HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Shea Weber

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-06-2012, 05:26 PM
  #126
Clown Baby
Registered User
 
Clown Baby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,627
vCash: 500
A real dick move would be a one year max offer-sheet. Weber's going to sign it because it's a max deal without any long-term strings attached. The Preds are going to match it because it's Weber. BUT, they can't trade his rights until free agency starts (I believe that's how it works) meaning no mega deal for Nashville.

Clown Baby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2012, 05:32 PM
  #127
tuckrr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,572
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clown Baby View Post
A real dick move would be a one year max offer-sheet. Weber's going to sign it because it's a max deal without any long-term strings attached. The Preds are going to match it because it's Weber. BUT, they can't trade his rights until free agency starts (I believe that's how it works) meaning no mega deal for Nashville.
Not 100% Nashville matches in that scenario. They just got burned by Suter.

tuckrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2012, 07:22 PM
  #128
Jtown
Registered User
 
Jtown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Fairfax, Virginia
Posts: 12,366
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Pittsburgh, the Rangers and Boston are lining themselves yup with more cap space then we currently have. More then 1 team will be able to offer the max contract Weber will command next offseason provided he is a UFA.
Do you put all your eggs in one basket for next offseason hoping Weber signs here?
I would say putting all your eggs in one basket would be trading for Weber and hoping he signs long term. If he chooses to not sign with us next year as a ufa then we still have a lot of eggs. Remember, we can always open up sufficent cap room to aquire a guy like him.

Right now what makes the flyers an elite team is its scoring depth. If we lose that then what makes us elite? We can win with the defense we have now, we just need this young team to grown. Last year we exceeded all expectation and right now the best move is to stand pat and show some patience with this group. The way the flyers are going to get better is through our young guys getting better, not by moving them.

Jtown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2012, 07:54 PM
  #129
SolidSnakeUS
Registered User
 
SolidSnakeUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pipersville, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 31,137
vCash: 500
From what I'm seeing right now, the idea of trying to get Weber right now sounds like a nightmare (more on the idea of even getting him to sign a long term contract or not).

SolidSnakeUS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2012, 09:51 AM
  #130
Larry44
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,336
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
People should view Weber as a long shot/pipe dream next offseason. Maybe Nashville does decide to trade him. Right now I dont know if we have the prospect assets to get him as some other teams do.
Since there is no reason for Weber to agree to an extension with an acquiring team, there is no way we should spend any assets to get his rights.

He will go UFA and let the bidding begin. We could take a shot, but who knows where he'll go. He may re-up in Nashville, esp. given that Suter screwed the team over by not giving them the right to match.

Also, Shea's apparently shocked, and his feelings are hurt because his buddy Ryan preferred to play with Zach in Minnesota.

Weber was planning to leave if they couldn't sign Suter, but Suter was lying all along, he didn't WANT to stay no matter what.

We'll have to see how it all plays out, maybe Weber will want to come play with his buddy Luke Schenn in Philly next summer....

Larry44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2012, 09:59 AM
  #131
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 112,563
vCash: 50
Weber is a still a free agent, so they can still find out what he thinks about playing in Philadelphia, just as the Flyers were going to try to do with Parise last year.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2012, 10:08 AM
  #132
healthyscratch
Registered User
 
healthyscratch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Philly
Posts: 5,462
vCash: 633
Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Weber is a still a free agent, so they can still find out what he thinks about playing in Philadelphia, just as the Flyers were going to try to do with Parise last year.
Good point. Couldn't they form a plan with Weber right now for next summer? Say Shea, hang tight for one more season and we'll make you the highest paid player in the league next July 1. OR, we'll hook you up with a max one year offer right now if you agree to go long term, if Nash matches, get rich for one season THEN we'll make you the highest paid player in the NHL. It's shady, but I'm sure it's been done before. Doesn't guarantee anything since he can use the Flyers and change his mind, but a gentleman's agreement is better than going in blind.

healthyscratch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2012, 10:16 AM
  #133
Prongo
Beer
 
Prongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 14,410
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Since there is no reason for Weber to agree to an extension with an acquiring team, there is no way we should spend any assets to get his rights.

He will go UFA and let the bidding begin. We could take a shot, but who knows where he'll go. He may re-up in Nashville, esp. given that Suter screwed the team over by not giving them the right to match.

Also, Shea's apparently shocked, and his feelings are hurt because his buddy Ryan preferred to play with Zach in Minnesota.

