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Is Peter Forsberg considered an elite goal scorer?

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Old
07-07-2012, 09:54 AM
  #76
VeddarRants
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Forsberg: elite player, not an elite goal scorer.

Forsberg is not overrated in the slightest. Just because a few posters pimp him up ( like the OP ) with ridiculous claims, it doesn't take anything away from what he did on the ice and his skill level. He was one of the three best players in the game for a number of years, a two-way force who was a playoff beast. The guy deserves every single ounce of what the moniker warrior means in regards to a professional athlete. It's a shame injuries robbed players like him and Lindros from performing more during their prime.

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07-07-2012, 09:56 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
Messier, Gretzky, Kurri, Jagr, Sakic, Beliveau, Howe, Hull are the only players with as many playoff games or more played with a higher goals per game. So .42 is a lot better than it sounds. Only the cream of the crop post those numbers over that many games.

I agree about that last bit though. Forsberg was a clutch player, not elite goal scorer.
To be fair, Messier, Gretzky etc. never took off an entire regular season then appeared fresh for the playoffs like Forsberg did.

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07-07-2012, 10:09 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeddarRants View Post
Forsberg: elite player, not an elite goal scorer.

Forsberg is not overrated in the slightest. Just because a few posters pimp him up ( like the OP ) with ridiculous claims, it doesn't take anything away from what he did on the ice and his skill level. He was one of the three best players in the game for a number of years, a two-way force who was a playoff beast. The guy deserves every single ounce of what the moniker warrior means in regards to a professional athlete. It's a shame injuries robbed players like him and Lindros from performing more during their prime.
That's what most people mean by overrated... I've seen the following happen on HFBoards:

-Forsberg beat Jagr/Sakic in polls for better player all time
-Forsberg be named a "top 10 center all time"
-Forsberg be named "top 20 player all time"
-Forsberg be named a power forward (he had a physical edge, but he also flopped at times and wasn't much of a fighter)
-Forsberg being the "best player of his time"

etc. etc. it goes on and on forever and ever just go to google and search "site:hfboards.com forsberg" and I guarantee you there will be at least a few posts in every thread pumping his tires as if he was the next lemieux.

The overrating due to ridiculous claims is more rampant than you think...

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07-07-2012, 10:10 AM
  #79
Protest
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Elite goal scorer? No.

Could he have scored 40 once or twice in a full season? Probably.

People always regurgitate the same info without ever putting a little thought into. "He never scored more than 30 goals!!!"

He also never shot the puck. You can't score if you don't shoot.

In the playoffs he focused more on scoring than on playmaking, and his career playoff goals per game works out to about 35 goals over the course of a full season. Also, remember that's during the playoffs when scoring is usually even lower than the regular season.

He never scored more than 30 goals because he never took more than 217 shots. That's just the style of game he played. He preferred playmaking. However, he had a career 14.7% shooting percentage. If he took more shots chances are that would come down, but he'd also have more goals.

If you watched him play on a regular basis you could see he had all the tools to score goals, he just preferred (and was better at) setting people up. He would not have been an elite goal scorer, but he probably could have broke 40 once and had a few 35 goal years simply by being a little more selfish. (AND STAYING HEALTHY)

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07-07-2012, 10:16 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by GuineaPig View Post
Players who had a 35+ goal season from 1997-2001:

Pavel Bure
Joe Sakic
Peter Bondra
Jaromir Jagr
Teemu Selanne
John LeClair
Ziggy Palffy
Tony Amonte
Alexander Mogilny
Milan Hejduk
Paul Kariya
Markus Naslund
Jeff O'Neill
Brendan Shanahan
Patrik Elias
Theoren Fleury
Bill Guerin
Eric Lindros
Miroslav Satan
Keith Tkachuk
Alexei Yashin
Scott Young
Brett Hull
Joe Nieuwendyk
Luc Robitaille
Adam Graves
Mike Modano
Owen Nolan
Sergei Berezin
Pavol Demitra
Joe Thornton
Jason Allison
Rob Brind'amour
Valeri Bure
Marius Czerkawski
Mario Lemieux
Martin Straka
Petr Sykora
Steve Yzerman




Forsberg was not one of them. I think it's safe to say he wasn't an elite goalscorer.
Ryan Smyth scored 39 in 1997. Just saying.

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07-07-2012, 10:20 AM
  #81
Wrath
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Eric Lindros was a better overall player than Forsberg ever was.
Oh god what have you done....


Hopefully the heat from the flame war will be enough to pop my popcorn, this is gonna be interesting...

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Old
07-07-2012, 10:29 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by bombers15 View Post
Ryan Smyth scored 39 in 1997. Just saying.
It's from '97-98 to 2000-01.

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07-07-2012, 10:54 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by 211 View Post
Let's be honest here, Forsberg was a superb goal scorer and could of had one or two 40 g campaigns if he really wanted to.


did he really need a 50 goal campaign to prove himself as being an elite goal scorer?
ummmm, yes.

usually when one wants to be an elite goal scorer, they need to score goals.
I don't even care if he could have scored even 40 goals in a year. he didn't.

I won't argue about his talent and how good he was. (or even argue about the fact I think he's the godfather of players "flopping" like it's the world cup)

but elite goal scorer ? no, no no.

I'm assuming the OP never came back to debate, and just started the thread to stir the pot.

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07-07-2012, 11:21 AM
  #84
TheGoldenJet
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Definitely not an elite goalscorer.

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07-07-2012, 11:25 AM
  #85
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To answer the OP's question, No. He was not an elite goal scorer. Maybe he could've been if he adjusted his style of play a bit and started to shoot more (just like Crosby did for example). But that is just pure speculation.

