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#1/#2 Defenceman to Detroit

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Old
07-07-2012, 10:36 AM
  #76
irishtemper
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Datsyuk to Washington for ???? Karlson?Alzner?


Assuming Ken Holland was going to blow up the team and go for re-build.

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07-07-2012, 10:41 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Habs have 6 dman signed and they still have Subban and Diaz to sign.

Habs don't have a number 1, or 2 (Subban, Gorges Markov*) available, but if you need a lesser d I'm sure the habs can part ways with Diaz, Weber, or Kaberle. The first 2 carrying value and the latter not carrying any value until next year.
I think Kaberle would be good in Detroit. It's at least worth a try and Red Wings would get to keep their star players.


I honestly believe that Kaberle will be good again. You just gotta give him alot of ice time and show faith in him, restore his confidence.

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07-07-2012, 10:44 AM
  #78
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You want a defenseman,ok here he is. Mark Streit for Johan Franzen straight up.yes or no?

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07-07-2012, 10:46 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Ishad View Post
Because losing one player to retirement and another to family followed by not replacing them with the only free agent that fit the bill going to play close to home with a friend makes Holland a crap GM. (Especially after not giving Carle a 6 year 33 million contract)

Now the wings could try and trade for a #1/#2 D man, but a team trading Dmen will likely want forwards and the only roster forwards the wings can trade with any value are Filppula and Franzen, both of which have their value hurt by their contracts. (Filppula only 1 year, Franzen too many years)

Other GMs aren't idiots, there is no magic #1 Dman coming out of the hat. Sooner wings fans realize this the better.
This.

The people bashing Holland are getting on my nerves. Is he perfect? No, not at all (see Samuelsson). But this team has been a legit contender every year he has been our GM. Then we put forward a great offer for Suter and we don't land him. In the end there was nothing we could do to get him, I don't think more money would have swayed him. We haven't been incredibly active in trading away prospects, so we can use them now to trade or throw them into the lineup.

What I find funny is that people were clamoring all year for guys like Nyquist to get a top 6 role, but if we had signed Parise, Nyquist has no spot again. So, now we are in a position to give him those minutes, but that's not good enough either. If we did everything the fans wanted on here we would have had a team full of 5'10" skill players

Holland is fine, we just missed on the guy they have wanted for a while. So you move on. Like I said, we still have, basically, all our top prospects left over the past few years.

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07-07-2012, 10:47 AM
  #80
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Rebuild time. It's your guys turn to lose again.
Keep on dreaming .

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Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 View Post
I think Kaberle would be good in Detroit. It's at least worth a try and Red Wings would get to keep their star players.


I honestly believe that Kaberle will be good again. You just gotta give him alot of ice time and show faith in him, restore his confidence.
We need a guy(s) who can actually defend. We have puck movers already. Or if we are going for puck mover, he should have potential to improve his D and be actually like young.

Though Kaberle is better than nothing. But Kubina and Rozsival aren't much worse, if at all imo, and can be had without giving up assets.

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07-07-2012, 10:47 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Sparksrus3 View Post
You want a defenseman,ok here he is. Mark Streit for Johan Franzen straight up.yes or no?
No thanks.

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07-07-2012, 10:50 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Sparksrus3 View Post
You want a defenseman,ok here he is. Mark Streit for Johan Franzen straight up.yes or no?
I'm not the biggest fan of Franzen but no. We need him if we aren't getting additions. Hopefully playing with Z next season adds some spark to him.

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07-07-2012, 10:55 AM
  #83
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Just a heads up - the DRW still have a very, very solid team...people writing them off are making a mistake.

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07-07-2012, 11:01 AM
  #84
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markov. im serious.

im guessing he'd be relatively cheap to pick up because of the health concern, and he plays the game the same way nick used to so he should fit right in.

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07-07-2012, 11:08 AM
  #85
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Keep on dreaming .



We need a guy(s) who can actually defend. We have puck movers already. Or if we are going for puck mover, he should have potential to improve his D and be actually like young.

Though Kaberle is better than nothing. But Kubina and Rozsival aren't much worse, if at all imo, and can be had without giving up assets.
Sign Kubina and pair him with Kaberle (who u trade for, maybe something in between 5th-7th round pick).

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07-07-2012, 11:09 AM
  #86
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Just a heads up - the DRW still have a very, very solid team...people writing them off are making a mistake.
It depends on who they sign/trade for. I think they'll reach playoffs but not much more. Not gonna be great, but still above average.

