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Sens Board Prospect Rankings 2012 (9th)

View Poll Results: Vote for our #9 Prospect
Darren Kramer 0 0%
Jarrod Maidens 2 1.49%
Ben Blood 0 0%
Mike Hoffman 23 17.16%
Chris Wideman 0 0%
Jakub Culek 0 0%
Fredrik Claesson 1 0.75%
Michael Sdao 0 0%
Patrick Wiercioch 4 2.99%
Mark Borowiecki 43 32.09%
Andre Petersson 9 6.72%
Stephane Da Costa 35 26.12%
Jim O'Brien 11 8.21%
Jean-Gabriel Pageau 5 3.73%
Derek Grant 1 0.75%
Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-06-2012, 01:12 AM
  #26
WhiteLight
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Originally Posted by stempniaksen View Post
Was between Borocop and JOB for me, went with Borocop to try and make sure SDC doesn't get the spot.


Why?

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07-06-2012, 01:56 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
Caporusso doesn't have top 6 upside. At all. No NHL upside to speak of.
That was my point. He had the potential when he was drafted to play top 6, now he has no shot. Read carefully.

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Old
07-06-2012, 05:25 AM
  #28
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borveeeehtskiiiii AINEC

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07-06-2012, 05:56 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post


Why?
Lol, no kidding. Went with Da Costa. I can't believe he's dropped this low.

Da Costa has proven he can put up points at the professional level. He potted 5 points in 22 games in the NHL, and didn't look out of place, in his first year out of college. He put up 7 points in the WC this year for the perennially crappy French team, which over-performed in large part because of him. It blows my mind this guy isn't considered one of our top prospects. I don't see how guys who may never even make the NHL are now receiving votes ahead of a guy who's already been there.

Stat of the day: Da Costa scored 3 goals in 22 games for the Senators last season. That works out to a full season pace of 11 goals. Which is the same number of goals that Foligno scored on an actual goalie last year. But then, Foligno is classified as a "top-6 forward", is he not? Ho-hum... Ho-hum...


Last edited by Goat Boy: 07-06-2012 at 06:08 AM.
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Old
07-06-2012, 06:22 AM
  #30
SixthSens
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Da Costa, add Driedger.

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07-06-2012, 08:22 AM
  #31
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Hoffman deserves this.

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07-06-2012, 08:24 AM
  #32
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Operation Hoffman.

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Old
07-06-2012, 08:28 AM
  #33
Mark Effin Stone
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Dacosta for sure, kind of underrated around here. Thought he showed good vision but needed some time in the minors to bulk up and get better in the own zone.

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07-06-2012, 08:34 AM
  #34
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Maidens with the potential to have the most impact at the nhl level imo.

that's who i'd pick if i was drafting. bpa
although it's getting tougher.


Last edited by Icelevel: 07-06-2012 at 08:53 AM.
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07-06-2012, 11:17 AM
  #35
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lol at Borowiecki at 9th

Yes he is more "NHL ready" (however Da Costa has played a lot more NHL games) but that's mainly because of his body and strenght.

That being said, he is not in same prospect class as Da Costa and Petersson... those 2 have a huge upside... Borowiecki? Not so much, just a solid 3rd pairing guy if everything pans out

Petersson could be a 1st liner and Da Costa could be a 2nd line center

This "NHL readiness" thing is crazy and shouldn't be regarded as the main factor when ranking prospects. It's a factor like any others. Upside and potential impact is the most important by far


Anyway, I'll keep voting Da Costa and Petersson for a while I guess, even if they'll lose vs depht players like Borowiecki and O'Brien

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07-06-2012, 11:34 AM
  #36
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2-3 years ago O'Brien figured very high in these rankings. Finally he makes the NHL and it doesn't look like he'll crack the top 10. Something is not right.

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Old
07-06-2012, 11:40 AM
  #37
Orange Thunder
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Boro. Add Driedger.

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07-06-2012, 11:46 AM
  #38
Lyndon Slewidge
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thinkin sdc and boro should have both been before prince and puemps

are we going with ceilings here? or readiness to make an impact, should be a mix of both

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07-06-2012, 12:47 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyndon Slewidge View Post
thinkin sdc and boro should have both been before prince and puemps

are we going with ceilings here? or readiness to make an impact, should be a mix of both
how about...pick the guy you would draft for the organization. not for this year, but for the future.

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07-06-2012, 12:53 PM
  #40
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Quote:
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2-3 years ago O'Brien figured very high in these rankings. Finally he makes the NHL and it doesn't look like he'll crack the top 10. Something is not right.
I'm not voting for O'Brien in any of these polls because in my mind he is already on the team. At twenty-three years old I think the fan base/management knows what this kid is going to be, and he has played enough games to lose his rookie status. I don't really care that he hasn't hit the 60 game mark or whatever this poll considers the cutoff point to be honest. Really I'd consider Cowen who has played more games to be more of a "prospect" than O'Brien at this time.

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Old
07-06-2012, 12:59 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
It's mostly about upside. Some/most top 6 prospects could play in the bottom 6 if they don't pan out... It's bottom 6 or bust for O'Brien, not even a possibility of playing an offensive role..
It shouldn't be mostly about upside, it should also be about likelihood. Guys like Prince, and Puempel have a long way to go before they're even close to making the show.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
lol at Borowiecki at 9th

Yes he is more "NHL ready" (however Da Costa has played a lot more NHL games) but that's mainly because of his body and strenght.

That being said, he is not in same prospect class as Da Costa and Petersson... those 2 have a huge upside... Borowiecki? Not so much, just a solid 3rd pairing guy if everything pans out

Petersson could be a 1st liner and Da Costa could be a 2nd line center

This "NHL readiness" thing is crazy and shouldn't be regarded as the main factor when ranking prospects. It's a factor like any others. Upside and potential impact is the most important by far


Anyway, I'll keep voting Da Costa and Petersson for a while I guess, even if they'll lose vs depht players like Borowiecki and O'Brien
You keep saying this without qualifying it.