One funny thing though is that I have at least 200 goals with Forsberg on my computer, and i can honestly say that 40% of them is highlight reel material. And very, very few of them are just tap-ins and such.

It seems like he almost never scored any "garbage goals".

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07-07-2012, 01:21 PM
  #86
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Yea, he just chose not to... Kinda like when you're playing against your 11 year old neighbor. He didn't want to embarrass the others.

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07-07-2012, 01:24 PM
  #87
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Peter Forsberg was an elite level talent. Arguably one of the best forwards of the modern era.

Going back to the Lindros trade, I would not trade Lindros, ignoring injuries for both players, straight up for Forsberg.

Without question, the greatest Swede ever, in my books.

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07-07-2012, 03:23 PM
  #88
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when you think of ELITE goal scorers you think of guys that put up 40+ for 5+years, forsberg may have been an elite playmaker, but not an elite goal scorer.

The difference between elite and not is pretty clear, with the best example i can think of being michael ryder, he scores 25-35 and is a goal scorer, but not an elite one

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07-07-2012, 04:13 PM
  #89
Gord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheGiant View Post
Peter Forsberg was an elite level talent. Arguably one of the best forwards of the modern era.

Going back to the Lindros trade, I would not trade Lindros, ignoring injuries for both players, straight up for Forsberg.

Without question, the greatest Swede ever, in my books.
good for him, but that has nothing to do with the OP question.

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07-07-2012, 05:28 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Gord View Post
ummmm, yes.

usually when one wants to be an elite goal scorer, they need to score goals.
I don't even care if he could have scored even 40 goals in a year. he didn't.

I won't argue about his talent and how good he was. (or even argue about the fact I think he's the godfather of players "flopping" like it's the world cup)

but elite goal scorer ? no, no no.

I'm assuming the OP never came back to debate, and just started the thread to stir the pot.
no i just wanted other peoples opinion on the topic because i do believe he could've had 1-2 40 goal seasons and scored within the mid 30s, year in and year out( if he shot more)

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07-07-2012, 06:28 PM
  #91
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It's not a question of whether he wanted to or not, it wasn't needed in Colorado. Besides his forte was that of a playmaker, which he excelled at. After seeing him in SEL, Tre Kronor and the NHL I have no doubt at all that he could be a 40+ goal scorer if he sacrificed setting-up guys for going to the net. Ask Joe Sakic.

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07-07-2012, 06:29 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 211 View Post
no i just wanted other peoples opinion on the topic because i do believe he could've had 1-2 40 goal seasons and scored within the mid 30s, year in and year out( if he shot more)
Shooting the puck more isn't as easy as you are making it out to be.

An example being Ovechkin, he shoots the puck while being dry humped by defense man, Forsberg couldn't do that if he wanted to.

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07-07-2012, 06:48 PM
  #93
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Interesting stat is that amongst the 295 players with over 100 playoff games he is ranked 22 in g/g and 20 in goals.

So the answer is no for the regular season and maybe, depending on where you draw the line, for the postseason.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play..._asc=&offset=0

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07-07-2012, 06:59 PM
  #94
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Elite goal scorer? He's considered the greatest human being ever born on here.

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07-07-2012, 07:14 PM
  #95
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Forsberg never finished top 10 in goals ever.

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07-07-2012, 07:24 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drij View Post
well not many people did score over 35goals in the late 90's...
Uhhh.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by StrangeVision View Post
Not many people are elite goal scorers.
Exactly.

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07-07-2012, 09:56 PM
  #97
Gord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 211 View Post
no i just wanted other peoples opinion on the topic because i do believe he could've had 1-2 40 goal seasons and scored within the mid 30s, year in and year out( if he shot more)
if he did even that, it still wouldn't have made him an elite scorer.
just a good one.

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07-07-2012, 09:59 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pluppe View Post
Interesting stat is that amongst the 295 players with over 100 playoff games he is ranked 22 in g/g and 20 in goals.

So the answer is no for the regular season and maybe, depending on where you draw the line, for the postseason.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play..._asc=&offset=0

Just to point out, Forsberg's best playoff stats are from the year he skipped all 82 games and only appeared in the playoffs. The guy was so rested and fresh compared to everyone else.

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07-07-2012, 10:29 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Liberation View Post
Shooting the puck more isn't as easy as you are making it out to be.

An example being Ovechkin, he shoots the puck while being dry humped by defense man, Forsberg couldn't do that if he wanted to.
Wait...what? Forsberg was a monster with players drapped all over him, if you had said Jagr then you have a point, but Ovy? The rules don't even let defenders **** forwards the way they did when Peter did most of his damage.

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07-07-2012, 10:43 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberation View Post
Shooting the puck more isn't as easy as you are making it out to be.

An example being Ovechkin, he shoots the puck while being dry humped by defense man, Forsberg couldn't do that if he wanted to.
I could not agree with this post more. Shooting is such an underrated skill. Only the purest of goal scorers are able to put up 300+ shots on goal per season.

When people say "player X could score 40 goals if he just shot the puck more", it just makes me shake my head. Well of course Forsberg could score 40 goals if he took 300 shots. So could Jody Shelley!

He just does not possess the skill set to do so.

That doesnt mean he wasnt godly at everything else, it just means he just wasnt the purest shooter and certainly not an "elite goal scorer". He did have an excellent shot when he used it, but part of being an elite goal scorer is being able to use those skills. Forsberg's skill set lent itself to the style that he played.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cgf View Post
Wait...what? Forsberg was a monster with players drapped all over him, if you had said Jagr then you have a point, but Ovy? The rules don't even let defenders **** forwards the way they did when Peter did most of his damage.
You're missing the point.

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