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07-07-2012, 11:09 AM
  #87
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Kulikov and Versteeg for Zetterberg

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07-07-2012, 11:10 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by FINISHYOURMILK View Post
Just pure frustration, Holland knew this was coming; Lidstrom's and Rafalski's retirement weren't a surprise to anyone, and Stuart has been talking about going home for a while now.

It just seems like he hasn't done anything at all to try and prepare for this offseason, (unless you consider trading a 1st rounder for 3 months of Quincey an improvement). Instead he gambled everything on this year's UFA crop. And while you can't directly blame him for having Suter and Parise sign with Minny; you can blame him for refusing to do anything in the years previous and putting us in a situation where losing out on Suter & Parise leave us crippled.

His excuse for not doing anything has always been "market was too expensive" and "we have a good team, we just had bad luck with injuries". Which is ironic because now if Detroit wants to make a trade they'll have to pay significantly more than they would have before because it's a known fact that they're desprate.

On top of all this, the highlight of this years highly coveted FA Frenzy for Detroit, will likely be bringing back 35 year old Samuelsson,a third liner who will most likely be forced to play a second line role.
Bingo this sums it up perfectly.

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07-07-2012, 11:11 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by irishtemper View Post
Datsyuk to Washington for ???? Karlson?Alzner?


Assuming Ken Holland was going to blow up the team and go for re-build.
Not on the same sentence. He would just go out and sign Lilja

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07-07-2012, 11:15 AM
  #90
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If I recall correctly during one of the red wing games, a while back they said Bret Lebda was being groomed to be Lidstroms replacement... Wings should just get him back
I can't imagine that was ever said... If it was, you should have known better...


Nobody with sense ever thought that much of Brett Lebda. He was decent at times, but lets be real.

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07-07-2012, 11:20 AM
  #91
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The rangers would probably be Open to shipping something over in exchange for some forward youth that we could ship to Columbus for nash
This makes no sense. If the Rangers have deemed their top defensemen off limits in a deal for Nash, why would they trade one of them to Detroit just to turn around and deal that return for Nash? In essence wouldn't they be trading one of their top d-men for Nash?

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07-07-2012, 11:37 AM
  #92
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Hope that your team can hold it together until the trade deadline, then look for a top4 guy some team is trying to offload.

That's how Tampa got Eric Brewer for a 3rd and a D-level prospect.

I wouldn't be too hard on Holland, from an outsiders perspective he did try pretty hard. His offer to Suter was a very good one, and his offer to Carle was very close to what Tampa offered.

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07-07-2012, 11:42 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by dtones520 View Post
This.

The people bashing Holland are getting on my nerves. Is he perfect? No, not at all (see Samuelsson). But this team has been a legit contender every year he has been our GM. Then we put forward a great offer for Suter and we don't land him. In the end there was nothing we could do to get him, I don't think more money would have swayed him. We haven't been incredibly active in trading away prospects, so we can use them now to trade or throw them into the lineup.

What I find funny is that people were clamoring all year for guys like Nyquist to get a top 6 role, but if we had signed Parise, Nyquist has no spot again. So, now we are in a position to give him those minutes, but that's not good enough either. If we did everything the fans wanted on here we would have had a team full of 5'10" skill players

Holland is fine, we just missed on the guy they have wanted for a while. So you move on. Like I said, we still have, basically, all our top prospects left over the past few years.
Ignore those kids. Half of them are bandwagon fans that like Detroit because they were successful for two decades, half them will jump on Pittsburgh bandwagon soon enough, don't worry.

Wings are still a playoff team regardless imo, not a cup contender. I feel bad for Tatar because instead of letting him prove himself to be a good sniper we just keep signing other players, I think its time to see some of the gems Detroit has down in the AHL come up.

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07-07-2012, 11:52 AM
  #94
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His offer to Suter was a very good one, and his offer to Carle was very close to what Tampa offered.
Yep- Suter would have been great but missing on Carle was a blessing in disguise. Carle would have been more of the same- Detroit needs legit size/snarl or a righty for the top four. Preferably both in the same player. If Weber makes it to UFA back the armored truck up to his house and fill his swimming pool with cash.

Until then... that's a toughy and time for Holland to prove the hype. I do like Bouwmeester but I don't think he's played on the right side and probably wouldn't come cheap enough. Honestly the best bet might be a reclamation project since Detroit has pretty good luck working that angle.

