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The 2012-2013 Boston Celtics Thread: Part II

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Old
07-06-2012, 10:44 PM
  #326
24giovanni
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Can the C's offer OJ Mayo $6 million per they had allocated for Allen?

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07-06-2012, 10:53 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by 24giovanni View Post
Can the C's offer OJ Mayo $6 million per they had allocated for Allen?
Nope. We had Allen's bird rights, meaning we could sign him to whatever and go over the cap. We don't actually have cap space and we used our exception on Jason Terry, so no Mayo.

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07-06-2012, 11:06 PM
  #328
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Screw Ray. He took less money to go play with a bunch of classless punks. I hope the Celtics beat the Heat in the playoffs on the way to a Championship and Allen never sniffs the Finals again. Way to tarnish your legacy buddy.
I don"t fully understand this sentiment... It seems to me that professional athletes get lambasted all the time for being greedy and overpaid, following the money and going to a worse team in the process. Some people accused Parise and Suter of just such a thing when they signed their contracts yesterday. But Ray leaves money on the table and favors winning a championship over the money, and you hate him for it?

I understand the resentment because he was a Celtic, but I doubt you'd feel the same if he was leaving any other team to increase his chances of winning a title, and taking less money in the process. Try to stay objective.

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07-06-2012, 11:22 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by bleedsblackandgold47 View Post
I don"t fully understand this sentiment... It seems to me that professional athletes get lambasted all the time for being greedy and overpaid, following the money and going to a worse team in the process. Some people accused Parise and Suter of just such a thing when they signed their contracts yesterday. But Ray leaves money on the table and favors winning a championship over the money, and you hate him for it?

I understand the resentment because he was a Celtic, but I doubt you'd feel the same if he was leaving any other team to increase his chances of winning a title, and taking less money in the process. Try to stay objective.
It's not that he went to another team for the chance at a championship, he went to our Eastern Conference Arch-Rival whom the Cs just lost to a month ago. How would you feel if Chara didn't sign an extension here, and instead left to play for the Canadiens for less money than he was offered here?

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07-06-2012, 11:33 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Scruffy View Post
It's not that he went to another team for the chance at a championship, he went to our Eastern Conference Arch-Rival whom the Cs just lost to a month ago. How would you feel if Chara didn't sign an extension here, and instead left to play for the Canadiens for less money than he was offered here?
Im gonna love him forever and look down on those who don't. I really respect lebron bosh and allen along with all the heat fans who have been so loyal for the last 2 years and live nowhere near miami but are bashing Boston fans as classless morons for being upset at ray on the ESPN comment sections are completely correct and are the true fans unlike us. Shame on us for having the nerve to be upset at him for going to the team that beat us 4 weeks ago for half the money we offered him.


When all is said and done he brought KG to Boston and deserves credit for that. Not much else I got good to say about him his legacy here is ruined it was a judas move to go to the heat anywhere else and he'd be a hero in this town the rest of his life. Now his name is dirt. He didn't play long enough to go into the rafters despite leaving like this either but he would have been up there if he had retired or gone to another team.

If we were so nasty trying to trade him why did we offer him double what Miami or any other team was?

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07-06-2012, 11:58 PM
  #331
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Rose, if it weren't for injuries, might be the second best player in the league, behind durant.
That is great Oh wait, you were being serious? Its pretty clear who the best player in the league is, quite evident in the NBA Finals if you ask me, and anyone else who has common sense.

I would probably feel the same way that you guys feel if Wade left the Heat to go to the Knicks or Celtics, but the difference between Allen and Wade is that Wade is a Heat lifer. The Celtics had Allen for five seasons, and yes, he did help the Cs win a ring, but I think this is the type of hatred that Pierce would get if he left for the Heat, not Allen. Id really like to know what went on between Allen and Rondo, because I keep seeing that Allen hated the guy. Good luck next season guys, you are going to need it against us, more so if we get Camby and Lewis as well (all in good fun and banter guys).

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07-07-2012, 12:06 AM
  #332
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That is great Oh wait, you were being serious? Its pretty clear who the best player in the league is, quite evident in the NBA Finals if you ask me, and anyone else who has common sense.

