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Free Agent Frenzy (Part VIII): Still no decision with Doan

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Old
07-08-2012, 03:30 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by FutureGM97 View Post
If anyone doesn't want to go after Shane Doan I would love to hear why. Yes his age is high but this guy is an absolute animal. He has been relied on as one of the top players for PHX for his career and has put up decent point totals. If he is on a team where he isn't the main focal point his type of play would be very valuable. Doan fits the style of hardworking to a T and adds a lot of depth and can play both PK and PP. I really don't see what reasons you can come up with not to go after him especially considering the mantra of this team.
Well, hes declining, for one. Not sure how anyone can expect anything more than 55 points from him from here on out.

The other issue is a +35 contract. If he'll take 2 years, I'd be fine. 3? Not so much. 4? No chance in hell.

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07-08-2012, 03:32 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I agree with everything you just said, but what about the next step? Handing Weber a longterm deal of 12-14 years/$100M - 120M??? I just cant get on board with that.
Personally, I don't have a problem with that. To me that price is worth the better odds of winning a couple of championships. Especially when we are talking about a guy who is only 27. We get a lot of prime years out of the deal and get a guy who comes in at a higher level for his respective position than either Nash, Parise, Suter, Jordan Staal or even Gaborik/Richards.

Plus,when looking at salary concerns, we have to factor in that Gaborik comes off the book in a few years and we have to consider Marc Staal. If he resigns, he is going to cost a primo contract, or he is going elsewhere and we get nothing, or at least someone far inferior to Weber.

So in the end, salary doesn't keep me up nights.

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07-08-2012, 03:33 PM
  #78
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hagelin was on pace for 48 points as a rookie. stepan scored 45 as a rookie... just sayin'

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Old
07-08-2012, 03:33 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
On the defensive side of the puck, the impact he would have over Staal (who most are trading for Weber) would be minimal, in my opinion. A healthy Staal is one of the top shutdown guys in the league as it stands. Im not underselling Weber's defensive prowess, or his prowess as a player in general, but the powerplay is where he would make a larger mark.

That said, his impending contract, which will likely be 12+ years with a cap hit of $8-8.5M per year is the dealbreaker for me. I dont think Im undervaluing Weber at all when he'll come with that wild cost.
What your saying is a fine counter point and has to be taken into consideration. But keep this in mind:

The thing about Staal is that he is going to command at least 6+ when he comes back to the signing table. Weber will be locked up for the long term(probably a career spanning contract).

Is 6.5-7 million for Staal(and he WILL get that on the open market, make no mistake)as a deal as Weber for 8-8.5(considering the offensive punch he provides)?

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07-08-2012, 03:34 PM
  #80
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Just a reminder NYR lost out in the CF mainly because of Carter , Bernier , Gionta . Our bottom six could not contain them and or outscore them .
Besides the top 6 having question marks and holes , the bottom six as of now is 2 4 th lines and gruesome .
Rangers need at least 2 wings to put up some numbers and bump down the scoring to the lower lines depth .
The defense and Henke should win NYR their share once again but expecting to stay as healthy and play as many games as tight as they did last year and come out on top would be miraculous .

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07-08-2012, 03:35 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
Agreed, 110%. One of the best games of hockey I've EVER had the priveledge of watching.



While I agree with you in your evaluation of Weber himself, I think many Ranger fans, myself included, are gunshy about puliing a deal like this that can gut the core of a team, after seeing it done to keep that 1994 magic alive all those years ago and seeing how that worked out for the Rangers.

It's a franchise altering move, there's a lot to think about there. Lot of potential ramifications, both good and bad.
I think there is a difference between trading for a 27 year old in the prime of his career, and regarded as one of best players in his position, and trading for a 30 something year old who is either a rental, on the downside of his career or otherwise an "experience" move.

To me it's apples and oranges.

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07-08-2012, 03:35 PM
  #82
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We lost because Gaborik and Stepan (and Prust, for that matter) weren't nearly 100%.

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07-08-2012, 03:36 PM
  #83
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I really don't understand how some people want Nash on the Rangers. We are lacking depth already in our forward-department, and getting Nash will cost us several forwards (AA, Dubi, Hags). We need depth. We have defense, we have a great goalie, we have a good 1st line and we need depth.

