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Free Agent Frenzy (Part VIII): Still no decision with Doan

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Old
07-08-2012, 01:14 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
I said I wouldn't include Stepan. I just meant it don't matter what linemates he's playing with (see Cbj) Nash will score 30. Also, how does adding stafford for Dubinsky add depth? I also don't believe stafford would score 30 again. Dubi with 20 goals and everything else he does for the Rangers is far more valuable than stafford would be. Doan is not coming here and if he really was considering it, slats is not giving him 4 let alone 5 years he is seeking and in this market, he will get it. If something like dubi hags a spect and 1st got it done, u have to pull the trigger and do it. This team as of right now will not be a legit cup contender until they can find more scoring
I wouldn't be too sure about that, regarding Doan.

Phoenix has so much uncertainty involving its future as an organization. Will they be as good as they were, they lost their scoring leader, didn't do anything to replace him.

Doan may want to win now.

We will probably find out tomorrow.

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07-08-2012, 01:15 PM
  #27
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Do you want him? My God, yes.
Not at $6M per for 4 years.

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07-08-2012, 01:15 PM
  #28
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Doan is asking crazy money and term... and he'll get it.

The Rangers feel like this team is only getting better. They feel like the window is just beginning to open, not close. They won't make a desperation move this year, be it an expensive over 35 contract or an insane trade demand. They don't feel cornered or pressured to seize go all out yet.

That's the best thing going for management right now, whether or not they are justified in those beliefs. A ton of teams panicked on July 1. The supply of available players barely dropped, but the destinations and cap space are vanishing.

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07-08-2012, 01:16 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
The Rangers will be the leaders in the clubhouse if Doan decides to leave Phoenix. Remember -- he does not want to leave and is giving the perspective ownership every chance to work things out before he leaves. Doan and Sather are close and it's very unlikely he will play for a Coyotes rival. Given the market, it probably won't hurt him to wait another couple of weeks. Right now, he is the market. You add a guy like Doan whenever you can.

Do you want him? My God, yes. His scoring might be down a bit over the last few years but he was never a big scorer. He is a warrior and that part of his game has only gotten better. Remember he has been playing with linemates like Daymond Lankgkow and Lee Stempniak the past few years. His value is going hard into the corners, hitting people hard and at playoff time, he turns it up three notches. He can bomb it from the right point on the power play. And even if his scoring tails off, he will still be a substantial player. He's got a lot of Mark Messier in him, starting with body type.

I don't want to see Shane go to the Rangers because I want the Coyotes to stay here and I want him to finish his career here but if he is available, you have got to sign him.
you can't give a 5 yr 35+ contract out

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07-08-2012, 01:16 PM
  #30
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Doan 2 yrs 10 mil at max with NMC.

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07-08-2012, 01:17 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by sexton11 View Post
Say we sign Doan, we are definatly out on Nash in that case. Then where is he willing to go to? SJ wont give Couture, Philly dropped out, Carolina dropped.. any team that was in wont be offering as much with us out of it.

This has the potential to get really ugly really fast.
More or less.

But there is an outside chance that we could still get Nash(extremely unlikely). Realistically, though, the Rangers would use their trading assets to address their other two needs in order:

1)RHD for the second pairing/ PP triggerman specialist.

2)3rd line center/face off specialist.


Last edited by Blueshirt Believer: 07-08-2012 at 01:29 PM.
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07-08-2012, 01:17 PM
  #32
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Where are people reading these terms regarding Doan?

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07-08-2012, 01:18 PM
  #33
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Dubinsky

Anisimov

The Rangers are giving up 2 players who can play in the middle and on the wing. They lose depth in that area.

Hagelin is the other option but Torts really likes him.

So if you're giving up 2 NHL roster forwards,they can't move Miller in the deal. They can have Thomas if they want another forward prospect.

How much more? Who are the other teams offering? What other teams? SJ is not giving them 2 NHL roster players.

Philly is not moving Schenn or Couturier. Hartnell(NTC) is a group III next summer. Briere has a NMC. Columbus already had Voracek. Simmonds and Read are left.