I would probably feel the same way that you guys feel if Wade left the Heat to go to the Knicks or Celtics, but the difference between Allen and Wade is that Wade is a Heat lifer. The Celtics had Allen for five seasons, and yes, he did help the Cs win a ring, but I think this is the type of hatred that Pierce would get if he left for the Heat, not Allen. Id really like to know what went on between Allen and Rondo, because I keep seeing that Allen hated the guy. Good luck next season guys, you are going to need it against us, more so if we get Camby and Lewis as well (all in good fun and banter guys).
Starting a team from scratch

James
Durant
Rose
Howard
CP3

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07-07-2012, 12:14 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Mancini0518 View Post
Starting a team from scratch

James
Durant
Rose
Howard
CP3
James and Durant are definitely 1-2. As a Heat homer, I go with James of course, but when discussing this same topic before the Finals, I had a tough time not going with Durant. KD is a great talent, a great scorer, but LeBron is hands down the best all-around player, and will be one of the best of all time. The guy puts up numbers that havent been seen in 30-40-50 years.

Back to the hot topic, which is Ray Allen to the HEAT , I really would like to know what the hell happened between he and Rondo. Hey, I would not have minded if he re-signed with the Cs, but this just adds to the rivalry, and I cannot wait for that first visit to Boston, where those boos lead to him draining multiple 3s, because you know LeBron will be looking for him!

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07-07-2012, 12:37 AM
  #334
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No hard feelings, Ray. Id say good luck...but nahh. I'm happy to be getting younger. Had to start sometime.

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07-07-2012, 01:49 AM
  #335
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Miami can play without a point guard. Every team can play with 3 guards for stretches of time (the Heat especially). The Celtics have 2 shooting guards ahead of him on the depth chart (Terry plays the 2 a lot more than the point). There's undoubtedly more playing time to be had in Miami. And that doesn't even include the Rondo factor.

And I don't think most fans hate him now. Only the loud, obnoxious, oversensitive minority like yourself.
I will preface this by saying I would never pay to see a basketball game. What kind of reaction do you think Ray Allen gets when he returns to the Garden as a member of the Heat? The way it was presented, it sounds like Ray believes because he has played here (and at UCONN) that fans will cheer for him wherever he goes. That would be great, but if you believe that that will happen, we have very different views of the sports culture in Boston. People loved Johnny Damon, and he left for more money to go play for the Yankees. People could rationalize that by saying, they offered him a significantly higher salary and the Red Sox didn't act like they valued him. In spite of his rational decision, people booed him for years, even after he had left the Yankees. It was not until he was a member of the Tigers that he got an ovation at Fenway. Ray wanted to leave so badly, that he took half of the annual salary to play for the Heat. That's my take on it.

I personally don't mind him leaving. It hurts that they weren't able to sign and trade him elsewhere, but I think Terry is a better option. I'm hoping they are able to bring in a center or small forward with the bi-annual exception. I still think if healthy, they can get past the heat. They were without Chris Wilcox, Jeff Green, and Avery Bradley and they still went to game 7.

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07-07-2012, 02:16 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
That is great Oh wait, you were being serious? Its pretty clear who the best player in the league is, quite evident in the NBA Finals if you ask me, and anyone else who has common sense.

I would probably feel the same way that you guys feel if Wade left the Heat to go to the Knicks or Celtics, but the difference between Allen and Wade is that Wade is a Heat lifer. The Celtics had Allen for five seasons, and yes, he did help the Cs win a ring, but I think this is the type of hatred that Pierce would get if he left for the Heat, not Allen. Id really like to know what went on between Allen and Rondo, because I keep seeing that Allen hated the guy. Good luck next season guys, you are going to need it against us, more so if we get Camby and Lewis as well (all in good fun and banter guys).
Durant put up more points than Lebron did in the series. He also had more blocks, a higher field goal percentage, and he shot 15 fewer free throws than Lebron. Speaking of free throws, Wade and Lebron combined for 3 fewer free throw attempts than Westbrook, Harden and Durant combined. Oh, and Lebron is 4 years older than Durant, and has been in the league for 4 years more.

