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Old
07-07-2012, 10:42 AM
  #51
Mystifo
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Originally Posted by jonlin View Post
Koivu IS better than Kesler! Koivu plays PK, PP, hell any situation! Hes played on a ****** Wild, whereas Kesler plays on a contender! Vancouvers D has been superior to Wilds for ages - helps Keslers defensive play a lot!
I`ll bet u 1000$ that Koivu will have much better stats than Kesler in the same amount of games this year when he finally get help!

Still:

Kesler NHL TOTALS 561 153 184 337 45 501 50 9 19 1,282 11.9

Koivu NHL TOTALS 488 108 253 361 24 334 36 9 14 1,204 9.0

As u all c - Koivu has better stats than Kesler alrdy. Playing with guys like Miettinen. I`d like to see Keslers stats on Wild and Koivus with Vancouver...

Thank you. Koivu is such an underrated center. I can't wait to see him feeding Parise the puck.

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Old
07-07-2012, 10:44 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
There are other sources that have been populating these forums for a while now.. go check through the Luongo threads. I don't have time to search through like 10 threads for a pretty common knowledge thing, but taken from the thread in the Toronto forum:


TSN has also run a few stories on it.

And Burke has stated multiple times that he will not be giving up anything of significance for him, which is what this thread is suggesting.
Lebrun already shutdown those comments, and he is by far a more credible source

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Old
07-07-2012, 10:49 AM
  #53
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I don't think people realize how good Jensen is gonna be.

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Old
07-07-2012, 10:49 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
There are other sources that have been populating these forums for a while now.. go check through the Luongo threads. I don't have time to search through like 10 threads for a pretty common knowledge thing, but taken from the thread in the Toronto forum:


TSN has also run a few stories on it.

And Burke has stated multiple times that he will not be giving up anything of significance for him, which is what this thread is suggesting.
Burke hasn't even uttered his name, he has said he will not gut his team for said player. There is a difference between "gutting the team" and "anything signifigant".

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Old
07-07-2012, 10:51 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by xAlex916 View Post
There is a difference between good and average.

He is average at most things.

He is above average defensively.
Lol the only thing he is average at is his offensive vision. This is such a dumb statement. His speed and power is exceptional. His shot is exceptional abd his defensive game is exceptional.

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07-07-2012, 10:51 AM
  #56
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What a joke.

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Old
07-07-2012, 10:54 AM
  #57
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Koivu and Kesler are really close. I give speed to Kesler and shot to Kesler. Offensive instincts and passing/playmaking ability to Koivu and I'd take Kesler defensive game over Koivus but they are really comparable.

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Old
07-07-2012, 10:55 AM
  #58
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Lots of moving parts, but this is actually a fair deal. Hard to stomach the thought of Kesler and Edler leaving, but we do get Weber, and that alone is worth the price of admission.

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Old
07-07-2012, 10:58 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuck This View Post
I don't think people realize how good Jensen is gonna be.
Not better then Wilson.. IMO or a high 1st for Fisher makes No sense for Nashville .. WEBER for the other 3 .... I would never do

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Old
07-07-2012, 11:04 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xAlex916 View Post
There is a difference between good and average.

He is average at most things.

He is above average defensively.
I didn't know that above average defensive players could win an award for best defensive player in the NHL

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Old
07-07-2012, 11:05 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torque View Post
Lots of moving parts, but this is actually a fair deal. Hard to stomach the thought of Kesler and Edler leaving, but we do get Weber, and that alone is worth the price of admission.


Our 2nd best forward and a 1st for Luongo and flaccid Mason Raymond?

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden
You wanna move Luongo? The price is Lombardi and a couple of picks / prospects of the 2nd/Percy/Blacker/Ashton variety. It really is that simple. You could do something involving MacArthur as well, but those are the kinds of players we're talking about.

Toronto isn't going to trade a guy who was a point-per-game player last year, and isn't going to trade their first round pick. They're also not going to view Komisarek as negatively as the consensus on HFboards, because with the loss of Schenn, they actually need him.

And no.... Toronto has absolutely no interest / need for Mason Raymond. They're overloaded with middle-of-the-lineup wingers.
Again, not getting those prospects. Sorry, but our 1st round picks aren't going the other way. Lombo, maybe Holzer. Maybe D'amigo, Hamilton or Kenny Ryan. That's what's available for him, and anyone who thinks more than that is still delusional about it.

