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Better overall player avail by trade: Luongo or Nash

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Old
07-06-2012, 09:31 PM
  #26
Xander Crews
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
Completely OT, but I still hate this type of thing, yet EVERYONE says it... over and over and over.

Apples can be compared to oranges. There are varying degrees of good/bad apples vs. good/bad oranges. Most people would take a spectacular orange over a good apple and vice versa-- just because you can't look at direct details and compare, and can be impossible to compare if they're in reasonably similar shape, they're both just food that you eat and hope tastes good-- Why the hell not compare which one you think tastes better?

I think Sidney Crosby is better than Ryan Suter, Henrik Lundqvist is better than Patrick Marleau, and The Wire is better than The Hangover. It doesn't make any sense to say you can't make comparisons between things that are different, IMO. Especially in this case, where we're picking between two players in the same league playing the same game and capable of contributing to different degrees.


....... But in this case, I can't decide. It kind of annoys me that it seems like we can't get someone even close to as good as Nash for Luongo considering the answer isn't easy for most people, though. Imagine how much a guy like Nash could help.
Its because thats all 100% opinion... thats why people say you cant compare them. Sure you CAN compare them but its going to be different for every person since there is nothing to directly compare. When you compare something that is 100% opinion it becomes a futile effort since you cant ever convince anyone your right... cause youre really not since there is no 'right'.

You can say you like an orange better than an apple but that doesnt mean an orange IS better than an apple.

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Old
07-06-2012, 09:34 PM
  #27
HockeyRX
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Luongo

-is elite in his position
-one year removed from a vezina nomination
-most consistent goaltender
-5.33 cap hit and said in a recent interview that he will not play out the end of his contract

Nash

-good power forward but not elite in his position anymore
-points totals trending downwards for last three years
-7.8 mill cap hit
-younger

Luongo is worth more imo

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Old
07-06-2012, 09:35 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mansfield View Post
Luongo easily. A top ten at his position...I'd say nash is even a stretch to be a top 20 forward at this point...
Well that logic makes no sense, there are 6 times as many forwards out there than goalies. If you look at it that way you could also do the opposite and say well Luongo is a bottom 60 goalie while Nash isn't even in the bottom 300! If Luongo is a top ten goalie then by comparison Nash would have to be a top 60 forward, which he definitely is.

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Old
07-07-2012, 01:15 PM
  #29
Shareefruck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xander Crews View Post
Its because thats all 100% opinion... thats why people say you cant compare them. Sure you CAN compare them but its going to be different for every person since there is nothing to directly compare. When you compare something that is 100% opinion it becomes a futile effort since you cant ever convince anyone your right... cause youre really not since there is no 'right'.

You can say you like an orange better than an apple but that doesnt mean an orange IS better than an apple.
You can say that an apple is better than another apple, but that doesn't make it true either-- Everything is opinion, including a comparison of players who are similar.

I just think it's a meaningless phrase. If two players are close enough in effectiveness that you can't decide between them, it's pretty well just as likely that you wouldn't be able to decide between them if they played the same position than if they played a different one.

It's anal, and totally doesn't matter, but it's just something that's always annoyed me. The impression of "Wow, this guy's being really insightful, thoughtful, and fair" that the comment gives off is totally inflated compared its meaning/worth, which is very little.


Last edited by Shareefruck: 07-07-2012 at 01:33 PM.
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Old
07-07-2012, 01:49 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Monkey Boy View Post
hmmm no. How does Nash, making over 7mil a season, have better value than an vezina-nominated goalie with a 5.3 cap hit?
Because he's a goalie so not everyone will be in on Lu, maybe 3 teams. Goalies always hold less value in deals but more value on the ice. It's always a limited market when dealing a goalie.

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Old
07-07-2012, 02:24 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs87 View Post
I think toronton needs a big body like Nash more if we were to go after one
a goalie is/has to be toronto's #1 priority

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07-07-2012, 02:26 PM
  #32
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If either player is still available at the deadline, pity us all.

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Old
07-07-2012, 02:30 PM
  #33
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I'd rather have Nash. Pernennial 30-40 goal scorer and that's on a bad team with no top line center, very hard to find those, not to mention the contract situation of Luongo.

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Old
07-07-2012, 02:48 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Rickety Cricket View Post
At half-time during soccer games growing up, I preferred oranges.
Definitely! And cut into wedges so you can eat in one bite and act like th orange is a mouth guard.

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Old
07-07-2012, 04:51 PM
  #35
Haj
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Nash scores more goals than Luongo....

but Luongo has a higher save percentage than Nash....


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Old
07-07-2012, 05:00 PM
  #36
danishh
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nash: 47.4M 6 years 7.8 cap
luongo: 40.28M 6 years 5.333333 cap (last four years of his contract are likely throwaway years)

Luongo is a top 5 goalie. Not sure Nash is a top 10 winger even.

Most teams already have a starting goalie. No teams have 4 top 6 wingers they are happy with.

So...
If you're one of the few teams looking for a starting goalie upgrade, luongo is more valuable to you. Otherwise, it's Nash.

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Old
07-07-2012, 05:03 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcontentCapsFan View Post
Nash. Take the guy that plays 82 games over the guy that is only going to play 60.
But in those 60 games that guy will be on the ice for 60 minutes, whereas Nasher will be on the ice for 20.