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07-07-2012, 04:46 AM
  #337
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this was literally the only thing Allen could have done to make not like him anymore... Such a sour feeling in my stomach... Thanks for some great years Ray, but you stupid ****

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07-07-2012, 05:28 AM
  #338
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does this mean Ray's wife's cooking show is not going to be on?

this has to be about Rondo and losing his starting spot- Allen suffers from OCD and to change routines when you don't have to means there is something significant.

Always one of my favorite players but he's the enemy now. Not even close to seeing Clemens in a Blue Jays or Yankees jersey but still will be odd next season.

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07-07-2012, 05:33 AM
  #339
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If I cared about the C's/NBA Ray Allen going to South Beach would really piss me off. I don't so ...eh.

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07-07-2012, 06:01 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by Scruffy View Post
It's not that he went to another team for the chance at a championship, he went to our Eastern Conference Arch-Rival whom the Cs just lost to a month ago. How would you feel if Chara didn't sign an extension here, and instead left to play for the Canadiens for less money than he was offered here?
This. I'm not even a big Celtics fan, but I thought it was a crap move by Allen. If it was any other team it wouldn't be a big deal. But the way I look at it, he abandoned his teammates to sign with our biggest rival. I don't care if it was for another chance at a championship. The Celtics if completely healthy could have just as easily won last year and are certainly contenders again this year if they can stay healthy.

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07-07-2012, 06:45 AM
  #341
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if Ray's wife comes up with a TV show down there, there is your answer.

also, somebody down there has to get Allen's mother and Labron's mom hanging out. Talk about hilarious.

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07-07-2012, 07:08 AM
  #342
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does this mean Ray's wife's cooking show is not going to be on?

this has to be about Rondo and losing his starting spot- Allen suffers from OCD and to change routines when you don't have to means there is something significant.

Always one of my favorite players but he's the enemy now. Not even close to seeing Clemens in a Blue Jays or Yankees jersey but still will be odd next season.
Chris Mannix was on WEEI yesterday, and said that the Rondo stuff was overblown. A factor, but a minor one. The word was that if the Celtics had met Allen's initial contract demands, he would have signed immediately with the Celts, so how much of a factor could Rondo and the playing time have been??

Not a huge B-ball guy, but from watching this situation unfold, I think the 3 reasons why he left, (in order) were:

1) Feels MIA gives him the best shot at another championship.

2) Thinks he will have a more defined role/more playing time in MIA

3) Rondo Factor

#'s 1 and 2 may not be true, but I think that Allen believes they will be?

Also, FWIW, Mannix said (yesterday) he loves Ray Allen, but if he were to leave the C's it might not be the worst thing, and that it would allow them to go in some "interesting" directions with the $$$ he was going to get.

Don't follow basketball closely enough to know what he means, I assume he's talking about stylistically on the court?

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07-07-2012, 08:05 AM
  #343
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Originally Posted by kman22 View Post
Durant put up more points than Lebron did in the series. He also had more blocks, a higher field goal percentage, and he shot 15 fewer free throws than Lebron. Speaking of free throws, Wade and Lebron combined for 3 fewer free throw attempts than Westbrook, Harden and Durant combined. Oh, and Lebron is 4 years older than Durant, and has been in the league for 4 years more.
Im sorry, but I like to go by what you actually see on the court, not just what a box score says. Its funny that you want to use stats to try to make a point. Ok fine, Ill bite. LeBron averaged more rebounds, more assists, and nearly the same points as Durant. You want to bring up blocks, , wow, Durant had five, to LeBron's two. I can say LeBron averaged more steals, like your block statistics, but a a one block difference doesnt make sense. Now, if you go by what you actually SEE on the court, then LeBron is the better defender, the better passer, the better creator, which is why he is the most complete player in the game. Durant is a hell of a shooter, who can pull up anywhere within the half court line, but he is not the better all around player. LeBron put up numbers in these playoffs that havent been seen since Magic Johnson in the 80s, and the Big O in the 60s, while the best game from the Thunder wasnt even from Durant, it was from Westbrook in Game 4.

