HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Jeff Beukeboom returns to NYR organization

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-08-2012, 12:54 AM
  #51
Edge
Registered User
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sin City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,196
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Beuk is worse than the current top 4. Beuk couldn't break into the current top 4 and it wouldn't be close. Sauer when and if healthy is better, as well. He's a third pairing dman.

Leetch made Beuk, not the other way around.
Sometimes chemistry and the right people for the right role is worth far more than talent.

Edge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2012, 12:57 AM
  #52
CM PUNK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,312
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Beuk is worse than the current top 4. Beuk couldn't break into the current top 4 and it wouldn't be close. Sauer when and if healthy is better, as well. He's a third pairing dman.
that's laughable.

CM PUNK is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2012, 01:03 AM
  #53
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,710
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
that's laughable.
Which of the current top 4 would sit if Beuk was around today? You're right about one thing. It is laughable.

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2012, 01:08 AM
  #54
Brooklyn Ranger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn, of course
Posts: 8,124
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Which of the current top 4 would sit if Beuk was around today? You're right about one thing. It is laughable.
Beukeboom was from an different era. In any case, he fit in well with Leetch. Doesn't matter that his skill level wasn't up to playing on the 1st pair--they worked well together. That's all that mattered. We don't know where he'd fit in today.

Brooklyn Ranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2012, 01:09 AM
  #55
Edge
Registered User
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sin City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,196
vCash: 500
I am going to split the difference on CM Punk and Chosen on this one. Mainly because the days of lines and "top four" are pretty much over. It's all about combination sand situational deployment these days.

I will say that Beukeboom would look wonderful next to Michael Del Zotto these days.

Edge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2012, 09:49 AM
  #56
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,710
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
The closest we've had to Beuk since Beuk retired was Sauer.

Beuk was a very steady stay-at-home defenseman. Guy was a +63 over 8 seasons with the Rangers despite having only 90 points. Fans love the guy. How could you not.



Malik was +133, yet the fans hated him.

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2012, 09:57 AM
  #57
Crease
Registered User
 
Crease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,833
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Malik was +133, yet the fans hated him.
Over the course of his career, I assume? He was a +67 over three seasons with the Rangers, but certainly didn't pass the eye-test. He happened to be on the ice for a ton of Jagr's goals and played a very soft game. Rangers fans loathe big guys that don't use their bodies.

That being said, he was overly abused by the fans.

Crease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2012, 10:05 AM
  #58
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,710
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Over the course of his career, I assume? He was a +67 over three seasons with the Rangers, but certainly didn't pass the eye-test. He happened to be on the ice for a ton of Jagr's goals and played a very soft game. Rangers fans loathe big guys that don't use their bodies.

That being said, he was overly abused by the fans.
The eye test is code for wasn't a tough guy.

Beuk played with Mess and Leetch and a far better cast than Malik.

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2012, 10:10 AM
  #59
Crease
Registered User
 
Crease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,833
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
The eye test is code for wasn't a tough guy.

Beuk played with Mess and Leetch and a far better cast than Malik.
Interestingly, I just went through both guys' stats on Hockey-Reference.com. If you subtract Powerplay Goals Against (PGA) from Total Goals Against (TGA) you get a pretty good measure of how well the player is in his own zone even-strength.

Beuk - 520 games, 0.635 Even-strength goals against per game
Malik - 185 games, 0.595 Even-strength goals against per game

I didn't adjust for differences in scoring levels during their respective seasons.


I do agree, though, that Malik was overly beaten to death here by fans.


Last edited by Crease: 07-08-2012 at 10:17 AM.
Crease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2012, 02:59 PM
  #60
Edge
Registered User
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sin City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,196
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
The eye test is code for wasn't a tough guy.

Beuk played with Mess and Leetch and a far better cast than Malik.
However you also have to factor in the era and the systems they played in. The Oiler and Ranger teams that Beukeboom played on were never teams that would we be lead by their defensive commitments.

Edge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2012, 10:59 PM
  #61
trilobyte
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 13,478
vCash: 500
Comparing Beukeboom to Malik? I guess you could, though I don't understand why. They were very different types of player.

In the days of Scott Stevens, brawn and might ruled. Instead of the high-speed open ice variety of annhilation that Stevens excelled at, Jeff simply dared you to compete in his zone and then crushed you.

Nice to see him in the organization, actually, nice to know that the organization realizes why it is important to have him back.

Crease-clearing 101, coming soon to the Connecticut Whale, and all through the season.

Good stuff.

trilobyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2012, 07:02 AM
  #62
district9
Registered User
 
district9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 733
vCash: 500
this thread and the people trash talking beuk are unbelievable. asking who in the top 4 would sit for beuk is totally irrelevant because hockey in the last 20 years (hell, the last 10 really) has changed completely. beuk was tough as nails and great in his own end, everyone who watched him knew that. leetch provided all the offense from the blue line, and beuk hung back and did what was asked of him.

district9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2012, 11:42 AM
  #63
KreiMeARiver*
Have Confidence
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UES
Posts: 6,621
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by petejudge View Post
this thread and the people trash talking beuk are unbelievable. asking who in the top 4 would sit for beuk is totally irrelevant because hockey in the last 20 years (hell, the last 10 really) has changed completely. beuk was tough as nails and great in his own end, everyone who watched him knew that. leetch provided all the offense from the blue line, and beuk hung back and did what was asked of him.
People trash-talking Beukeboom probably weren't even alive when he played.

KreiMeARiver* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2012, 12:40 PM
  #64
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,710
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hightide85 View Post
People trash-talking Beukeboom probably weren't even alive when he played.
I saw a lot of seasons before, since I am the person in question. He was a tough but otherwise ordinary dman.

