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Jets - Free Agents, Trades, Rumors, Speculation - Off Season 2012-13 (Part IX)

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07-07-2012, 06:54 PM
  #276
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If Zajac would consider coming here, I would hope that we would give him a very competitive offer.

He is a perfect #2C. Very similar offensively to Little, but with more size. In 2013 we would still have Jokinen for another season so you could go Jokinen - Zajac - Scheifele - Slater, and have little and Burmistrov on the Wings.
He would be my #1 target for next year!

If we can't get Toby signed trade him for a lower priced defenseman and a pick....take the saved money and the Antro money and give it to TZ!!!!!

We would go from sucking down the middle last year to being pretty good and bigger down the middle two seasons later without giving up a bunch

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07-08-2012, 02:11 AM
  #277
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I was doing some research on Peter Mueller and it turns out he and Blake Wheeler are pretty good friends. Not only are they both from Minnesota but they went to the same high school and there's speculation the Coyotes drafted Mueller on Wheeler's recommendation (it would be ironic if it were true, considering Wheeler never ended up playing for the Coyotes).

He wouldn't be a bad reclamation project, especially if we miss out on the likes of Semin/Doan/Wellwood.

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07-08-2012, 07:46 AM
  #278
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Which gas station is this??
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Across the street from the River City Sports.

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07-08-2012, 08:43 AM
  #279
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I only want to trade Toby if we can't get a deal done with him.

I just think its important to keep our D solid this year. Last year we lost 80 man games to injury from our top 4 defenseman and depth is something you can't take for granted. I would really like to get one more top 6 forward asset but I wouldn't want to do it at the expense of Enstrom and our Defence. If we can't get a deal done with Toby then yes we need to maximize asset value but I would prefer a young (sure fire top 4) defensive asset come back our way. Now if that asset was still a prospect that is ok as long as he is NHL ready now even if it was in a sheltered roll initially. I would like a plus on this trade as well depending on the pedigree of the prospect.

I don't like the idea of having a top 4 defensive core with two UFA's and a rover. IMHO It is now our #1 short term area of concern as far as trades coming back for Toby (if he doesn't want to commit).

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07-08-2012, 08:56 AM
  #280
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I have to say that the idea of going into next season with a 3rd line that might be Ponikarovsky Burmi and Antropov is pretty exciting. That line could put up 120 points (40 points each) and take a tonne of pressure off our top 2 lines. This line could have a real identity and be absolute beasts on the cycle. mostly I think it could be a spot that Burmi could really thrive and develop in.

I really think our #1 issue last year was not having a functional 3rd line.

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07-08-2012, 09:16 AM
  #281
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
(...)

I really think our #1 issue last year was not having a functional 3rd line.
Agree - the 3rd line should take some scoring pressure off the 1st and 2nd lines, and checking and shutdown pressure off the 4th line. It did neither last year - basically, it was completely MIA for almost the whole season, other than a brief period when Mittens found his hands again, and Machacek provided some offsense. That forced our 4th line into situations it wasn't equipped to handle, and made life fairly easy in terms of line matching for the opposition against our 1st and 2nd lines.

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07-08-2012, 09:25 AM
  #282
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I only want to trade Toby if we can't get a deal done with him.

I just think its important to keep our D solid this year. Last year we lost 80 man games to injury from our top 4 defenseman and depth is something you can't take for granted. I would really like to get one more top 6 forward asset but I wouldn't want to do it at the expense of Enstrom and our Defence. If we can't get a deal done with Toby then yes we need to maximize asset value but I would prefer a young (sure fire top 4) defensive asset come back our way. Now if that asset was still a prospect that is ok as long as he is NHL ready now even if it was in a sheltered roll initially. I would like a plus on this trade as well depending on the pedigree of the prospect.