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07-08-2012, 01:18 PM
  #34
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No to Doan, I think we need to get younger, not older.
Younger? We hardly have any experience at the moment. Feds and Prust have left and we only have Richards, Rupp, Asham, Pyatt and Gaborik with major experience. Having Doan will bring us more in the long run (sounds weird, I know, since he is turning 36).

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07-08-2012, 01:19 PM
  #35
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bobbop, What is the most you would offer Doan if you were Sather? Do you think 3 years 15 million would be too much?

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07-08-2012, 01:26 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Dubinsky

Anisimov

The Rangers are giving up 2 players who can play in the middle and on the wing. They lose depth in that area.

Hagelin is the other option but Torts really likes him.

So if you're giving up 2 NHL roster forwards,they can't move Miller in the deal. They can have Thomas if they want another forward prospect.

How much more? Who are the other teams offering? What other teams? SJ is not giving them 2 NHL roster players.

Philly is not moving Schenn or Couturier. Hartnell(NTC) is a group III next summer. Briere has a NMC. Columbus already had Voracek. Simmonds and Read are left.
This is purely speculation, the deal appears to be dubi + hags +. The negociations is now what the + is. First and ??. If the ?? Is Miller, is it a deal breaker? I say hold the line. Dubi + hags + thomas + first is the max. And Doan is a decoy to drive down the price. Just my opinion

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07-08-2012, 01:26 PM
  #37
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People have to bear in mind as well, that trading Nash could very well turn into a pride situation for CBJ. Craig Patrick is whispering in Howson's ear and that can't be a good thing.

As I said in the previous thread, rational thinking might have already left the building for CBJ's front office. Howson could very well be "digging in" and Nash could be a CBJ come Oct.


Last edited by Blueshirt Believer: 07-08-2012 at 01:33 PM.
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07-08-2012, 01:26 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Where are people reading these terms regarding Doan?
I want to know that too. Who is reporting that Doan wants more than 5 million for 4-5 years?

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07-08-2012, 01:27 PM
  #39
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that 2010 WJC game was just amazing, regardless who you rooted for that was an amazing game.

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07-08-2012, 01:27 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Dubinsky

Anisimov

The Rangers are giving up 2 players who can play in the middle and on the wing. They lose depth in that area.

Hagelin is the other option but Torts really likes him.

So if you're giving up 2 NHL roster forwards,they can't move Miller in the deal. They can have Thomas if they want another forward prospect.

How much more? Who are the other teams offering? What other teams? SJ is not giving them 2 NHL roster players.

Philly is not moving Schenn or Couturier. Hartnell(NTC) is a group III next summer. Briere has a NMC. Columbus already had Voracek. Simmonds and Read are left.
Agree.

Its Dubinsky Anisimov Thomas 1st and maybe Erixon.

If Howson can't see that's a bigger haul than any other "star" player that's been traded in recent years, then he really is a moron.

Miller can't be in the deal because he would be Dubinsky/Anisimov replacement.

Pyatt would have to move up from 4th line to 3rd.

Columbus would have to include a depth forward in the deal.

Derek Dorsett.

Asham/Rupp Boyle Dorsett as the 4th line.

Hagelin Richards Gaborik
Kreider Stepan Nash
Pyatt Miller Callahan
Asham/Rupp Boyle Dorsett

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07-08-2012, 01:28 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
This is purely speculation, the deal appears to be dubi + hags +. The negociations is now what the + is. First and ??. If the ?? Is Miller, is it a deal breaker? I say hold the line. Dubi + hags + thomas + first is the max. And Doan is a decoy to drive down the price. Just my opinion
Putting Hagelin in there is pure speculation. Haven't seen him mentioned aside from on here.

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07-08-2012, 01:31 PM
  #42
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As far as Nash to the Rangers--Howson's painted himself into a corner. Taking anything significantly less than what he's demanded so far would be the equivalent of admitting defeat and would be tantamount to professional suicide. I don't think he's going to budge and pull the trigger on himself. He's been trying to force this deal to us since at least January and he's made 0 progress almost since day 1 and meanwhile Craig Patrick's giving him advice--John Davidson's waiting in the wings. OTOH Patrick seems to have this grudge against the Rangers going back 25 (?)--30(?) years while Slats for his part is just fine watching Howson twist in the wind. You want to win trades?--you don't budge or not very much. Market value is one thing--fair value more often than not is another. Then there are bargains. Usually market value means your paying the most or outbidding everyone else concerned. Those are ones you're more likely to lose. Slats has lost some deals in the past--but his track record of the last few years is real good. I don't see him budging especially if all his competitors are dropping out of the bidding.