Weber was planning to leave if they couldn't sign Suter, but Suter was lying all along, he didn't WANT to stay no matter what.

We'll have to see how it all plays out, maybe Weber will want to come play with his buddy Luke Schenn in Philly next summer....
I am one not in favor waiting till Free agency to try to acquire Weber.

1) The prices he will get offered will absolutely drive his cap hit up. The Flyers offered the highest amounts(money wise) to Suter and Parise. They both turned down our offers. Weber will probably get a cap hit near or IMO over Crosby if he hits the open market. If we try to make a trade like the one we got Pronger with for him, we can try to sign him before those crazy contracts are offered to him. Now I am not saying he won't get a huge deal, but with him only negotiating with one team helps our case.

2) A good thing about trading for a player is they see how you value them. If we ship out 4-5 assets to bring him to Philly, he will hopefully understand the need we have for him and desire for him to play long term here.

3) If we want Weber, we really need to trade for him so we are not competing with 25 other teams for his services. That would absolutely bring our chances of acquiring him through free agency down dramatically. I will say though, this team does seem like a great spot for him to sign if he hits the UFA market. Young star center, good defensive depth, and a Stanley Cup contender.

Also everyone talking about Weber wanting to play in Vancouver, this isn't always the truth. If Weber is the type of person I think he would be, he would sign with a team that would give him the best shot long term for winning. Vancouver has some nice young pieces yes, but H and D Sedin will both be 32 next year. They are on the wrong side of their prime when he would be entering the organization. Also they don't have an overwhelming prospect pool(like the Flyers) that can keep them competing for many many years. Edler is also a UFA the same time Weber is, and that might hurt their chances of keeping him around as well. I would always choose Weber over Edler, but loyalty to the player that has been in your org for 7 years should have some kind of pull. They also most likely won't be able to keep both Weber and Edler if they get him.

The Flyers at least have very very young core and the chance to win for 5-7 years. If we could trade for Weber without giving Schenn or Couturier, this team would be a perennial contender for the duration of Weber's new contract. As long as Bryz holds up his part of the bargain.

Prongo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2012, 10:18 AM
  #134
Jack de la Hoya
Registered User
 
Jack de la Hoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 14,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Since there is no reason for Weber to agree to an extension with an acquiring team, there is no way we should spend any assets to get his rights.
That's not completely true--or, at least, it isn't necessarily completely true.

If Weber / agent believe that the new CBA will, in some way, restrict years / term, then he might have a material interest in extending long-term this summer--with Nashville or, more likely, someone else.

Jack de la Hoya is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2012, 10:20 AM
  #135
El Emperor
Registered User
 
El Emperor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Woodstown, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,300
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Pittsburgh, the Rangers and Boston are lining themselves yup with more cap space then we currently have. More then 1 team will be able to offer the max contract Weber will command next offseason provided he is a UFA.
Do you put all your eggs in one basket for next offseason hoping Weber signs here?
It really dosent matter who has the most cap space. Weber wants to win. Any smart player knows that signing a max contract is a kiss of death to your franchise.

The destination is going to be where Weber wants to play. Yeah, he will pick from teams that have space for a big contract, but I cant see him as the type that will go for the biggest contract without taking into consideration the teams offering.

If Bryz turns things around this season and our offense continues to score like last season, Philly could be a desirable destination.


Last edited by El Emperor: 07-07-2012 at 10:31 AM.
El Emperor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2012, 11:40 AM
  #136
achdumeingute
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NorCal
Posts: 2,295
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
I would say putting all your eggs in one basket would be trading for Weber and hoping he signs long term. If he chooses to not sign with us next year as a ufa then we still have a lot of eggs. Remember, we can always open up sufficent cap room to aquire a guy like him.

Right now what makes the flyers an elite team is its scoring depth. If we lose that then what makes us elite? We can win with the defense we have now, we just need this young team to grown. Last year we exceeded all expectation and right now the best move is to stand pat and show some patience with this group. The way the flyers are going to get better is through our young guys getting better, not by moving them.
We have already lost some of that depth. 5 guys also had career years. I'm thinking this is going to be a bit of a down year. Voraceck and the Schenns are going to make or break this season.

achdumeingute is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2012, 12:56 PM
  #137
Jtown
Registered User
 
Jtown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Fairfax, Virginia
Posts: 12,366
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
We have already lost some of that depth. 5 guys also had career years. I'm thinking this is going to be a bit of a down year. Voraceck and the Schenns are going to make or break this season.
5 guys did have career years. 5 guys also had their first year or bad years ( Couturier, Schenn, Read, Briere , Bryz)

I agree with you that the young guys are going to be the reason why we succeed or not. If schenn or Couturier or both can step in and solidify that 2nd line center spot then we will be better off than last season. The truth is we had one great line last year and a lot of PP goals. We need more consistency Even strength with the second line scoring. Hopefully Danny bounces back and one of our young centers steps up.