I don't like the idea of having a top 4 defensive core with two UFA's and a rover. IMHO It is now our #1 short term area of concern as far as trades coming back for Toby (if he doesn't want to commit).
I think something will happen this summer with Enstrom. Option # 1 is a cap friendly long term deal. But why does Toby do this when he sees the $ being thrown at lesser players. Option # 2 overpay to keep Toby long term. Chevy only does this if they believe he is a vital part for future success. Can't see this happening for budget reasons. Option # 3 trade him for a young player or prospects that you believe will fit with the core and develop into a vital piece or 2. IMO the most likely scenario at this time. Option # 4, go into next season hoping for the best with the intention of dealing him by the deadline if you can't sign him. This has a lot of risks, what if Toby gets injured and you can't move him or Jets are on the bubble and Chevy needs to hold on to him. Under no circumstances can the Jets let option # 5 happen. Toby walks away for nothing at the end of a career year and signs with someone else for big money. That is not the message TN wants to send to guys like Kane and Bogo. It would label the Jets as an also ran for the foreseeable future.

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07-08-2012, 09:33 AM
  #283
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I think something will happen this summer with Enstrom. Option # 1 is a cap friendly long term deal. But why does Toby do this when he sees the $ being thrown at lesser players. Option # 2 overpay to keep Toby long term. Chevy only does this if they believe he is a vital part for future success. Can't see this happening for budget reasons. Option # 3 trade him for a young player or prospects that you believe will fit with the core and develop into a vital piece or 2. IMO the most likely scenario at this time. Option # 4, go into next season hoping for the best with the intention of dealing him by the deadline if you can't sign him. This has a lot of risks, what if Toby gets injured and you can't move him or Jets are on the bubble and Chevy needs to hold on to him. Under no circumstances can the Jets let option # 5 happen. Toby walks away for nothing at the end of a career year and signs with someone else for big money. That is not the message TN wants to send to guys like Kane and Bogo. It would label the Jets as an also ran for the foreseeable future.
yea with number 5 Nashville really took a hit this off season when Suter walked. Not only did they lose a top talent in his prime and get nothing in return, but their market took a short term hit reputation wise (and I love Nashville). We cannot let that happen with Toby.

The one reason I could see Toby motivated to do a deal now (if he wants to stay in Winnipeg) is the uncertainly of what the new CBA will bring. His agent might want to strike now while the iron is hot. Uncertainty is not a great thing.

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07-08-2012, 09:57 AM
  #284
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Know who would slot nicely into that #2 RW opening right now? Alex Burrows, IMO, if he could be acquired in trade and the cost wasn't prohibitive that is. Has played on both the left and right side at various points during his career. I just happen to really like the game he brings as a left handed shooter on the right side. Wouldn't get you a ton of points but does the little things right and as well whatever it takes to aid his line-mates.

The only thing our top 6 is now missing is some jam, that gritty, kinda dirty, utility player that is needed to mix things up and provide a distraction away from the more skilled players on the line. Frankly, I'd rather see a Burrows in that slot than Semin for example. I know Semin is super skilled but you also need some glue in your top lines as well.

Plus, Burrows was discovered by TNSE. I bet they'd love to have him back, too.

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07-08-2012, 10:08 AM
  #285
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yea with number 5 Nashville really took a hit this off season when Suter walked. Not only did they lose a top talent in his prime and get nothing in return, but their market took a short term hit reputation wise (and I love Nashville). We cannot let that happen with Toby.

The one reason I could see Toby motivated to do a deal now (if he wants to stay in Winnipeg) is the uncertainly of what the new CBA will bring. His agent might want to strike now while the iron is hot. Uncertainty is not a great thing.
But what is a fair deal for Toby. If Matt Carle can get 5.5 M per for 6 years, what would Toby want? Those who think he will sign in the 4.5 - 5 M range are dreaming IMO. Conversely a team like Philly might be in the market for a guy with Toby's skills and they have a lot of young players and prospects with tremendous upsides that would fit nicely with our young core.

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07-08-2012, 11:07 AM
  #286
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Know who would slot nicely into that #2 RW opening right now? Alex Burrows, IMO, if he could be acquired in trade and the cost wasn't prohibitive that is. Has played on both the left and right side at various points during his career. I just happen to really like the game he brings as a left handed shooter on the right side. Wouldn't get you a ton of points but does the little things right and as well whatever it takes to aid his line-mates.

