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Is the Gangsta' pouting over Jagr?

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Old
07-07-2012, 01:10 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by megaforce View Post
just to revisit this thread after the post mortem.

I don't know if i was right about plex being demotivated by our jagr snub (altho everybody here derided me at the time for even speculating on the subject) but i was certainly right in worrying about his play, as his final numbers were far down from previous years where he scored as high as 70 points and 29 goals. So yeah. Here's his final numbers:
Gp 81 g 17 a 35 pts 52 pim 56 +/- -15
no you were totally right, this thread was definitely worth making, he was pouting over jagr, it was a very very smart assessment

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07-07-2012, 01:20 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by LyleOdelein View Post
In '10-11 Pleks put up 57 points in 77 games. In 08-09, Pleks saw a drop to 39 points from 69 points the year before. Last season wasn't even the biggest downward point swing we've seen from Plekanec in his time with the Habs.

It was an off-year for Plekanec, but certainly not a big enough deviation to be considered an anomaly. Looking at the revolving linemates, the tough defensive assignments and the overall awful play of the team as a whole should explain this without having to go to personal reasons. If you do insist on going there, I will reiterate that his wife having a baby was probably higher on his list of emotional concerns than the lack of Jagr's presence.
Thanks for the intelligent reply.

There is, from what I recall reading, a proven statistical relation between a downturn in productivity and parenthood.

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07-07-2012, 01:23 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Jagr said the Habs were #1 on his list, Bergevin said he had no interest in Jagr, so how do you get that he doesn't want to play here?
If that's true, I'm not pleased with Bergevin at the moment. Why wouldn't you bring in Jagr?

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07-07-2012, 01:26 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
If that's true, I'm not pleased with Bergevin at the moment. Why wouldn't you bring in Jagr?
On the conference call with the media after he signed with the Stars, he said Montreal was his first choice. I don't think Bergevin wanted him at that price.

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07-07-2012, 01:36 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megaforce View Post
Thanks for the intelligent reply.

There is, from what I recall reading, a proven statistical relation between a downturn in productivity and parenthood.
You'd think you would come and apologize, instead you came back and puffed out your chest.



Seriously though, this is a childs mentality you are portraying. Thats why people have/are mocking you.

You're assuming Pleks has the mentality of an 11 your old boy.

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07-07-2012, 01:38 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Shutdown View Post
On the conference call with the media after he signed with the Stars, he said Montreal was his first choice. I don't think Bergevin wanted him at that price.
That's silly. Assuming Armstrong wouldnt be signed if Jagr was and that we'd sign him for the same price Dallas did, we could certainly afford it. And that's with 6 million to sign PK and Diaz, and not even demoting Gomez....

My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Max Pacioretty ($1.625m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Jaromir Jagr ($4.550m)
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / David Desharnais ($0.850m) / Erik Cole ($4.500m)
Travis Moen ($1.850m) / Lars Eller ($1.325m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Brandon Prust ($2.500m) / Scott Gomez ($7.357m) / Ryan White ($0.688m)
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07-07-2012, 01:41 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
If that's true, I'm not pleased with Bergevin at the moment. Why wouldn't you bring in Jagr?
I think Molson and co. are likely to be the problem. Maybe not directly but if you bring in Jagr, you are almost forced into burying Gomez and probably trading Gionta and Bourque and bringing in someone like AK to work with Pleks and Jagr.

I think if you want to keep Pleks as a cornerstone piece you should at least make an effort to get some players that he meshes with. Failing to do that is telling Pleks he isn't an important piece of the puzzle.

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07-07-2012, 01:57 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megaforce View Post
Thanks for the intelligent reply.

There is, from what I recall reading, a proven statistical relation between a downturn in productivity and parenthood.
Zing!

If only I'd stuck to truly impacting psychological factors, like arguing that Pleks was grieving the loss of the chance to play with a countryman whom he went bicycling with a couple times.

Sorry for straying from your incredible, awe-inspiring, factual hypothesis with my inane interjection of irrelevant supposition. I should have known better than to try and contradict such a well developed argument.

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07-07-2012, 01:58 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Shutdown View Post
no you were totally right, this thread was definitely worth making, he was pouting over jagr, it was a very very smart assessment
Your assessment of his assessment is way off the mark

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07-07-2012, 02:11 PM
  #110
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I revived the thread because it's once again relevant, as the team has snubbed another excellent chance to sign Jagr.

I think Pleks could very well have another poor season for the same reason.