Jtown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2012, 01:11 PM
  #138
GoneFullHextall
Fire Berube
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 32,560
vCash: 50
Who do you give up for Weber tho? provided he signs a long term extension?
its going to cost more then Read, Cousins and a 3rd rounder.

GoneFullHextall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2012, 01:14 PM
  #139
Nuclear
Registered User
 
Nuclear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 982
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Who do you give up for Weber tho? provided he signs a long term extension?
its going to cost more then Read, Cousins and a 3rd rounder.
It has to be big, like Coburn + Couturier + 2013 1st + 2014 1st. If Pronger commanded essentially 4 first round picks, Weber will be the same or more.

Nuclear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2012, 01:22 PM
  #140
GoneFullHextall
Fire Berube
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 32,560
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuclear View Post
It has to be big, like Coburn + Couturier + 2013 1st + 2014 1st. If Pronger commanded essentially 4 first round picks, Weber will be the same or more.
The Flyers are definitely going have to give up at least 2 assets that people will be hesitant to give up.

GoneFullHextall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2012, 01:31 PM
  #141
Jtown
Registered User
 
Jtown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Fairfax, Virginia
Posts: 12,366
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuclear View Post
It has to be big, like Coburn + Couturier + 2013 1st + 2014 1st. If Pronger commanded essentially 4 first round picks, Weber will be the same or more.
That doesnt make us better. That makes us worst, and is pointless when we can wait 1 year and not have to give up anything to sign the guy.

Jtown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2012, 01:38 PM
  #142
Nuclear
Registered User
 
Nuclear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 982
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
That doesnt make us better. That makes us worst, and is pointless when we can wait 1 year and not have to give up anything to sign the guy.
I agree, I'm not advocating that we should sign him, I'm just acknowledging that it'll cost an arm and a leg. Pronger was at the end of his deal too.

Nuclear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2012, 01:39 PM
  #143
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Pittsburgh, the Rangers and Boston are lining themselves yup with more cap space then we currently have. More then 1 team will be able to offer the max contract Weber will command next offseason provided he is a UFA.
Do you put all your eggs in one basket for next offseason hoping Weber signs here?
I think you are correct that it is far from a lock that he'll sign here, but I also don't think the Flyers are a much improved team if you trade valuable pieces from the roster and a bunch of picks for him. For example if you trade Coburn and Couturier for him are you any closer to the Cup? I don't think so. He's an upgrade on Coburn, but the rest of your defense remains iffy (especially after Kimmo is done) and you're losing one of your most valuable forwards on top of it.

They are much better going to UFA and hope they land one or more of Weber, Enstrom, Edler, Vlasic.

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2012, 01:51 PM
  #144
Jtown
Registered User
 
Jtown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Fairfax, Virginia
Posts: 12,366
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuclear View Post
I agree, I'm not advocating that we should sign him, I'm just acknowledging that it'll cost an arm and a leg. Pronger was at the end of his deal too.
Ok i see. I think at this point in time Fans need to be patient with this group and stop with the " Weber will solve all of our problems" mantra.

Same can be said for nash, ryan, etc.

Jtown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2012, 01:56 PM
  #145
FlyerSithLord
Registered User
 
FlyerSithLord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Tinicum
Country: United States
Posts: 2,083
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to FlyerSithLord
If you trade for Weber this offseason, it's going to be a mega deal and you're going to need a guarantee that he signs an extension. Can you imagine the crippling damage trading all those assets for Weber and then he bolts?

FlyerSithLord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2012, 01:57 PM
  #146
GoneFullHextall
Fire Berube
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 32,560
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
I think you are correct that it is far from a lock that he'll sign here, but I also don't think the Flyers are a much improved team if you trade valuable pieces from the roster and a bunch of picks for him. For example if you trade Coburn and Couturier for him are you any closer to the Cup? I don't think so. He's an upgrade on Coburn, but the rest of your defense remains iffy (especially after Kimmo is done) and you're losing one of your most valuable forwards on top of it.