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Old
07-07-2012, 07:38 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Luongo is easily the better player, but I'd say Nash has the better value. If this make sense.
Of course it make sense!! Skill doesn't equal value. Contract, Skill, Potential, supply and demand determine value.

Let see once both are traded who will get the better return. My money is on Nash.

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Old
07-07-2012, 07:52 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
But in those 60 games that guy will be on the ice for 60 minutes, whereas Nasher will be on the ice for 20.
Soo you're saying... 60x60 = Luongo will play 3600 mins vs Nash playing... 82x20... 1640 mins. so... Luongo = better?


Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
nash: 47.4M 6 years 7.8 cap
luongo: 40.28M 6 years 5.333333 cap (last four years of his contract are likely throwaway years)

Luongo is a top 5 goalie. Not sure Nash is a top 10 winger even.

Most teams already have a starting goalie. No teams have 4 top 6 wingers they are happy with.

So...
If you're one of the few teams looking for a starting goalie upgrade, luongo is more valuable to you. Otherwise, it's Nash.
This is brilliantly broken down. Everything you say is true.

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Old
07-07-2012, 07:54 PM
  #40
ChillyPalmer
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Nash

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Old
07-07-2012, 07:58 PM
  #41
palindrom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
But in those 60 games that guy will be on the ice for 60 minutes, whereas Nasher will be on the ice for 20.
And how many of these minutes the Goalie is actually doing something usefull?

Half the game the puck is in the opponent zone.

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Old
07-07-2012, 08:00 PM
  #42
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Nash is a 60 point player being paid like a 90 point player. Ridiculously overrated.

Luongo is a better goalie than Nash is a winger AINEC.

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Old
07-07-2012, 08:08 PM
  #43
palindrom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Hate Jay Feaster View Post
Nash is a 60 point player being paid like a 90 point player. Ridiculously overrated.

Luongo is a better goalie than Nash is a winger AINEC.
So we should compare Nash to the average Winger and Luongo to the average goalie.

An average NHL winger will have about 15 points (Frattin, Ashams, Buttler, Mayers) vs 59 for Nash last season.

The average NHL goalie had around .913% while luongo had .919%
Luongo impact over an average goalie was about 12 goals less allowed over the entire season.

I quick look tell me Nash is much more superior to the average winger, than Luongo is superior to the average NHL goalie (Budaj, Clemensen, Anderson, Varlamov). But we could put more study on the topic.

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Old
07-07-2012, 08:09 PM
  #44
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Nash is so damn overrated. Luongo AINEC.

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07-07-2012, 08:12 PM
  #45
Xander Crews
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
You can say that an apple is better than another apple, but that doesn't make it true either-- Everything is opinion, including a comparison of players who are similar.

I just think it's a meaningless phrase. If two players are close enough in effectiveness that you can't decide between them, it's pretty well just as likely that you wouldn't be able to decide between them if they played the same position than if they played a different one.

It's anal, and totally doesn't matter, but it's just something that's always annoyed me. The impression of "Wow, this guy's being really insightful, thoughtful, and fair" that the comment gives off is totally inflated compared its meaning/worth, which is very little.
But you can compare qualities of 2 like things... Like you can say this apple is bigger than that apple, or whatever. There are facts you can look at to compare them if theyre similar. Just like players you can say infact this forward is bigger, or this forward has a harder shot, or is faster or whatever. Those can all be facts not opinions. How much they matter to you is still and opinion sure. But you cant compare those facts from forward to goalie. Cause you cant compare one having a harder shot to the other or whatever so there are no relevant facts to compare. Its 100% opinion where the other is more like 50% since you have facts and just use you opinion to decide how to weigh them.

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Old
07-07-2012, 10:18 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by 8th Rounder View Post
I'd rather have Nash. Pernennial 30-40 goal scorer and that's on a bad team with no top line center, very hard to find those, not to mention the contract situation of Luongo.
Just imagine Nash next to Crosby or Spezza or Datsyuk. Just get him out of the Central. The sooner Nash gets out of Columbus the better for him.

Everytime Nash plays in an international tournament, I hear nothing but about how great Nash is. And I can see it when he isn't playing with scrubs.

I don't want him on my team (cap hit) but for teams that missed out on Parise, he is a good back-up option at the right price (trade wise).

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Old
07-07-2012, 10:23 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by MalcontentCapsFan View Post
Nash. Take the guy that plays 82 games over the guy that is only going to play 60.
Dumb dumb dumb dumb

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Old
07-07-2012, 10:25 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by 8th Rounder View Post
I'd rather have Nash. Pernennial 30-40 goal scorer and that's on a bad team with no top line center, very hard to find those, not to mention the contract situation of Luongo.
But nash's contract is worse WTF

And lmao @ luo being an average goalie. Yet top in the league and Nash being this 100 pt player yet he isn't

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Old
07-07-2012, 10:37 PM
  #49
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I'd say Luongo because you know what you're getting. Nash is a great player but part of his value has yet to be determined - What can he do playing on a good team with good linemates? He'll be great wherever he goes but its impossible to tell if his contract will be fair or become a liability.

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Old
07-07-2012, 10:41 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorthander View Post
I'd say Luongo because you know what you're getting. Nash is a great player but part of his value has yet to be determined - What can he do playing on a good team with good linemates? He'll be great wherever he goes but its impossible to tell if his contract will be fair or become a liability.
Wait, you're saying Luongo is better because Nash has potentially more upside?

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