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07-07-2012, 10:01 AM
  #344
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Uh not really. Clip show cancelled after signing Crawford. He isn't interested in Phoenix or Memphis. Ray can't get more money than the Celtics are offering. He has only one other team in mind....Miami. Come on if you want to argue that its crazy.


As for your prior post I was wrong about Paul he is a deadly shooter and not a volume scorer. He is a score first PG though (both are shoot first PGs volume scorer is Rose NOT Paul.) Paul is very good however his lack of athleticism due to his injury in the playoffs can/may hurt him going forward. If he doesn't have that first step he isn't going to be better than the other stars.

Disagree about Rose he isn't that good. The team wasn't dreadful without him. Philly could have won the series with him playing. Plays on a good team takes a million shots. Rondo makes his teammates better because he distributes. Those guys distribute better than many PGs but its not the main part of their game (scoring.) Rondo bases his game around distributing. He makes passes NOONE else in the NBA can make. These defenses are good Rondo can break them down. A guy like Rondo makes it so much easier to score in the half court and makes the team not rely on the other team to miss shots for good offensive possessions.
Again, not true. Tony Parker and Steve Nash are at least as good passers as rondo if not better. Rondo gets severely overrated in Boston.

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07-07-2012, 12:19 PM
  #345
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Just saw the news about Ray, thanks for the hard work & helping us win in 08. Celtics will be fine if they are healthy. Terry will step in & be more than adequate replacemet for Ray.

Looking forward to the start of NBA now just as much as NHL. Great times to be Bruins & Celtics fan...

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07-07-2012, 12:33 PM
  #346
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Watched that ESPN movie on Steve Bartman... the first bit to highlite the effect and such talked about Bill Buckner...

Man, did he ever got a raw deal.

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07-07-2012, 01:12 PM
  #347
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Originally Posted by N O O D L E S View Post
Again, not true. Tony Parker and Steve Nash are at least as good passers as rondo if not better. Rondo gets severely overrated in Boston.
Rondo is in the same tier of passers as Paul and Nash, no doubt about it.

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07-07-2012, 02:49 PM
  #348
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Thanks for being so clutch in the 2010 NBA Finals Ray...wait nevermind. Screw off, hope you rot in South Beach. No loyalty to teammates, Doc, or the organization. Maybe he can go along for another title run in Miami because it would be so impressive. Good thing I'm not bitter haha.

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07-07-2012, 03:37 PM
  #349
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Are you a high IQ version of the poster Dojji needing to have a controversial opinion with the Rondo hate?

I like your posts you know what your talking about but I remember you going out of your way to bash Marchand after he was our best skater against teh Canucks and passing along stories of things he said on the ice to get under other players skin (that shouldn't leave the rink or make it to message boards I've said stuff in a locker room or in a scrum in front of the net that I'd only say elsewhere maybe in a bar fight or something not in front of the world doesn't way happens at the rink stay at the rink?)


If Rondo is such a punk how come he is the least selfish PG in the NBA on the court? Name a point guard who has the talent to score 15+ a game who ALWAYS looks to pass first like Rondo! YOU CAN'T HE IS THE BEST DISTRIBUTOR IN THE NBA! GO LOOK UP THE STATS YOU GONNA TRY AND TELL US NASH WHO ISN'T A SHELL OF HIS 2005-2008 SELF IS BETTER STILL? OR WHOVER THE FREAK IS #3 IN ASSISTS PER GAME?


WHY THE FREAK DOES HE NEED TO PASS TO ALLEN WHEN RAY IS SUCKING AND HOBBLING AROUND AND (I THINK) THE CAREER FT% LEADER CANT EVEN HIT THOSE? ITS HIS TEAM NOW AND THATS WHY WE ALMOST TOOK OUT THE HEAT BECAUSE PP AND KG ACCEPTED THIS!


Rondo was probably right not passing to Allen cause he saw him missing FTs and knew he'd brick the 3 and give the other team a fast break. Rondo can't play a lot of transition D he will get in foul trouble (nor can he pressure the ball handler for more than a couple minutes a game.)