The only thing our top 6 is now missing is some jam, that gritty, kinda dirty, utility player that is needed to mix things up and provide a distraction away from the more skilled players on the line. Frankly, I'd rather see a Burrows in that slot than Semin for example. I know Semin is super skilled but you also need some glue in your top lines as well.

Plus, Burrows was discovered by TNSE. I bet they'd love to have him back, too.
Pipe dream.

Barring a major falling out with management I cannot imagine him being available until the Sedins retire and the Canucks decide they have to rebuild.

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07-08-2012, 11:16 AM
  #287
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Pipe dream.

Barring a major falling out with management I cannot imagine him being available until the Sedins retire and the Canucks decide they have to rebuild.
I'm aware of that; was just trying to point out in a round about manner that it is just as likely that TNSE will drop grit and glue into the open RW spot versus a guy like Semin. You can't just roll pure skill alone on your top lines. For every Crosby in the mix there is also a Cooke, for every Claude Giroux there is a Scotty Hartnell, etc.

I'd take a Hartnell/Ott/Neil/Simmonds type in that spot versus a Semin.

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07-08-2012, 11:31 AM
  #288
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But what is a fair deal for Toby. If Matt Carle can get 5.5 M per for 6 years, what would Toby want? Those who think he will sign in the 4.5 - 5 M range are dreaming IMO. Conversely a team like Philly might be in the market for a guy with Toby's skills and they have a lot of young players and prospects with tremendous upsides that would fit nicely with our young core.
Yea KingBogo to be a fly on the wall in Chevy's office

My guess is they could go market value long term unless no trade no movement was included. I assume that is what Toby would want though and then we start getting into the long term plan of what Chevy has in mind. REALLY hard to say at this point? Chevy did mention in the chamber of commerce lunch that cap managment was the most important job of a NHL GM. He also mentioned he is more of a fan of a spread the wealth model as opposed to a few monster contracts (think Caps last year).

As to the Philly scenario it seems like it would be poor asset management to let Carle walk for nothing in return and then turn around and trade assets to acquire Toby and be forced into a similar contract that Carle fetched no? Who knows though anything is possible and they might be forced into some moves now depending on the health of some of their key D assets.

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07-08-2012, 11:58 AM
  #289
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I have to say that the idea of going into next season with a 3rd line that might be Ponikarovsky Burmi and Antropov is pretty exciting. That line could put up 120 points (40 points each) and take a tonne of pressure off our top 2 lines. This line could have a real identity and be absolute beasts on the cycle. mostly I think it could be a spot that Burmi could really thrive and develop in.

I really think our #1 issue last year was not having a functional 3rd line.
^This and one!!!^
We all are hoping for something along the lines of:
Kane - Jokki - Wheeler
Ladd - Little - UFA
Poni - Burmi - Antro
Mittens/Cormier - Slater - Mach/Thor
Enstrom - Bogo
Hainsey - Buff
Stuart - Clitsome/Postma/Kulda

Even though small additions, that depth is extremely better than last year.
Looking at our last years largest problems:
1) too many penalties (we weren't very good at this, which is compounded by...)
2) improve our PK (it wasn't so hot... which could be cos of the next few points)
3) Weak C depth (our offensive pressure was all on Little and defensive pressure was all on Slater, now we have better options since Little gets placed on 2nd where he is more comfortable and Burmi on third where he is also more comfortable)
4) MIA third line... it was pretty much an AHL line that was absent for 99% of the time (as noted this is needed to take a lot of pressure for our other lines)
5) inconsistent Pavs - 30 games of league avg to superior SV% and 30 games of terrible SV%
6) competent backup to help Pavs (hopefully one of our two new signings can help this out)

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07-08-2012, 12:03 PM
  #290
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Yea KingBogo to be a fly on the wall in Chevy's office

My guess is they could go market value long term unless no trade no movement was included. I assume that is what Toby would want though and then we start getting into the long term plan of what Chevy has in mind. REALLY hard to say at this point? Chevy did mention in the chamber of commerce lunch that cap managment was the most important job of a NHL GM. He also mentioned he is more of a fan of a spread the wealth model as opposed to a few monster contracts (think Caps last year).