Getting Pyatt was a good move. We lost Fedotenko and Prust. The other addition was Asham. That still gives you the same lack of depth as last season. Signing a free agent just makes more sense!

Semin is a player who most fans don't want on the Rangers due to his personality, but the guy can play. Getting Doan and Semin through free agency adds to our depth in both scoring and experience. Both players have recent play-off experience, know what it's like to win (also important) and bring more than Nash and his Crosby-salary. Apart form losing roster players, the salary of Nash doesn't compare to his skills. He might be a top RW, but he lacks serious experience in the area where we need it. We need players with play-off experience. Both Semin and Doan have played in the play-offs several seasons, even consecutive seasons. All Nash has done in the play-offs with Columbus was a clean sweep. Only 4 play-off games in 12 friggin' years.

People should stop being so caught up in the whole Nash-saga. Nash is not going to bring us closer to glory. We need experience and we need it now. We don't need Nash with his 7 million a year contract.

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07-08-2012, 03:37 PM
  #84
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Jim Cerny's chats are informative. He indicated a few days ago the Rangers are looking at Hagelin to the fill the void on the PK this coming season whenever it starts. Dubinsky and AA are the two players he mentions when trade questions come up.
If all we are willing to give up are dubi and AA, just keep what we have. They are better than anything we could realistically get for either or let alone both

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07-08-2012, 03:39 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
On the defensive side of the puck, the impact he would have over Staal (who most are trading for Weber) would be minimal, in my opinion. A healthy Staal is one of the top shutdown guys in the league as it stands. Im not underselling Weber's defensive prowess, or his prowess as a player in general, but the powerplay is where he would make a larger mark.

That said, his impending contract, which will likely be 12+ years with a cap hit of $8-8.5M per year is the dealbreaker for me. I dont think Im undervaluing Weber at all when he'll come with that wild cost.
So even if we say Staal for Weber is a defensive wash, the other areas stack heavily in Weber's favor.

Plus we have to consider that McD is essentially Staal with more offense, so we now have that added flexibility to make a move.

Plus we have to consider that in two years Staal is getting a new contract. It will either be us, or it will be someone else. But either way, it will be about $6 million. Frankly, we're not getting anything special with the savings we'd have with a Staal contract versus a Weber contract.

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07-08-2012, 03:40 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
hagelin was on pace for 48 points as a rookie. stepan scored 45 as a rookie... just sayin'
Petr and Mike York also scored more goals than either as rookies. Gotta be careful going with that approach.

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07-08-2012, 03:40 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Personally, I don't have a problem with that. To me that price is worth the better odds of winning a couple of championships. Especially when we are talking about a guy who is only 27. We get a lot of prime years out of the deal and get a guy who comes in at a higher level for his respective position than either Nash, Parise, Suter, Jordan Staal or even Gaborik/Richards.

Plus,when looking at salary concerns, we have to factor in that Gaborik comes off the book in a few years and we have to consider Marc Staal. If he resigns, he is going to cost a primo contract, or he is going elsewhere and we get nothing, or at least someone far inferior to Weber.

So in the end, salary doesn't keep me up nights.
Fine points.

I just think it severely limits the team's ability to upgrade their top 6 forward depth in the next 2 years. And, when I watch this team, thats where I think the most serious and pressing issues are. I dont disagree that Weber can come in and transform the defense - but I feel the defense is strong as it is, and that forward depth was and still is a major problem.

What would be your suggestions for upgrading the offense if youre adding Weber at such a hefty price?

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07-08-2012, 03:41 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
hagelin was on pace for 48 points as a rookie. stepan scored 45 as a rookie... just sayin'
Hagelin was almost 3 years older than Stepan was in their rookie years

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07-08-2012, 03:43 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
hagelin was on pace for 48 points as a rookie. stepan scored 45 as a rookie... just sayin'
Just my personal opinion, but I think you're going to be awfully disappointed if you expect Hagelin's offensive game to take off.

I dont get that impression with Stepan, who I believe has just scratched the surface of his ability.