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Old
07-07-2012, 12:06 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xAlex916 View Post
Crosby
Malkin
Datsyuk
Giroux
Stamkos
Toews
Tavares
Benn
Spezza
Kopitar
Zetterberg
Getzlaf
Bäckström
H. Sedin
Bergeron
E. Staal
Nugent-Hopkins
M. Koivu
M. Richards
Thornton

There's 20 better centers right there.
You're wrong on:

Nugent-Hopkins, he will be better almost assuredly, but for now, he's played one year with 18 G and 52 points and injuries could pose a problem.

M. Richards, I'd say Brad maybe, but not Mike. He hasn't scored more than 23 G in each of the last 2 seasons. Defensively, he may be Kesler's equal, but his production has dropped off considerably.

Bergeron, Defensively even at best and since 05-06 he hasn't eclipsed 22 G in a season. This isn't even close frankly.
Benn (Hasn't come close to Kesler's offensive peak and not as good defensively)

Others are questionable including Getzlaf who is probably better, but is coming off a horrendous year, Eric Staal who is again coming off a poor season and is atrocious defesively, and Thornton who appears to be diminishing slightly at this point. I would put Kesler probably just on the outside of the top 15, but it is close.

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07-07-2012, 12:27 PM
  #63
Al Swearengen
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Originally Posted by medgett View Post
You're wrong on:

Nugent-Hopkins, he will be better almost assuredly, but for now, he's played one year with 18 G and 52 points and injuries could pose a problem.

M. Richards, I'd say Brad maybe, but not Mike. He hasn't scored more than 23 G in each of the last 2 seasons. Defensively, he may be Kesler's equal, but his production has dropped off considerably.

Bergeron, Defensively even at best and since 05-06 he hasn't eclipsed 22 G in a season. This isn't even close frankly.
Benn (Hasn't come close to Kesler's offensive peak and not as good defensively)

Others are questionable including Getzlaf who is probably better, but is coming off a horrendous year, Eric Staal who is again coming off a poor season and is atrocious defesively, and Thornton who appears to be diminishing slightly at this point. I would put Kesler probably just on the outside of the top 15, but it is close.
You lost me on Getzlaf. I would trade Kesler for him in a heart-palpitation.

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Old
07-07-2012, 12:45 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Nuck This View Post
I don't think people realize how good Jensen is gonna be.
I already know how good Weber is. Preds have 4 players (Josi, Elllis, Blum, Ekholm) with similar type futures adding one more does not excite me.

This package is a screw job to both the Leafs (why do they have to give up a 1st to Van?) and Preds lose Weber (guaranteed Norris winner in Vancouver), Fisher and Wilson.

Leafs get a Goalie on the downside of his career, and Raymond and lose what could be a top 10 pick (this trade does make them a play off team) a PPG player and Komisarek (salary dump)

Preds lose Weber (best player in franchise history and would be multiple Norris winner if he played in a larger market), Fisher (our #1 center), and Wilson (former top 10 pick) and receive Kesler who is often injured, a blatant diver and hated player here, Elder(who himself becomes a UFA soon), A redundant D prospect, a low1st round draft pick, and Komisarek.

Vancouver gets the best Dman in the game, A PPG player, 2 very good centers, and a top 10 pick. They lose their Goalie that is becoming a headcase, A 2nd pairing Dman, a 2nd line player, a D Prospect, and a low draft choice.

Hell Burke and Poile are so excited at this proposal that they will give the Canucks Erat, Rinne, Phaneuf, and JVR in this deal to insure that Vancouver is a dynasty for the next 10 years

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Old
07-07-2012, 12:54 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Al Swearengen View Post
You lost me on Getzlaf. I would trade Kesler for him in a heart-palpitation.
I have a tough time trading Kes for anybody, not based on talent, bu he seems to be one of our teams engines, as he goes we go. If trading him I think I would want that type coming back. Talent wise I think I am with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
I already know how good Weber is. Preds have 4 players (Josi, Elllis, Blum, Ekholm) with similar type futures adding one more does not excite me.

This package is a screw job to both the Leafs (why do they have to give up a 1st to Van?) and Preds lose Weber (guaranteed Norris winner in Vancouver), Fisher and Wilson.

Leafs get a Goalie on the downside of his career, and Raymond and lose what could be a top 10 pick (this trade does make them a play off team) a PPG player and Komisarek (salary dump)

Preds lose Weber (best player in franchise history and would be multiple Norris winner if he played in a larger market), Fisher (our #1 center), and Wilson (former top 10 pick) and receive Kesler who is often injured, a blatant diver and hated player here, Elder(who himself becomes a UFA soon), A redundant D prospect, a low1st round draft pick, and Komisarek.