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07-08-2012, 01:33 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by nyr5186 View Post
bobbop, What is the most you would offer Doan if you were Sather? Do you think 3 years 15 million would be too much?
That feels about right. It's a fair deal.

And let me add...all of the rumored numbers on here about what he wants are made up numbers by bloggers and posters. Show me an actual link. (You can't because there isn't one) Doan's agent has not said anything other than he want to get things worked out in Phoenix. I don't even think he's thought about what kind of money he could get elsewhere. This ain't about money. It's about a guy, his family and his life.

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07-08-2012, 01:36 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
If (hypothetically) Stepan were to be included, who is Nash playing with? Anisimov? Boyle?

If he scores more than 30 it'll be a miracle playing with those two.

Or...

Stafford and 25-30 goals playing with Stepan.

Its a lot more complex than he's better or whose better.

Stafford + Stepan potentially = 50 goals, 100+ points. Plus Kreider at around 20-25 goals, 40-45 points.

Or... Nash at 30 goals and 60 points for more than Stafford and Stepan cap hit combined.

This isn't basketball, it isn't a video game with no line changes...

Depth.

Rangers are (thankfully) not cleaning house for Nash.

Upgrades, even slight, here and there, improves the team.

Hagelin Richards Gaborik
Kreider Stepan Stafford
Miller Anisimov Callahan
Asham/Rupp Boyle Pyatt

Is deeper than anything realistic including Nash. Trade for Nash and players would move up the depth chart, not down. That's not what this organization wanted. Not what Tortorella talked about.

Or if they land Doan.

Hagelin Richards Gaborik
Kreider Stepan Doan
Dubinsky Anisimov Callahan
Asham/Rupp Boyle Pyatt

Adding depth is what Tortorella talked about. Not subtracting from it. Trading for Nash will subtract depth.

Howson isn't accepting less than McDonagh, Stepan, Kreider. Rangers aren't including them.

So while Nash may score more than those other guys. There would be considerably less scoring DEPTH with him.

However...if Howson comes to his senses and takes Dubinsky, Thomas, Erixon, 1st Something like that...than the depth won't be an issue.
Nash and Stafford aren't even comparable. Nash gives you two #1 lines. Stafford is a solid hockey player, but coming back with him as your offensive prize will just see this team in the same position it was in last year.

You also keep forgetting that I am saying IF the deal can be done without Stepan and you keep going back to the assumption that he must be included - we don't know this.

Tortorella said we need more depth? He also said we need more offense.

Depth? How about SCORING depth? That's what this team lacks. Retooling with Pyatt and Stafford doesn't improve the scoring depth much - if at all - from last years playoffs.

You are talking about 2 roster players - not gutting the entire on ice product. You make it sound like 6 roster guys are leaving.

You can play with numbers all you want, but this team needs to score IN THE PLAYOFFS.

Just to reiterate - Im not advocating getting Nash at any/all costs, but I firmly believe there is a deal to be made here. If not you move on to asking about Ryan.

One last point: 7.8 million is high, but you'd rather sign Doan whose going to be on a 35+ contract for 3-5 years (prob 4) at 5 million to be a FAR inferior player?

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07-08-2012, 01:36 PM
  #45
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As far as Nash to the Rangers--Howson's painted himself into a corner. Taking anything significantly less than what he's demanded so far would be the equivalent of admitting defeat and would be tantamount to professional suicide. I don't think he's going to budge and pull the trigger on himself. He's been trying to force this deal to us since at least January and he's made 0 progress almost since day 1 and meanwhile Craig Patrick's giving him advice--John Davidson's waiting in the wings. OTOH Patrick seems to have this grudge against the Rangers going back 25 (?)--30(?) years while Slats for his part is just fine watching Howson twist in the wind. You want to win trades?--you don't budge or not very much. Market value is one thing--fair value more often than not is another. Then there are bargains. Usually market value means your paying the most or outbidding everyone else concerned. Those are ones you're more likely to lose. Slats has lost some deals in the past--but his track record of the last few years is real good. I don't see him budging especially if all his competitors are dropping out of the bidding.
Another thing to bear in mind, Maybe Nash doesn't even want to leave Columbus. That he has essentially made a un winnable situation for Howson that it forces ownership to fire him.