Allen was bad this year. BAD. As in not worth 12 mil over 2 years. His high scoring games where he scored a lot came with other guys were off. He was a weak link the rest of the year. I still give it to him because I think he fits Miami perfectly (he can hit the shots Miller Jones Battier did) so I sign him and tell him to go play for the NBDL team. He only played well a few games in the playoffs. When he was forced to be the guy with KG and PP starting slow he sucked flat out (and then got hurt). Has Allen had a Mark Recchi-like impact on our dressing room where he is out and out altruistic and deserves a pass on anything since he is such a great influence? Nope...I give KG credit for being that kind of presence but Allen isn't a great leader. He is a solid human being and person of the court (that will change when he goes to Miami a little for me but not much) and is a good player but he isn't a star anymore. I'd rather accomodate an aging Pierce than an aging Ray Allen.



Jeff do you think Pierce in 2 years will be as selfish as Allen is right now whining about being behind Avery? Or do you think Peirce will just want to add to his rings and take the eventual demotion in stride?


Edit- 1st- Sorry if this post is rude Jeff or flaming. 2nd- I didn't make a point that I think you are emphasizing the part of the season which almost "didn't happen" that wasn't our real team at the beginning of the season. We were as big a joke as the Knicks. Once we stopped being a joke like the Knicks Allen was bad. So I can't really credit him like you do for being our best player early in the year when the Celtics were behaving like the Knicks.
First off.....no worries. If I think your flaming or being rude, I will absolutelly let you know it! I have no issues with doing so.

Now, to attack your points 1 at a time:

1. The best distributor thing: He may be, he may not be. If he is, he is just a teeny weeny shade better than Chris Paul. As I pointed out to you in another post...Paul has NEVER played with even half the talent that Rondo has ALWAYS played with. Say what you will about any KG, Pierce or Allen....NO WAY that Paul EVER plays with that level of offensive talent. That said, the FACT that Paul averages just a shade less than 2 assists per game MORE than Rondo, COMPLETELY makes your comment about Rondo being such a rare guy...the ONLY guy you said can average 15 PPG and always looks to pass first. I DID notice how you worded that comment....you wrote "always looks to pass first." Guess what....that means nothing. If Paul DOESNT look to pass first, and STILL averages almost 2 assists per game more than Rondo per season, to me that would indicate that he is a far better passer. WHY? Because he picks up more assists with fewer passes. Far more ECONOMICAL in terms of distributing the ball.

P.S....I gotta throw this in there.....you said Rondo is the only guy who can average 15 PPG....he has never even come close to 15 PPG. This year he didnt even reach 12. Rondo is a guy who will go for 27 one night, and then the next 11 games wont exceed 12. If he did, the Celts would have won 4 of the last 5 NBA titles. But teh FACT is that Rajon Rondo is NOT a good scorer, even for the guard position. He was the 53rd...YES, the FIFTY THIRD ranked scorer, per game, of all NBA guards. He was 40th among guards in shooting percentage....behind both Allen and Bradley among Celtic guards. Lets face the facts....he is NOT a good shooter and he is NOT a good scorer. He is a somewhat adequate shooter, who happened to have a good scoring postseason (17.1 per game), which coincidentally occured during a stretch in which he took MORE SHOTS PER GAME than any Celtic not named Kevin Garnett. Alllen took 9.3 shots per game...Rondo took 15.8.

Care to guess the ONLY guards in the NBA to take more postseason shots per game than he did?

OK, I'll let you in on it....Kobe, Westbrook, Rose, and Wade. Tony Parker took .2 shots per game more. FWIW...."volume scorer" Chris Paul took a full shot less per game than did Rondo.

I will give Rondo credit...he did his BEST foul shooting EVER in this years postseason, shooting a SMOKING and SIZZLING 69%. You mentioned old man cant shoot foul shots Ray Allen? Still hit 91% this season. God awful. YET, STILL 22% HIGHER than Rondo.