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07-07-2012, 12:00 PM
  #95
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Everyone mentions how Datsyuk and Zetterberg are untouchables and rightly so, how do Wings fans feel about Howard though? Was spit balling earlier about Phaneuf + Reimer/Scrivens for Howard+.

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07-07-2012, 12:01 PM
  #96
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Detroit should just rebuild. If they prolong a rebuild and constantly strike out in free agency, they will pretty much be a bottom feeding team for 5+ years.

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07-07-2012, 12:18 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
We don't hate him. Some of us are very upset that after failing to snag Suter, Holland tried to feed the fanbase his same "We tried hard and couldn't get it done, but we like are team going forward" BS he's been spewing the past couple of years. This has given us the idea that this is more or less a cop out from having to answer to having done nothing to improve the team when there moves that could have been made.
What is he suppose to say? "Suter wanted to be severely overpaid that will hurt any hockey club who signs him, because the cap is going to eventually go down. And nobody wants to trade with us unless we include all our best players for one dman, which hurts the team, not improves it"?

Brilliant

Quote:
Originally Posted by FINISHYOURMILK View Post
Just pure frustration, Holland knew this was coming; Lidstrom's and Rafalski's retirement weren't a surprise to anyone, and Stuart has been talking about going home for a while now.

It just seems like he hasn't done anything at all to try and prepare for this offseason, (unless you consider trading a 1st rounder for 3 months of Quincey an improvement). Instead he gambled everything on this year's UFA crop. And while you can't directly blame him for having Suter and Parise sign with Minny; you can blame him for refusing to do anything in the years previous and putting us in a situation where losing out on Suter & Parise leave us crippled.

His excuse for not doing anything has always been "market was too expensive" and "we have a good team, we just had bad luck with injuries". Which is ironic because now if Detroit wants to make a trade they'll have to pay significantly more than they would have before because it's a known fact that they're desprate.

On top of all this, the highlight of this years highly coveted FA Frenzy for Detroit, will likely be bringing back 35 year old Samuelsson,a third liner who will most likely be forced to play a second line role.
Rafalski didn't even know he was going to retire until the end of the season; this was AFTER trade deadline. Are you suggesting Holland can go above and beyond the NHL rules? Really?

Who are all these "great" defensemen Holland could have landed? James Wisniewski? Niiiiiice!

You do realize Red Wings were up against the cap after 2009 and didn't have money to spend until last year when Wisniewski and a few other overrated dmen got severely overpaid?

People are mad but don't understand how NHL (and salary cap) work. Holland can't just pull a rabbit out of his arse.

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07-07-2012, 12:36 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by HTT3 View Post
What is he suppose to say? "Suter wanted to be severely overpaid that will hurt any hockey club who signs him, because the cap is going to eventually go down. And nobody wants to trade with us unless we include all our best players for one dman, which hurts the team, not improves it"?

Brilliant



Rafalski didn't even know he was going to retire until the end of the season; this was AFTER trade deadline. Are you suggesting Holland can go above and beyond the NHL rules? Really?

Who are all these "great" defensemen Holland could have landed? James Wisniewski? Niiiiiice!

You do realize Red Wings were up against the cap after 2009 and didn't have money to spend until last year when Wisniewski and a few other overrated dmen got severely overpaid?

People are mad but don't understand how NHL (and salary cap) work. Holland can't just pull a rabbit out of his arse.
Like I said, these guys that are complaining aren't Red Wing fans, they don't understand anything. They expect Detroit to be doing what they did before the cap, and just overpay to have them on the team. Its pretty bad when you are the most successful team in the last 20 years, yet when Holland doesn't sign anyone they want (right now) they freak out like spoiled brats.

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07-07-2012, 12:45 PM
  #99
Robert Theodorson
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Originally Posted by irishtemper View Post
Datsyuk to Washington for ???? Karlson?Alzner?


Assuming Ken Holland was going to blow up the team and go for re-build.
Mike Green for Zetterberg straight up is pretty fair.

Carlson and Alzner aren't going anywhere.

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07-07-2012, 12:45 PM
  #100
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I think that could be reasonable......



Ryan, Nyquist



Delzotto, NYR 3rd



Stepan, miller, DET 1st

Detroit: Nyquist, 1st for Delzotto, 3rd.

Ana: Ryan for Stepan., Miller, DET 1st.

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