As to the Philly scenario it seems like it would be poor asset management to let Carle walk for nothing in return and then turn around and trade assets to acquire Toby and be forced into a similar contract that Carle fetched no? Who knows though anything is possible and they might be forced into some moves now depending on the health of some of their key D assets.
Either way, how Chevy handles Enstrom will be his biggest challenge to date as a GM, and will go a long way it determining the direction the Jets will go in the Future. I mentioned Philly in that Enstrom is a step up from Carle and if they could sign him long term in the same price range it is better use of cap space. Besides few teams have the wealth of young talent they have and might see as expendable for the right player.

NJ and Nashville can defend how they handled their high-end UFA because they both believed they were contenders. No one can make the same argument for the Jets...not yet at least

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07-08-2012, 12:10 PM
  #291
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I'm aware of that; was just trying to point out in a round about manner that it is just as likely that TNSE will drop grit and glue into the open RW spot versus a guy like Semin. You can't just roll pure skill alone on your top lines. For every Crosby in the mix there is also a Cooke, for every Claude Giroux there is a Scotty Hartnell, etc.

I'd take a Hartnell/Ott/Neil/Simmonds type in that spot versus a Semin.
At the risk of getting put on ignore by the entire Jets board I will float an idea that goes along with your grit idea.

David Clarkson took along time to make it to the NHL and took a few years in the NHL to find his roll but he is a key top 6 asset and knows his roll. GRIT, character, support, agitate, toughness, dirty goals.

If we can't get a deal done with a natural top 6 right winger i would like to see Spencer Machacek get a shot to see what he can do..........ok ok I know But before we laugh it off too much let me at least make a case. Spencer has been just under a PPG average in the AHL for the past two seasons so he has played a top 6 roll on his team for the past few years. He has size, is a seasoned professional, plays a pure north south game, and would be a nice complimentary player to elite talent. He could grind on the boards, work the paint, get dirty, and create space. On top of that he knows how to cycle and support very well.

when I look at these lines i think it forms a funcitional top 9:

Kane, Jokinen, Wheeler

Ladd Little Machacek

Poni Burmi Antro


even if we kept Ladd Little Wheeler together I thought Spencer had some chemistry with Kane (in the little they played together). The thing about Spencer is he won't get in the way and if anything he will complement very well. Sometimes that can lead to a better result due to chemistry than bringing in another offence first specialist IMHO. I know the pace he scored at with the Jets last season is not sustainable but I saw a nose of the net and a willingness to pay the price that makes me want to see more. remember Burrows was an un-drafted career AHL player but he is a great complimentary fit highly skilled players

ok now I will duck for cover


Last edited by ps241: 07-08-2012 at 12:22 PM.
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07-08-2012, 12:13 PM
  #292
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Assuming the bottom six are Poni-Burmi-Antro and Cormier/Miettinen-Slater-Thorburn/Machacek, I see the top six set up like this:

1)
Ladd - Little - Wheeler
Kane - Jokinen - UFA (Wellwood?)

2)
Kane - Jokinen - Little/Wheeler
Ladd - UFA (Wellwood?) - Little/Wheeler

3)
Kane - Jokinen - Little/Wheeler
Ladd - Scheifele - Little/Wheeler

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07-08-2012, 12:23 PM
  #293
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At the risk of getting put on ignore by the entire Jets board I will float an idea goes along with your grit idea.

David Clarkson took along time to make it to the NHL and took a few years in the NHL to find his roll but he is a key top 6 asset and knows his roll. GRIT, character, support, agitate, toughness, dirty goals.