Vancouver gets the best Dman in the game, A PPG player, 2 very good centers, and a top 10 pick.

Hell Burke and Poile are so excited at this proposal that they will add Erat, Rinne, Phaneuf, and JVR to this deal to insure that Vancouver is a dynasty for the next 10 years

You lost me at the bolded. While this trade is terrible for NSH, if those are the players you are comparing Jensen to, you don't know who he is. Any of those players could and will be great, but comparing a dman to forward is bad, especially one with the tools of Jensen. He is a big strong kid with great wheels and shot, and can really pass the puck.

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Old
07-07-2012, 12:59 PM
  #66
Gnashville
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
You lost me at the bolded. While this trade is terrible for NSH, if those are the players you are comparing Jensen to, you don't know who he is. Any of those players could and will be great, but comparing a dman to forward is bad, especially one with the tools of Jensen. He is a big strong kid with great wheels and shot, and can really pass the puck.
I thought he was a Dman

Still though this trade throws us into rebuild mode for 5 years


Last edited by Gnashville: 07-07-2012 at 01:10 PM.
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Old
07-07-2012, 01:01 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
I thought he was a Dman
It happens to the best of us

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Old
07-07-2012, 01:14 PM
  #68
racerjoe
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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
I thought he was a Dman

Still though this trade throws us into rebuild mode for 5 years
I agree, it was a terrible deal on your end.

The weber saga, really intrigues me, the entire will he go will he stay, what NSH can get for him. If he goes, there is a definite time line on him that could really hamper the return, as could the fact it really ends up being his choice where he goes, but we are talking still about the best dman in the game.

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Old
07-07-2012, 01:21 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by xAlex916 View Post
Well, Toronto thinks they can get good players for junk.
It's been proven that we can lol. Remember that trade where we got Lupul and Gardiner?

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Old
07-07-2012, 01:24 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
He is a hell of a player, but not top-15.

He scored 40 goals once, on a president-trophy winning team, and he still didn't top 75 points. His next highest is 26 goals.
I was just about to say that

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Old
07-07-2012, 01:35 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
I already know how good Weber is. Preds have 4 players (Josi, Elllis, Blum, Ekholm) with similar type futures adding one more does not excite me.

This package is a screw job to both the Leafs (why do they have to give up a 1st to Van?) and Preds lose Weber (guaranteed
Norris winner in Vancouver), Fisher and Wilson.

Leafs get a Goalie on the downside of his career, and
Raymond and lose what could be a top 10 pick (this trade does
make them a play off team) a PPG player and Komisarek (salary
dump)

Preds lose Weber (best player in franchise history and would be multiple Norris winner if he played in a larger market), Fisher (our #1 center), and Wilson (former top 10 pick) and receive Kesler who is
often injured, a blatant diver and hated player here, Elder(who
himself becomes a UFA soon), A redundant D prospect, a low1st
round draft pick, and Komisarek.

Vancouver gets the best Dman in
the game, A PPG player, 2 very good centers, and a top 10 pick.
They lose their Goalie that is
becoming a headcase, A 2nd
pairing Dman, a 2nd line player, a
D Prospect, and a low draft choice.

Hell Burke and Poile are so excited at this proposal that they will give the Canucks Erat, Rinne, Phaneuf, and JVR in this deal to
insure that Vancouver is a dynasty for the next 10 years
This post is hilarious. Kesler and Edler are 2nd line players and 2nd pairing dman, who would easily be on the 1st line and 1st pairing in Nashville. How is Lupul a ppg player, he's a 50 point player that's had one ppg season. Also, the reason Kesler is hated is because he dominated you. He wouldn't be hated if he were on your team. Also, why would the Canucks trade 2 of their best players for Weber, when theirs a chance of getting him as a ufa next season. You even called Jensen a dman, that shows how much you know about the Canucks.

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Old
07-07-2012, 01:52 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heathfilms View Post
To Nashville

Ryan Kesler (top 15 forward)
Alex Elder (top 15 dman)
Van's 1st Rounder
Nicklas Jensen
Mike Komisarek

To Vancouver

Weber
Tor's 1st Rounder
Joffrey Lupul
Mike Fisher
Colin Wilson

To Toronto

Luongo
Mason Raymond

Okay I know this is alot but he is the breakdown.