Those insinuating that he greatly benefitted Leetch are the ones out of touch in my opinion.

Beuk wasn't a great positional dman and had zero offensive skills. He was tough in the crease.

I have not trash talked him at all. I just object to how he has been elevated past reality in this thread.

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2012, 12:54 PM
  #65
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,111
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Over the course of his career, I assume? He was a +67 over three seasons with the Rangers, but certainly didn't pass the eye-test. He happened to be on the ice for a ton of Jagr's goals and played a very soft game. Rangers fans loathe big guys that don't use their bodies.

That being said, he was overly abused by the fans.
The reason Beukeboom passed the eye-test with fans in NY is because, in order, he played primarily with one of the greatest defensemen of all-time, and he was tough as nails.

This stuff about him being "great in his own end" is pure hyperbole and revisionist history. He was adequate most of the time, and scary at other times when he had the puck.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2012, 01:21 PM
  #66
Thordic
StraightOuttaConklin
 
Thordic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Kearny, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
This stuff about him being "great in his own end" is pure hyperbole and revisionist history. He was adequate most of the time, and scary at other times when he had the puck.
QFT. I love Beuke, but history has been very kind to his defensive abilities.

Thordic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2012, 11:34 PM
  #67
Mr Atoz*
I hid the Atavachron
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 2,915
vCash: 500
Beukeboom instilled fear in those crossing the blue line and that has been missing from the Rangers since he left. And those that don't understand that don't understand hockey.

Mr Atoz* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 07:20 AM
  #68
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,710
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
Beukeboom instilled fear in those crossing the blue line and that has been missing from the Rangers since he left. And those that don't understand that don't understand hockey.
Fear of what? He could only hit you if you were not moving.

Although, I must thank you for teaching me hockey.

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 01:32 PM
  #69
Edge
Registered User
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sin City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,196
vCash: 500
Why does every debate about a player have to break into two camps - the ones that overrate and the ones that underrated.

Beukeboom was a slightly above average defenseman who clicked very well with Brian Leetch.

While there is no doubt that Beukeboom greatly benefited from playing with Leetch, it's also no coincidence that Leetch played some of his best hockey with Beukeboom.

Beukeboom was an intimidating precense who didn't have the best hockey sense, but he was certainly more than capable of hitting a moving target.

That's a pretty straight forward look at the situation, minus excessive drama.

Edge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 03:13 PM
  #70
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,710
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Why does every debate about a player have to break into two camps - the ones that overrate and the ones that underrated.

Beukeboom was a slightly above average defenseman who clicked very well with Brian Leetch.

While there is no doubt that Beukeboom greatly benefited from playing with Leetch, it's also no coincidence that Leetch played some of his best hockey with Beukeboom.

Beukeboom was an intimidating precense who didn't have the best hockey sense, but he was certainly more than capable of hitting a moving target.

That's a pretty straight forward look at the situation, minus excessive drama.
Your assumption is that you have found truth in the middle, but it is just your opinion. I have my opinion. Some here disagree.

The middle is not always by definition accurate. These are all just opinions.

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 03:40 PM
  #71
Miamipuck
Al Swearengen
 
Miamipuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Take a Wild Guess
Posts: 1,283
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Why does every debate about a player have to break into two camps - the ones that overrate and the ones that underrated.

Beukeboom was a slightly above average defenseman who clicked very well with Brian Leetch.

While there is no doubt that Beukeboom greatly benefited from playing with Leetch, it's also no coincidence that Leetch played some of his best hockey with Beukeboom.

Beukeboom was an intimidating precense who didn't have the best hockey sense, but he was certainly more than capable of hitting a moving target.

That's a pretty straight forward look at the situation, minus excessive drama.
Your opinion is a helluva a lot closer to being 100% correct than a ridiculous assertion, "omg he couldn't hit anything that wasn't standing still".

Yes, Beukeboom had his faults but why is it, he is a player that every team would die for?


Last edited by Miamipuck: 07-10-2012 at 03:51 PM.
Miamipuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 03:41 PM
  #72
McRanger
Registered User
 
McRanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,792
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Your assumption is that you have found truth in the middle, but it is just your opinion. I have my opinion. Some here disagree.

The middle is not always by definition accurate. These are all just opinions.
With the extreme nature of this board, splitting the difference is usually as close to reality as you are going to find.

In this case I would probably agree with you. Fans loved Beuk more for his sandpaper style than for how useful he was. He never struck me as more than an average D man in terms of everything but "toughness". When Leetch's defensive game trailed off after Mess left that D pair became an absolute disaster.

McRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 03:43 PM
  #73
Kershaw
 
Kershaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country:
Posts: 25,519
vCash: 500
Should we trade for Brock Beukeboom now. lol

Kershaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 03:53 PM
  #74
Edge
Registered User
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sin City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,196
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Your assumption is that you have found truth in the middle, but it is just your opinion. I have my opinion. Some here disagree.

The middle is not always by definition accurate. These are all just opinions.
True, and not all opinions are of equal value. Especially when exaggerated in an effort to increase dramatic emphasis.

The middle by nature does not always equate with absolute truth. However, it does tend to have the highest odds of producing the truth.

Edge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2012, 05:21 PM
  #75
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,710
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
True, and not all opinions are of equal value. Especially when exaggerated in an effort to increase dramatic emphasis.

The middle by nature does not always equate with absolute truth. However, it does tend to have the highest odds of producing the truth.
I disagree, especially with your last stated opinion. Very often, opinions considered as at an extreme, are quite accurate, whether the topic is sports, politics, or on any topic.

Especially in science.

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:29 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.