They are much better going to UFA and hope they land one or more of Weber, Enstrom, Edler, Vlasic.
which is exactly why the Flyers should stay away from Nash and Ryan right now. they dont have the depth to deal 2 more forwards for him.
As far as Weber goes, I agree. Weber is an obvious upgrade over Coburn, but losing Couturier would really sting. If Coburn is the only roster player Nashville would want(doubtfull) I would do it. the Flyers right now cant afford to be giving up multiple assets off the pro roster to acquire one player. Especially up front.

GoneFullHextall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2012, 02:03 PM
  #147
Jtown
Registered User
 
Jtown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Fairfax, Virginia
Posts: 12,366
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
which is exactly why the Flyers should stay away from Nash and Ryan right now. they dont have the depth to deal 2 more forwards for him.
As far as Weber goes, I agree. Weber is an obvious upgrade over Coburn, but losing Couturier would really sting. If Coburn is the only roster player Nashville would want(doubtfull) I would do it. the Flyers right now cant afford to be giving up multiple assets off the pro roster to acquire one player. Especially up front.
Especially with the dearth of talent we have waiting in our system. Our roster talent is amongst the best in the NHL but that is it. Laughton is instantly our best prospect and really we don't have much after that. A team that is flushed with talent in the minors will probably be more appealling to Nashville given that they will be team controlled for many years and cheap. For us that means Schenn and Couturier.

Jtown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2012, 06:34 PM
  #148
Damaged Goods
Registered User
 
Damaged Goods's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,027
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
I think you are correct that it is far from a lock that he'll sign here, but I also don't think the Flyers are a much improved team if you trade valuable pieces from the roster and a bunch of picks for him. For example if you trade Coburn and Couturier for him are you any closer to the Cup? I don't think so. He's an upgrade on Coburn, but the rest of your defense remains iffy (especially after Kimmo is done) and you're losing one of your most valuable forwards on top of it.

They are much better going to UFA and hope they land one or more of Weber, Enstrom, Edler, Vlasic.
That's why I would be happy to see them go the offer sheet route. 4 (probably late) 1st round picks stings a lot less than Coburn, Couturier, + going back in a trade. And if Nashville matches he is guaranteed to hit UFA in a year anyway.

Damaged Goods is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2012, 06:50 PM
  #149
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,005
vCash: 500
At this point...

Are you willing to offersheet Weber to a mega-deal for one year?

Route 1: Nashville matches. Then, should Weber walk to free-agency, Nashville is screwed because, having matched the offersheet, they cannot trade his rights before July 1st, 2013. Then pursue him in the open market against competition.

Route 2: Nashville does not match, and we fork over four 1st round draft picks for a one-year offersheet. We work through the year and pray we can sign him long-term making the offersheet worth it. If he signs then great, but if he doesn't sign, then we say goodbye to four 1st round picks for only a year of Weber.

We've already established that offersheeting him to a multi-year deal is not the brightest idea since Nashville gets the opportunity to match it. That would force Weber to stay in Nashville; something he may not want and something we definitely do not want.

And again, this one-year deal comes with significant risks, but I'd much rather lose four firsts that way than lose guys like the Schenns and/or Couturier via trade only for Weber to split.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2012, 07:03 PM
  #150
hockeyguy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 336
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
At this point...

Are you willing to offersheet Weber to a mega-deal for one year?

Route 1: Nashville matches. Then, should Weber walk to free-agency, Nashville is screwed because, having matched the offersheet, they cannot trade his rights before July 1st, 2013. Then pursue him in the open market against competition.

Route 2: Nashville does not match, and we fork over four 1st round draft picks for a one-year offersheet. We work through the year and pray we can sign him long-term making the offersheet worth it. If he signs then great, but if he doesn't sign, then we say goodbye to four 1st round picks for only a year of Weber.

We've already established that offersheeting him to a multi-year deal is not the brightest idea since Nashville gets the opportunity to match it. That would force Weber to stay in Nashville; something he may not want and something we definitely do not want.

And again, this one-year deal comes with significant risks, but I'd much rather lose four firsts that way than lose guys like the Schenns and/or Couturier via trade only for Weber to split.

not only that but if we do resign him to an extension, in 2 years when giroux is a rfa you can believe he gets an offersheet from nashville with all their cap space that we cant afford to match without blowing up our team

hockeyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:23 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.