Those with experience with workplace motivation could see what I'm talking about (just a suggestion to you reader....why don't you google that term instead of attempting to pen a witty putdown).

There's clearly a downtown in Tommy's effectiveness since we missed on The Mullet.

You can only imagine that Tomas mutters every day to his wife and new baby how many goals he'd be scoring if he was given the chance to play alongside Jagr, as he did with such great success in international play.

When assembling a team, management often tries to assemble combinations that have worked well in the past. Pleks must realize that they've been blind to his needs and I feel sad for him and how it's affecting him.

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07-07-2012, 02:33 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megaforce View Post
I revived the thread because it's once again relevant, as the team has snubbed another excellent chance to sign Jagr.

I think Pleks could very well have another poor season for the same reason.

Those with experience with workplace motivation could see what I'm talking about (just a suggestion to you reader....why don't you google that term instead of attempting to pen a witty putdown).

There's clearly a downtown in Tommy's effectiveness since we missed on The Mullet.

You can only imagine that Tomas mutters every day to his wife and new baby how many goals he'd be scoring if he was given the chance to play alongside Jagr, as he did with such great success in international play.

When assembling a team, management often tries to assemble combinations that have worked well in the past. Pleks must realize that they've been blind to his needs and I feel sad for him and how it's affecting him.
I really don't think he cared about Jagr specifically. He probably cared more about playing with scrubs like Blunden and Darche for extended periods. That's the problem.

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07-07-2012, 02:42 PM
  #112
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Pleks is probably dissapointed by the non-signing of Jagr, but he won't cry forever. He's gonna give his all every night like he always did.

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07-07-2012, 03:00 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
I really don't think he cared about Jagr specifically. He probably cared more about playing with scrubs like Blunden and Darche for extended periods. That's the problem.
Exactly !

the guy was not given opportunities to shine and way too many minutes of ice-time to make up for lack of players and production from others (who were injured or just sucked like Cammy).

I wouid like as much as the next guy that Bergevin find him at least ONE better winger than Bourque or Gionta. Maybe Therrien gonna put Cole OR MaxPac with him next season ?

But one thing is sure: he will play less minutes on PK with all the new/better players Bergevin acquired or signed to play on the bottom-six. Should help too.

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07-07-2012, 03:00 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megaforce View Post
I revived the thread because it's once again relevant, as the team has snubbed another excellent chance to sign Jagr.

I think Pleks could very well have another poor season for the same reason.

Those with experience with workplace motivation could see what I'm talking about (just a suggestion to you reader....why don't you google that term instead of attempting to pen a witty putdown).

There's clearly a downtown in Tommy's effectiveness since we missed on The Mullet.

You can only imagine that Tomas mutters every day to his wife and new baby how many goals he'd be scoring if he was given the chance to play alongside Jagr, as he did with such great success in international play.

When assembling a team, management often tries to assemble combinations that have worked well in the past. Pleks must realize that they've been blind to his needs and I feel sad for him and how it's affecting him.
At this point it seems like you're portraying your own mindset on to another person.

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07-07-2012, 04:05 PM
  #115
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we can check, but jags is not the only dude in town.

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07-07-2012, 04:35 PM
  #116
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If success is based on signing a 40 something forward who's almost as slow as Gill, the club is in trouble. Jagr, at the right price, is a decent stop gap measure.

I believe Jagr and mgt spoke. I believe the Jagr camp made it clear what they were looking for. At that point Berg said they weren't interested. To be honest, I'm not interested in Jagr at the number Dallas signed him for.

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07-07-2012, 04:38 PM
  #117
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Maybe it's just me but I think taking on a bigger defensive load than he ever has before and playing only roughly a quarter-to-a-third of the season with the bona-fide top-6 wingers has more to do with Plekanec's downturn offensively. It's not just the PK minutes either, it's the hard-matchups against the opposition's best players combined with a proportion of defensive zone faceoffs he hasn't had before combined with the carousal of linemates many of whom aren't capable of playing effectively against top-opposition.

I don't think him maybe being upset at the Habs not signing a winger who, at this point in his career, probably can't handle the type of minutes Plekanec was a factor of any significance.


Last edited by Roke: 07-07-2012 at 04:44 PM.
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07-07-2012, 04:57 PM
  #118
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Pseudo-intellectuals like the opening poster do not deserve the light of day. The mere inability to comprehend that there are many potential explanations for a statistical downturn is one of the first signs that you are dealing with one not well versed in making inferences from statistics. It is one thing to speculate, it is another to assert that it is a certainty that Plekanec is butt hurt about Jagr.