I find it rich that you ripped Ray Allen for sucking in the playoffs. The mans ankles were mush. The fact that he evenb suited up was amazing. Hey, I give Rondo credit for playing with his injured shoulder a postseason or 2 ago. That was gutsy, and it absolutely affected his play negatively. But I find in very telling that you rip a guy whose biggest asset is his 3 pt game. You DO know, dont you?, that to be a great 3 pt shooter, you need to have your legs consistently under you, right? That includes your FEET and ANKLES! If you cant get your feet set because they are shredded, how do you expec CONSISTENT 3 pt shooting? The man DID have the ability to hit a few in stretches, but it was absolutely compromised.

BTW....Ray Allen shot 45% from 3 pt line this season. And in the postseason, 30%...Rondo was under 27%

Here is something I think you will find very interesting....you can find it at basketball-reference.com: When you combine points/assist/rebounds per game....Rondo is the 8th best point guard in the NBA.

You speak a lot about how he is the best all-around guard....15 ppg scorer who is the best distributor in the game. Did you know that the following PGs are rated higher than Rondo, when those 3 stats (per game) are combined? Westbrook, Rose, Williams, Paul? I'm sure you did.

But were you also aware that John Wall, Tony Parker and Montae Ellis were also ahead of him? And that Brandon Jennings, Kylie Irving, Steve Nash, Jarrett jack, Tyreke Evans and Kyle Lowry were within 1.5 per game of Rondo?

Me thinks the gap between Rondo and the other PGs in the NBA is NOT as large as you think, especially when you consider that NONE of them have as much offensive talent with them as Rondo does.

Westbrook has Durant....and little else, other than Harden.
Rose has....actually Rose has nobody.
Williams? Possibly less than what Rose has.
Paul? Yeah, he had Blake Griffin, and who? De'Andre Jordan?

NOBODY has talent like Rondo does....other than Chalmers, who is really just an afterthought becaause James and Wade are point wings.

So, to sum up my points:

Your comments about Allen sucking at FTs and 3's is based on nothing. He averaged 45% on 3's and 91% on FTs this season. Thats great by anyones standards. The ONLY time he truly struggled in those areas was when his injuries left him incapable of getting his feet underneath him, which anyone who knows a thing about shooting a basketball will tell are akin to the foundation of a house....if your foundation is cracking and crumbling, your home is in serious trouble.

Your comments about Rondo being the most complete PG in the game, I believe have been refuted. You said he scores 15PPG....never has come close. Paul scores more and and assists more over their careers...and has never had the good fortune of playing his career with 3 Hall of Famers whose offensive games are a HUGE reason as to why all 3 will be first ballot HOFers.

Whats next?

Later

Jeff from Maine is offline  
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07-07-2012, 03:45 PM
  #350
Jeff from Maine
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Sorry....I forgot to address your comments about Allen whining.

You talk about him whining??? Seriously? Rondo is the single biggest baby in Boston sports and in the NBA!

1. Everytime his name is brought up in trades...he cries.
2. When Perk got dealt...he all but quit on the team.
3. He had to be coaxed out of his car and into the lockeroom before a game.
4. destroyed a video screen in last years playoffs because he had a tantrum when Doc called him out on his mistakes in the Heat series. This was immediately AFTER, he cut his teammates legs out from under them and threw them under the bus by bringing their mistakes up!

Are you serious???? His coach, whose JOB it is to critically confront his players with their mistakes, tells him what he is doing wrong, and Rondos response is, "Well, Raymond missed 3 shots, and...and...KG only grabbed 8 rebound last night. And Paul, well Paul...he shoots too much. Stop picking on me coach! Stop picking on me!"

And lets not forget his blatant attempt at intimidating an official when he chest bumped him in this years playoffs!

Ray Allen MAY not have been happy to back up Bradley....name a great player who would! NAME ONE!

But he sure as hell never needed to be coaxed out of his vehicle. He never shattered a videoo screen in a tantrum...and he didnt whine when his name was brought up in trade talks....neither did KG or Pierce for that matter.

But Rondo does....all of the above. I already provided a link for you in a previous post.

Later

Jeff from Maine is offline  
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