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07-08-2012, 03:43 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
Just a reminder NYR lost out in the CF mainly because of Carter , Bernier , Gionta . Our bottom six could not contain them and or outscore them .
Besides the top 6 having question marks and holes , the bottom six as of now is 2 4 th lines and gruesome .
Rangers need at least 2 wings to put up some numbers and bump down the scoring to the lower lines depth .
The defense and Henke should win NYR their share once again but expecting to stay as healthy and play as many games as tight as they did last year and come out on top would be miraculous .
if we gain a ufa our top 9 becomes extremely respectable. we gave up some defense in the bottom 6 as it currently stands to add some scoring down there. sather caught on pretty quick by nj's bottom 6.

if we gain any FA:
hagelin/richards/gaborik
kreider/stepan/FA
anisimov/dubinsky/callahan
rupp/boyle/pyatt|asham

def did not get worse offensively in the bottom 6... and if we add a top 6 UFA we reunite the Dubi/Art/Cally line to take over. they scored 65 goals last year. our #1 line last year would be our #3 next year. That's a pretty freaking huge improvement.

albeit that is assuming we get a UFA and don't have to trade which is extremely doubtful, but either way moving 1 roster player it still looks good going forward.

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07-08-2012, 03:45 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
What your saying is a fine counter point and has to be taken into consideration. But keep this in mind:

The thing about Staal is that he is going to command at least 6+ when he comes back to the signing table. Weber will be locked up for the long term(probably a career spanning contract).

Is 6.5-7 million for Staal(and he WILL get that on the open market, make no mistake)as a deal as Weber for 8-8.5(considering the offensive punch he provides)?
I think that's an awesome point and one that we really have to give some thought to.

Staal is getting his payday in 24 months, somewhere.

I also get a kick out of the fact that for years all anyone can talk about around here is how they don't believe Staal is a true number o e defenseman. He goes out with a concussion and we just add fuel to the fire. So now we throw out the idea of moving him for one of thebest defenseman in the league, and we are tripping over ourselves to find reasons not to do it.

I love this team, but let's not fall in love with the dynasty in our imagination at the cost of the realities of the real world team.

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07-08-2012, 03:45 PM
  #92
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Weber to NY?

My opinion Ana asking price

Staal
Erixson
Stepan
1st.

Do you want him?

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07-08-2012, 03:47 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
Agreed, 110%. One of the best games of hockey I've EVER had the priveledge of watching.
Wonder what our northern neighbors think of that game, even though the outcome wasn't in their favor.

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07-08-2012, 03:47 PM
  #94
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Yes to Weber if we can get him signed immediately long term.

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07-08-2012, 03:47 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Staal is getting his payday in 24 months, somewhere.
36 months

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07-08-2012, 03:48 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
hagelin was on pace for 48 points as a rookie. stepan scored 45 as a rookie... just sayin'
Just sayin' what? What's the argument?

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07-08-2012, 03:48 PM
  #97
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My latest thoughts, updating no Schultz, etc.
Do not want Hagelin + Miller + etc moved, weakens depth.

Can live without Stepan, who, be honest, bailed on us most of the year... as long as we get value and are not giving him away.

1 Boyle, Rupp, Stacjer, Mike Vernace, Pashnin + Rangers 2nd 2013
for Gernat, Marancin, Pitlick + Edmonton 1st 2013.

2. Dubinsky + Biron + St. Croix +RW Shane McColgan + LW Jason Wilson + NYR 4th 2013
to Hawks for Olsen + McNeil + Stralberg

3. Stepan + rights to JAM + Rangers 2013 1st + Edmonton 2013 1st
Nash + CBJ 2014 1st (agree to 2014 instead of next year in lieu of other assets NY gives up)

4. C.Thomas + Danny Hobbs + RW Tommy Grant + D Blake Parlett
Gardiner + pick

optional #5
MDZ, +++ for Hedman

sign Semin; 1st line until Gaborik returns; then either 2nd RW (Callahan down 1) or 3rd RW bumping Stralberg

Nash Richards Semin/Gaborik
Kreider Anisimov Callahan
Hagelin JT. Miller Semin/Stralberg
Pyatt Haley Asham

Staal Girardi
McDonagh MDZ Stalman
Erixon McIlrath
Gardiner

Lundqvist
Talbot

Bickel = reserve tough forward
Olsen = can prob = 3rd pair now, gets here if upgrade (Hedman?) for Girardi/MDZ +
McNeil + here soon
Yogan = scoring C soon knocking at the door/let him show what he can do, then keep/trade whichever is more advantageous

Gernat, Marancin = ideal lefty bookends for righty prospects Noreau, Ceresniak
Pitlick = speedy F should be developing at AHL
Stralberg = speedy RW complement to Hagelin, until Fast gets here.