I would assume that if Nash is not traded and Howson is let go in the process, the GM replacing him will be given the task to try to keep Nash around.

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07-08-2012, 01:37 PM
  #46
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Putting Hagelin in there is pure speculation. Haven't seen him mentioned aside from on here.
Coach Pat Leonard:
Quote:
Of the remaining Ranger forwards, that would seem to point to speedy 23-year-old winger Carl Hagelin — who had 38 points in 64 games in his rookie season playing frequently on the Blueshirts’ top line — and possibly 19-year-old prospect J.T. Miller, the Blueshirts’ 2011 first-round pick who had 62 points (25 goals) in 61 games with the OHL’s Plymouth Whalers.
Of course he is speculating too, but it's still a place outside of here.

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07-08-2012, 01:37 PM
  #47
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This is purely speculation, the deal appears to be dubi + hags +. The negociations is now what the + is. First and ??. If the ?? Is Miller, is it a deal breaker? I say hold the line. Dubi + hags + thomas + first is the max. And Doan is a decoy to drive down the price. Just my opinion
Haven't read anywhere its starting with dubi + hags. If so, than that is a good starting point that should be able to get sonething done

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07-08-2012, 01:39 PM
  #48
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One reason for Semin's availability is that the teams who, theoretically, should make a run at him are at least tangentially in on Nash and Ryan.

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07-08-2012, 01:40 PM
  #49
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The Rangers will be the leaders in the clubhouse if Doan decides to leave Phoenix. Remember -- he does not want to leave and is giving the perspective ownership every chance to work things out before he leaves. Doan and Sather are close and it's very unlikely he will play for a Coyotes rival. Given the market, it probably won't hurt him to wait another couple of weeks. Right now, he is the market. You add a guy like Doan whenever you can.

Do you want him? My God, yes. His scoring might be down a bit over the last few years but he was never a big scorer. He is a warrior and that part of his game has only gotten better. Remember he has been playing with linemates like Daymond Lankgkow and Lee Stempniak the past few years. His value is going hard into the corners, hitting people hard and at playoff time, he turns it up three notches. He can bomb it from the right point on the power play. And even if his scoring tails off, he will still be a substantial player. He's got a lot of Mark Messier in him, starting with body type.

I don't want to see Shane go to the Rangers because I want the Coyotes to stay here and I want him to finish his career here but if he is available, you have got to sign him.
Wise words

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07-08-2012, 01:41 PM
  #50
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Nash and Stafford aren't even comparable. Nash gives you two #1 lines. Stafford is a solid hockey player, but coming back with him as your offensive prize will just see this team in the same position it was in last year.

You also keep forgetting that I am saying IF the deal can be done without Stepan and you keep going back to the assumption that he must be included - we don't know this.

Tortorella said we need more depth? He also said we need more offense.

Depth? How about SCORING depth? That's what this team lacks. Retooling with Pyatt and Stafford doesn't improve the scoring depth much - if at all - from last years playoffs.

You are talking about 2 roster players - not gutting the entire on ice product. You make it sound like 6 roster guys are leaving.

You can play with numbers all you want, but this team needs to score IN THE PLAYOFFS.

Just to reiterate - Im not advocating getting Nash at any/all costs, but I firmly believe there is a deal to be made here. If not you move on to asking about Ryan.

One last point: 7.8 million is high, but you'd rather sign Doan whose going to be on a 35+ contract for 3-5 years (prob 4) at 5 million to be a FAR inferior player?
all things being equal stafford doesnt compare to nash and neither do doan or semin. but when you are talking about stafford for dubinsky (1 for 1) or just cash for doan or semin vs giving up 4 assets for nash then all things aren't equal

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