If we can't get a deal done with a natural top 6 right winger i would like to see Spencer Machacek get a shot to see what he can do..........ok ok I know :help: But before we laugh it off too much let me at least make a case. Spencer has been just under a PPG average in the AHL for the past two seasons so he has played a top 6 roll on his team for the past few years. He has size, is a seasoned professional, plays a pure north south game, and would be a nice complimentary player to elite talent. He could grind on the boards, work the paint, get dirty, and create space. On top of that he knows how to cycle and support very well.

when I look at these lines i think it forms a funcitional top 9

Kane, Jokinen, Wheeler

Ladd Little Machacek

Poni Burmi Antro


even if we kept Ladd Little Wheeler together I thought Spencer had some chemistry with Kane (in the little they played together). The thing about Spencer is he won't get in the way and if anything he will complement very well. Sometimes that can lead to a better result do to chemistry than bringing in another offence first specialist IMHO. I know the pace he scored at with the Jets last season is not sustainable but I saw a nose of the net and a willingness to pay the price that makes me want to see more.

ok now I will duck for cover :naughty:
I don't disagree with your premise. I was a pretty big NJD before the return of the Jets, and I like how Clarkson plays and agree someone like that would work nicely on our second line. I just don't think Spencer has the ability to fill that role. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't see the skill level required ro warrant the ice time and opportunity. He has a role, and skills but I don't think we get better with him playing 20 minutes. With the Clarkson comparison I see similar aspects and heart, but I think David is just a little better at most aspects of the game.

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07-08-2012, 12:37 PM
  #294
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At the risk of getting put on ignore by the entire Jets board I will float an idea that goes along with your grit idea.

David Clarkson took along time to make it to the NHL and took a few years in the NHL to find his roll but he is a key top 6 asset and knows his roll. GRIT, character, support, agitate, toughness, dirty goals.

If we can't get a deal done with a natural top 6 right winger i would like to see Spencer Machacek get a shot to see what he can do..........ok ok I know But before we laugh it off too much let me at least make a case. Spencer has been just under a PPG average in the AHL for the past two seasons so he has played a top 6 roll on his team for the past few years. He has size, is a seasoned professional, plays a pure north south game, and would be a nice complimentary player to elite talent. He could grind on the boards, work the paint, get dirty, and create space. On top of that he knows how to cycle and support very well.

when I look at these lines i think it forms a funcitional top 9:

Kane, Jokinen, Wheeler

Ladd Little Machacek

Poni Burmi Antro


even if we kept Ladd Little Wheeler together I thought Spencer had some chemistry with Kane (in the little they played together). The thing about Spencer is he won't get in the way and if anything he will complement very well. Sometimes that can lead to a better result due to chemistry than bringing in another offence first specialist IMHO. I know the pace he scored at with the Jets last season is not sustainable but I saw a nose of the net and a willingness to pay the price that makes me want to see more. remember Burrows was an un-drafted career AHL player but he is a great complimentary fit highly skilled players

ok now I will duck for cover
I don't know enough about Clarkson to comment on, but completely agree with you on Machacek. I thought he was the best player down the final 10 game stretch. He deserves to get more ice time to see what he can do.

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07-08-2012, 12:46 PM
  #295
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I don't disagree with your premise. I was a pretty big NJD before the return of the Jets, and I like how Clarkson plays and agree someone like that would work nicely on our second line. I just don't think Spencer has the ability to fill that role. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't see the skill level required ro warrant the ice time and opportunity. He has a role, and skills but I don't think we get better with him playing 20 minutes. With the Clarkson comparison I see similar aspects and heart, but I think David is just a little better at most aspects of the game.
that is my fear wpgsilver however it did take Clarkson forever to get his shot so he must not have been overflowing with natural talent......put it in the extreme long shot category for sure.

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07-08-2012, 12:47 PM
  #296
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At the risk of getting put on ignore by the entire Jets board I will float an idea that goes along with your grit idea.

David Clarkson took along time to make it to the NHL and took a few years in the NHL to find his roll but he is a key top 6 asset and knows his roll. GRIT, character, support, agitate, toughness, dirty goals.