That's how I think we solve the Nash issue: swap players; add enough top end value which Columbus gets 'now', wait a year, they have to add a high pick in 2014.

Flame on!

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07-08-2012, 03:50 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by ltrangerfan View Post
Weber to NY?

My opinion Ana asking price

Staal
Erixson
Stepan
1st.

Do you want him?
Nashville would have to throw in a depth center for that to work. But yeah, I would do it. But I don't think Stepan will be on the table.

The real question is and Nashville will ask:

McD/1st for Weber.

Nashville is going to ask, I guarantee that Sather won't budge on that though.

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07-08-2012, 03:51 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Fine points.

I just think it severely limits the team's ability to upgrade their top 6 forward depth in the next 2 years. And, when I watch this team, thats where I think the most serious and pressing issues are. I dont disagree that Weber can come in and transform the defense - but I feel the defense is strong as it is, and that forward depth was and still is a major problem.

What would be your suggestions for upgrading the offense if youre adding Weber at such a hefty price?
Looking to see who is available as the season progresses. Offense is a need, but I am more confident in our ability to get a 25 goal guy, even as a rental, than I am in our ability to get a guy who is one of the top defenseman in the game.

For all the talk about getting offense, there are only two big names tobe had at the moment. Semin, who I am not crazy about and who is looking for a big contract himself. And Nash, who is very good, but who has the same cost as Weber, the same salary range, but isn't nearly as high in the food chain for his respective position.

I want offense, but I also think that we haven bigger window to address it. On the other hand, guys like Weber just don't come around often.

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07-08-2012, 03:51 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
My latest thoughts, updating no Schultz, etc.
Do not want Hagelin + Miller + etc moved, weakens depth.

Can live without Stepan, who, be honest, bailed on us most of the year... as long as we get value and are not giving him away.

1 Boyle, Rupp, Stacjer, Mike Vernace, Pashnin + Rangers 2nd 2013
for Gernat, Marancin, Pitlick + Edmonton 1st 2013.

2. Dubinsky + Biron + St. Croix +RW Shane McColgan + LW Jason Wilson + NYR 4th 2013
to Hawks for Olsen + McNeil + Stralberg

3. Stepan + rights to JAM + Rangers 2013 1st + Edmonton 2013 1st
Nash + CBJ 2014 1st (agree to 2014 instead of next year in lieu of other assets NY gives up)

4. C.Thomas + Danny Hobbs + RW Tommy Grant + D Blake Parlett
Gardiner + pick

optional #5
MDZ, +++ for Hedman

sign Semin; 1st line until Gaborik returns; then either 2nd RW (Callahan down 1) or 3rd RW bumping Stralberg

Nash Richards Semin/Gaborik
Kreider Anisimov Callahan
Hagelin JT. Miller Semin/Stralberg
Pyatt Haley Asham

Staal Girardi
McDonagh MDZ Stalman
Erixon McIlrath
Gardiner

Lundqvist
Talbot

Bickel = reserve tough forward
Olsen = can prob = 3rd pair now, gets here if upgrade (Hedman?) for Girardi/MDZ +
McNeil + here soon
Yogan = scoring C soon knocking at the door/let him show what he can do, then keep/trade whichever is more advantageous

Gernat, Marancin = ideal lefty bookends for righty prospects Noreau, Ceresniak
Pitlick = speedy F should be developing at AHL
Stralberg = speedy RW complement to Hagelin, until Fast gets here.

That's how I think we solve the Nash issue: swap players; add enough top end value which Columbus gets 'now', wait a year, they have to add a high pick in 2014.

Flame on!
I could definitely envision this happening!

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