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07-07-2012, 05:07 PM
  #119
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I'm sick and tired of the excuses that Plek didn't play with Cole or Pacioretty.

He did and when he did... Cole was not a good signing and Pacioretty was in a slump.

They demoted Cole first... They put him on the third line but Desharnais was the center of the third line and Cole suddenly became good again.

Not long after that same thing happened to Patch and that line became the only good line the habs had.

At one point the coach decided to change things up. He gave Pacioretty and Cole to pleks and the slumping Cammalleri to Desharnais with Leblanc for other winger.

Those 3 games were losts but the better line was the Leblanc Desharnais Cammalleri.

Cole and Patch then returned with Desharnais being happy campers till the end of the season and Cammalleri became a cancer in the room playing with Pleks.

The fact still is... Our best potential for points was Cammalleri and he mostly played with Plekanec. Our best two way center just couldn't make him produce enough.

My point... Desharnais was really our best center last year and that's why he was given two good wingers... Not the other way around.

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07-07-2012, 05:31 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by durojean View Post
I'm sick and tired of the excuses that Plek didn't play with Cole or Pacioretty.

He did and when he did... Cole was not a good signing and Pacioretty was in a slump.

They demoted Cole first... They put him on the third line but Desharnais was the center of the third line and Cole suddenly became good again.

Not long after that same thing happened to Patch and that line became the only good line the habs had.

At one point the coach decided to change things up. He gave Pacioretty and Cole to pleks and the slumping Cammalleri to Desharnais with Leblanc for other winger.

Those 3 games were losts but the better line was the Leblanc Desharnais Cammalleri.

Cole and Patch then returned with Desharnais being happy campers till the end of the season and Cammalleri became a cancer in the room playing with Pleks.

The fact still is... Our best potential for points was Cammalleri and he mostly played with Plekanec. Our best two way center just couldn't make him produce enough.

My point... Desharnais was really our best center last year and that's why he was given two good wingers... Not the other way around.
Great post. Interesting analysis.

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07-07-2012, 07:02 PM
  #121
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07-07-2012, 08:34 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by durojean View Post
I'm sick and tired of the excuses that Plek didn't play with Cole or Pacioretty.

He did and when he did... Cole was not a good signing and Pacioretty was in a slump.

They demoted Cole first... They put him on the third line but Desharnais was the center of the third line and Cole suddenly became good again.

Not long after that same thing happened to Patch and that line became the only good line the habs had.

At one point the coach decided to change things up. He gave Pacioretty and Cole to pleks and the slumping Cammalleri to Desharnais with Leblanc for other winger.

Those 3 games were losts but the better line was the Leblanc Desharnais Cammalleri.

Cole and Patch then returned with Desharnais being happy campers till the end of the season and Cammalleri became a cancer in the room playing with Pleks.

The fact still is... Our best potential for points was Cammalleri and he mostly played with Plekanec. Our best two way center just couldn't make him produce enough.

My point... Desharnais was really our best center last year and that's why he was given two good wingers... Not the other way around.
that doesnt explain why Plekanec ended the season playing with scrubs...

not sure DD would get 50 pts playing with guys like White, Blunden, Darche, Geoffrion, Moen for half the year or so...

I mean, you know that at some point we had a Geoffrion-Plekanec-White line right ?

think about this for a sec : Geoffrion will probably not make the team this year - not good enough, and yet he was our 2nd line winger for a few games last season...

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07-07-2012, 09:05 PM
  #123
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just came in to say im 100% certain pleky will have a very appreciable season 60-70pts if he is paired with a skilled and motivated winger.

That being said, Pleky is a consummate professional and will play his best every night every game like he always has, regardless of who is on his wings. He has the intelligence and versatility to play any role at key moments, and for that alone he is invaluable to the Habs.

also, im sure he has an opinion about the Jagr situation, and once again, being the great sportsman he is, he will not make a scene and "pout".

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07-07-2012, 09:19 PM
  #124
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Did you even watch Pleks play last year??? He was like a break away machine (had he converted even half the breakaways he had especially on the PK then easily would've had had at least 5 more goals)

Having wingers that were constant and weren't scrubs which can't convert give him at least another five assists (i am being quite conservative) and thats more points than David soft minutes + Consistently has best wingers Desharnais...

So good on your theory!

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07-07-2012, 09:22 PM
  #125
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By the way, why didn't we get Jagr? His first choice was Montreal, he only asked 4.5Millions and he would have been our best player....

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