If we can't get a deal done with a natural top 6 right winger i would like to see Spencer Machacek get a shot to see what he can do..........ok ok I know But before we laugh it off too much let me at least make a case. Spencer has been just under a PPG average in the AHL for the past two seasons so he has played a top 6 roll on his team for the past few years. He has size, is a seasoned professional, plays a pure north south game, and would be a nice complimentary player to elite talent. He could grind on the boards, work the paint, get dirty, and create space. On top of that he knows how to cycle and support very well.

when I look at these lines i think it forms a funcitional top 9:

Kane, Jokinen, Wheeler

Ladd Little Machacek

Poni Burmi Antro


even if we kept Ladd Little Wheeler together I thought Spencer had some chemistry with Kane (in the little they played together). The thing about Spencer is he won't get in the way and if anything he will complement very well. Sometimes that can lead to a better result due to chemistry than bringing in another offence first specialist IMHO. I know the pace he scored at with the Jets last season is not sustainable but I saw a nose of the net and a willingness to pay the price that makes me want to see more. remember Burrows was an un-drafted career AHL player but he is a great complimentary fit highly skilled players

ok now I will duck for cover
I do think Machecek will turn out to be a great 3rd/4th liner. But I don't think it is a good idea to place him in the top 6.
To put in perspective:
Machecek's best junior and best AHL points are similar to Thorburn's

Yes, Machacek led the IceCaps in scoring this season and put up 9 points in 13 games with the Jets, but wasn't driving the scoring chances as seen with unspectacular Corsi numbers. Is his scoring rate sustainable? No, of course not. His on-ice shooting percentage was 26.3%, his PDO was 1213 and his 5v5 P/60 was an absurd 5.57. To put that in perspective, Sidney Crosby's on-ice shooting percentage was 15.17% and his 5v5 P/60 was 4.73.

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07-08-2012, 12:54 PM
  #297
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I do think Machecek will turn out to be a great 3rd/4th liner. But I don't think it is a good idea to place him in the top 6.
To put in perspective:
Machecek's best junior and best AHL points are similar to Thorburn's

Yes, Machacek led the IceCaps in scoring this season and put up 9 points in 13 games with the Jets, but wasn't driving the scoring chances as seen with unspectacular Corsi numbers. Is his scoring rate sustainable? No, of course not. His on-ice shooting percentage was 26.3%, his PDO was 1213 and his 5v5 P/60 was an absurd 5.57. To put that in perspective, Sidney Crosby's on-ice shooting percentage was 15.17% and his 5v5 P/60 was 4.73.
yea for sure garret9 i was only using him in reference to a couple of other late bloomers in Clarkson and Burrows who play clearly defined rolls as complimentary top 6 assets.

There is no doubt it has the dumb and dumber type odds

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07-08-2012, 01:01 PM
  #298
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that is my fear wpgsilver however it did take Clarkson forever to get his shot so he must not have been overflowing with natural talent......put it in the extreme long shot category for sure.
Its an intriguing idea though. And let's be honest, with Coach Noel's line shuffling I'm fairly certain we'll see him playing on the second line at some point next season . At that point it's up to him to prove he deserves an extended look.

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07-08-2012, 01:48 PM
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I'm aware of that; was just trying to point out in a round about manner that it is just as likely that TNSE will drop grit and glue into the open RW spot versus a guy like Semin. You can't just roll pure skill alone on your top lines. For every Crosby in the mix there is also a Cooke, for every Claude Giroux there is a Scotty Hartnell, etc.

I'd take a Hartnell/Ott/Neil/Simmonds type in that spot versus a Semin.
I agree with this Gump but IMO an org's mistake is giving up assets in a trade to get an established guy like this. I think every team has these guys in their org, they need to identify them and bring them in. This type of gritty guy with the skill and speed to keep up on the top 2 lines is easier to develop. They just have to accept that that is indeed their role.

For me, I'd rather just give Machacek the opportunity to do it. He seems to have that blueprint in him. If we could coax a little 'rat' out of him I think he fits the mold perfectly.

The only guys I would go out and actually trade for or pay big dollars in a contract for at free agency are important rare pieces (like a big centre in Jokinen, or maybe a rock solid top 4 D)

PS I know you aren't necessarily advocating for a trade to get one of these gritty wingers. I just think we could potentially already have that here.

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07-08-2012, 02:12 PM
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Didn't Mach have some good chemistry when he played with Mittens? I remember them having the best scoring chances in some games even with 4-5 minutes of ice time. Maybe the 4th line will be Slater centering those two guys which would leave Thor as the 13th fwd.

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