Toronto trades

Mike Komisarek, 1st Rounder 2013 and Joffrey Lupul

for

Luongo and Mason Raymond

(this is rumored as what van's wants for Luongo and this is what toronto wants from van's)

Vancouver Trades

Ryan Kesler, Alex Elder, Van's 1st Rounder, Nicklas Jensen, Mike Komisarek

To Nashville for

Weber, Mike Fisher, Colin Wilson

Why Nashville does this

they get a great return for weber, they finally get a #1 center in Ryan Kesler + #1 dman in Alex Elder a great replacement for weber + they get a 1st Rounder + Nicklas Jensen + Mike Komisarek for Fisher and Wilson. they add 4.5 million salary to get them to the cap floor so with this trade they add 12.75 million to help them to get to the cap floor and with only losing 4.2 million they add 8.5 million to their cap

why Vancouver does this

one they don't have to deal with Mike Komisarek contract. They get there #1 dman for the next 10-12 years. They get a great #2 center to replace Kesler and they also get a great #3 center in Colin Wilson from the Nashville + they get Lupul from Toronto to complete there top 6. also with them freeing 8.5 million that will be enough cap for them to sign Weber long term.

why Toronto does this

simple they get there #1 goalie for the future + they get Raymond to replace Lupul

I think the value is fair give me your thought?

I wonder if this is a Vancouver fan?

Leafs give up Lupul and a 1st for pretty much Luongo is a joke.

But that is not even the worst part.

Nashville gets *****.



So pretty much Vancouver trades

Luongo- Good goalie but terrible contract
Kesler- Good 2 way center, who can pot some goals, but is injured
Edler- Top 4 PMD
Raymond- 3rd line winger with speed

a very late 1st round pick
and a prospect


and Get back

Weber- One of the best defenceman in the game period!
Lupul- a strong power forward who was a PPG last year. Assistant captain of the all star team
Fisher- A strong 2 way forward who plays very similar game to Kesler
Wilson- A top 6 forward prospect with size, who will break out if he gets traded

Come on bud. Be serious. To even get Weber, it would cost Kesler, Edler, Raymond and a 1st. And with other teams like Philly sending offers, that probably still wouldn't be enough for one of the best defenceman in the game. Then you want Lupul, Fisher and Wilson
for Luongo and a late 1st round pick and a average prospect?

I dont' know what to say but

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Old
07-07-2012, 02:00 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavy View Post
I was just about to say that
I know. People say Lupul is one good season so he isnt worth anything.

Kesler is one good season when he had 40 goals. But the guy was playing on the top powerplay line up with the bloody Art Ross trophy winners.

Lupul was playing with Bozak and Kessel. Compared to The Sedins. I would like to hope Kesler is getting 30 to 40 goals. And his next best season is 26 goals.

So come Vancouver fans, if you think Lupul is worth nothing then so does Kesler. Cuz they both have similar value in real Gm's minds.

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07-07-2012, 02:05 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Gavy View Post
I was just about to say that
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavy View Post
It's been proven that we can lol. Remember that trade where we got Lupul and Gardiner?
And remember that trade for Phaneuf and Aulie for who? Who were those scrubs again? Oh yeah, Stajan, Hagman, Mayers and White.

And that Lombardi and Franson trade for who was it again. That all star everyone was said to see go. Oh yeah. Robert Slaney.

Or how about a top 4 PMD in Liles for a 2nd round pick.

Or 2 of the worst contracts at the time of the trade in Toskala and Blake for Giguere.


That's the main reason no one wants to trade with Burke, theyare scared of getting flecced.

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Old
07-07-2012, 02:06 PM
  #75
racerjoe
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Originally Posted by Leafsforlife98 View Post
I know. People say Lupul is one good season so he isnt worth anything.

Kesler is one good season when he had 40 goals. But the guy was playing on the top powerplay line up with the bloody Art Ross trophy winners.

Lupul was playing with Bozak and Kessel. Compared to The Sedins. I would like to hope Kesler is getting 30 to 40 goals. And his next best season is 26 goals.

So come Vancouver fans, if you think Lupul is worth nothing then so does Kesler. Cuz they both have similar value in real Gm's minds.

Kes is a Selke winner, and nominee, even if he doesn't score another goal in his career, that alone makes him more valuable then Lupul, not trying to bash him, but be reasonable.

And Edler is an Allstar dman.

Again NSH gets hosed in this deal, but some people have to be honest with their talent evaluations.

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