WHY is potential impact the most important factor by far? I'll just use your example of Da Costa. Please tell me how this 'potential' top-6 player should be ranked higher than O'Brien? O'Brien is in the NHL, he's making an impact - but you try and knock him for being physically developed? Physicality and strength are SKILLS just as much as skating or puckhandling, albeit perhaps they are more closely tied to age than other skills like puckhandling.

Just to stay relevant to your arguments, I'll explain why Da Costa should NOT be factored into the prospect ranking as highly as you have him. Da Costa is an undersized skilled center who lacks strength. He's in his early twenties and hasn't made a significant impact in the NHL yet. He likely will never develop the skills required of a checking role, so he's your prototypical 'boom-bust' 2nd line center type of player. Why is that problematic? Because he's currently FOURTH on the Sens depth chart at center, at best. Spezza is a lock for the 1st line center position for the duration of his tenure here, ditto for Turris in the 2C slot. Zibanejad is arguably third on the depth chart at C, albeit he's likely to move to a wing unless management is comfortable with him as our 3C or if we move Turris to wing and Zibby goes C. Point being, there's no room on our NHL roster in the present nor in the near future to warrant much ice time for Da Costa. So where do you see space for Da Costa to develop? How do you figure he'll turn himself into an NHL caliber player on this team given its present situation? Our center depth has changed, so to must our evaluations of the relevance of our prospects at center. It's unfortunate for Da Costa, but he's lost quite a bit of relevance since the Turris acquisition.

I'm going to assume the natural counter-argument would be that he can convert to wing in the NHL. Again, you run into the problem of depth - Silfverberg, Michalek, Stone, Latendresse, and potentially one of Zibby or Turris will be competing for those top-6 roles in the near future. Add Noesen to that list if his development continues to excel. Again, you run into the problem of a lot of depth, a lot of competition, and a lot of players who are arguably more talented (higher upside) and more NHL ready (more developed) than Da Costa.

I don't see how you can legitimately argue that Da Costa is a 'better' prospect on this team than Jim O'Brien, who is much more NHL ready and much more likely to have a role on this team and get developmental minutes in the NHL with this club.

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Last edited by CanadianHockey: 07-06-2012 at 02:03 PM. Reason: Early, not mid.
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Old
07-06-2012, 01:28 PM
  #42
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^da costa is 22

but i agree he shouldn't be ranked that high

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07-06-2012, 01:30 PM
  #43
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Went with Petersson
This

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07-06-2012, 02:09 PM
  #44
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I voted Hoff instead of Da Costa because I too feel that Da Costa's path to the NHL is completely blocked at this point. But it's kind of unfair: how is that Da Costa's fault? And why should a prospect ranking depend on the depth chart of the team they belong to?

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07-06-2012, 02:37 PM
  #45
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Voted Da Costa because I still remember being from his first nhl goal where him and Karlsson passed it back and forth 3 times

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07-06-2012, 02:45 PM
  #46
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Went with the Hoff

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07-07-2012, 12:00 PM
  #47
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Lol, no kidding. Went with Da Costa. I can't believe he's dropped this low.

Da Costa has proven he can put up points at the professional level. He potted 5 points in 22 games in the NHL, and didn't look out of place, in his first year out of college. He put up 7 points in the WC this year for the perennially crappy French team, which over-performed in large part because of him. It blows my mind this guy isn't considered one of our top prospects. I don't see how guys who may never even make the NHL are now receiving votes ahead of a guy who's already been there.

Stat of the day: Da Costa scored 3 goals in 22 games for the Senators last season. That works out to a full season pace of 11 goals. Which is the same number of goals that Foligno scored on an actual goalie last year. But then, Foligno is classified as a "top-6 forward", is he not? Ho-hum... Ho-hum...
I agree thats why I voted for him, he has alot of high end talent and should not be counted out he is also clearly a late bloomer. His hockey sense is the best in the entire prospect pool (stones very close) You cant base everything on age when tracking a prospects development.

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07-07-2012, 02:54 PM
  #48
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I agree with people about SDC's vision, but I also see holes in his game that he may not be able to overcome (specificallydefence, ability to take a hit, ect) but maybe people who watch the Bingo games could chime in.

I don't want my previous comments to make it seem like I hate SDC, I'll just save my vote for him until atleast Boro and JOB are off the board.

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07-07-2012, 03:15 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philadelphia Collins View Post
Voted Da Costa because I still remember being from his first nhl goal where him and Karlsson passed it back and forth 3 times
The kid was more impressive than Zibanejad. I'd put Da Costa in my top9, with Puempel and Prince on the outside looking in.

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07-07-2012, 04:19 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stempniaksen View Post
I agree with people about SDC's vision, but I also see holes in his game that he may not be able to overcome (specificallydefence, ability to take a hit, ect) but maybe people who watch the Bingo games could chime in.

I don't want my previous comments to make it seem like I hate SDC, I'll just save my vote for him until atleast Boro and JOB are off the board.
His defensive game is severely underrated. The guy is a thief and can pick anyone's pocket. I specifically remember him picking Datsyuk's pocket in his first NHL game. Very very good at getting pucks off players in the neutral zone and his own end. He got caught out of position enough but nothing indicates that he won't be able to improve on this like essentially every first year pro does. I'd actually wager that he's going to be a very good two way player and probably be a big PK guy down the road.

As for not being able to take a hit....



He then got up and scored his first NHL goal.



Starts at about 5:14. One of the nicest goals of all last season for Senators imo.

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