the deal doesn't get done. This is an example in my previous post of taking a real risk by properly valuing a prospect when the situation calls for it. Of course, Woywitka and Brewer never panned out as planned but such is the risk.
Eric Brewer wasn't a prospect when he was traded. He was a player with over 300+ NHL games.

Woywitka was a prospect, but that's my point. Prospects are not center pieces in a deal. They are put in to increase the value of the deal overall. Same with Lupul/Smid. If Smid is not in the deal, the Oilers say no, but if Lupul isn't there than it has the same result.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Don't tell me prospects have no value when almost every trade involving high profile stars have always involved young budding players and prospects as the center pieces. Florida and Edmonton make horrible trading partners right now for the reasons and circumstances I've stated above. Florida just isn't desperate enough to trade their prospects.
I probably should have elaborated: prospects have little trade value as the center pieces of deals for impact players.

If the Oilers want an impact player, then they have to give up a roster player, and then add on prospects to get it to work. My original point was that, if the Big 4 are of the table, then the only players available who have trade value are the oft-injured Hemsky and Whitney, the talented yet inconsistent Gagner, and a talented Smid. So really, the only piece that would work is Smid + prospects, but that limits the Oil's options.

I still stand by my original assertion: the Oilers are not in a good position to trade for impact players if the Big 4 is untouchable. But I was wrong when I said that prospects have no value- just that they don't work as the center pieces of the deal. On their own they have low value.

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Old
07-07-2012, 01:37 AM
  #50
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only way i see us trading kulikov to the oilers would be kulikov+ (the + not being gudbranson, huberdeau, or bjugstad) for 1 of the big 4 fowards. and since the oilers wouldnt trade one of them for kulikov then it makes it rather difficult. perhaps gagner, hemsky/1st for kulikov and an additional piece from our end. it wouldnt be cheap, especially if the oilers wouldnt trade one of the 4. i'd rather just sign kulikov long term (5+ years), really want to build that backend around campbell, gudbranson, and kulikov. dont think they move him, only if the receiving team over pays for him. if we were to trade him for offensive help, i just dont see Edmonton being good trading partners.

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