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Old
07-08-2012, 03:13 PM
  #51
Jwm1986
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Not close....How quickly people forget how dominant Stewart was those 2 years in Colorado...

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07-08-2012, 03:19 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by davehamilton100 View Post
You're ridiculous. Gunnarsson has been seen as one of the most under-rated up and coming defenders in the league and Kulemin (with a bounce back year) has far more upside than the departing Stewart.
The thing about saying someone has "far more upside" is that's all potential that may never be reached. Stewart, while coming off a down year, has the ability to score 30 goals a year and be a physical presence if he wants to be. The Blues know what to expect from Stewart being slightly more consistent compared to Kulemin. Plus, Stewart offensively was a force after going to St. Louis in the second half of the 2011 season.

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07-08-2012, 03:32 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by douglasEfresh45 View Post
The thing about saying someone has "far more upside" is that's all potential that may never be reached. Stewart, while coming off a down year, has the ability to score 30 goals a year and be a physical presence if he wants to be. The Blues know what to expect from Stewart being slightly more consistent compared to Kulemin. Plus, Stewart offensively was a force after going to St. Louis in the second half of the 2011 season.
The more I read this thread, the more I wonder if a straight up Kulemin-Stewart swap may be the right move here. Both are coming off bad years, and both seem to have problems coming to terms on long term deals with their organizations.

Stewart will probably make a little bit more than Kulemin on a 1-year deal and is a little bit more physical. Kulemin is a little better on the puck possession / defensive side of the game and has reached the 30-goal plateau.

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07-08-2012, 03:34 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
The more I read this thread, the more I wonder if a straight up Kulemin-Stewart swap may be the right move here. Both are coming off bad years, and both seem to have problems coming to terms on long term deals with their organizations.

Stewart will probably make a little bit more than Kulemin on a 1-year deal and is a little bit more physical. Kulemin is a little better on the puck possession / defensive side of the game and has reached the 30-goal plateau.
Kulemin also sounds like the perfect player to fit into Hitchcock's team.

Hard working, defensively responsible, consistently makes a difference even when not scoring. I really like his upside with the Blues.

That's not to say he's not a good piece for the Leafs to have, I just see him fitting in very well in St. Louis.

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07-08-2012, 03:35 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
The more I read this thread, the more I wonder if a straight up Kulemin-Stewart swap may be the right move here. Both are coming off bad years, and both seem to have problems coming to terms on long term deals with their organizations.

Stewart will probably make a little bit more than Kulemin on a 1-year deal and is a little bit more physical. Kulemin is a little better on the puck possession / defensive side of the game and has reached the 30-goal plateau.
No, Toronto would have to add. Kulemin has only had 1 big NHL season, and Stewart has had 2. Stewart has the higher potential and more likely to regain his old form IMO.

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07-08-2012, 03:38 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
The more I read this thread, the more I wonder if a straight up Kulemin-Stewart swap may be the right move here. Both are coming off bad years, and both seem to have problems coming to terms on long term deals with their organizations.

Stewart will probably make a little bit more than Kulemin on a 1-year deal and is a little bit more physical. Kulemin is a little better on the puck possession / defensive side of the game and has reached the 30-goal plateau.
St.Louis would just assume find out what Stewart can do on his prove it contract. The Blues are not looking to move around wingers here, they need a Center and a top end LHD. If no package can be made to acquire such an asset, then I see them going into the season as is. They did get 109 pts last season.

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07-08-2012, 03:39 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
No, Toronto would have to add. Kulemin has only had 1 big NHL season, and Stewart has had 2. Stewart has the higher potential and more likely to regain his old form IMO.
Doubtful. These are 2 very comparable players. Stewart obviously had 2 big years to Kulemin's 1, but Kulemin's big year was more dominant than Stewart has ever been.

What makes you think Stewart has the higher potential? He's never reached the productivity that Kulemin did from a goalscoring perspective. Furthermore, Stewart's had the opportunity to show what he can do on 2 different organizations and it's pretty much the same. Kulemin's had 1.

Maybe both teams add to make the deal easier to justify... but we're really close on value forsure.

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Originally Posted by TimtheDJ84 View Post
St.Louis would just assume find out what Stewart can do on his prove it contract. The Blues are not looking to move around wingers here, they need a Center and a top end LHD. If no package can be made to acquire such an asset, then I see them going into the season as is. They did get 109 pts last season.
Of course they need a centre just like the Leafs do. But that doesn't prevent them from making other moves that they think may benefit their team.

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07-08-2012, 03:42 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Doubtful. These are 2 very comparable players. Stewart obviously had 2 big years to Kulemin's 1, but Kulemin's big year was more dominant than Stewart has ever been.

What makes you think Stewart has the higher potential? He's never reached the productivity that Kulemin did from a goalscoring perspective. Furthermore, Stewart's had the opportunity to show what he can do on 2 different organizations and it's pretty much the same. Kulemin's had 1.

Maybe both teams add to make the deal easier to justify... but we're really close on value forsure.
Stewart has shown he can score, 28 goal season; then tore it up after the trade to St.Louis. He is younger and coming off a down year. I like Kulemin, I just don't see a 1 for 1 deal being made there.

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07-08-2012, 03:43 PM
  #59
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Stewart has a better goal/game average...

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07-08-2012, 03:44 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Doubtful. These are 2 very comparable players. Stewart obviously had 2 big years to Kulemin's 1, but Kulemin's big year was more dominant than Stewart has ever been.

What makes you think Stewart has the higher potential? He's never reached the productivity that Kulemin did from a goalscoring perspective. Furthermore, Stewart's had the opportunity to show what he can do on 2 different organizations and it's pretty much the same. Kulemin's had 1.

Maybe both teams add to make the deal easier to justify... but we're really close on value forsure.
Stewart has scored 28 goals twice, and one of those seasons was only in 62 games. Kulemin scored 2 more goals in 20 more games. Stewart has been more productive by far and more dominant. Even last season, he more than doubled Kulemin's goal production.

2010-2011 82 game pace: 37 goals 33 assists 70 points

Stewart has been productive with Colorado and St. Louis, so I don't see your point.

How about Stewart's 64 point season in Colorado compared to Kulemin's 36 that season, when it was both their 2nd NHL season.

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Old
07-08-2012, 03:48 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Stewart has scored 28 goals twice, and one of those seasons was only in 62 games. Kulemin scored 2 more goals in 20 more games. Stewart has been more productive by far and more dominant. Even last season, he more than doubled Kulemin's goal production.

2010-2011 82 game pace: 37 goals 33 assists 70 points

Stewart has been productive with Colorado and St. Louis, so I don't see your point.
And Kulemin's never missed more than 12 games in a season... Not completely fair to prorate production on a player who's style of play does lead to injuries.

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Originally Posted by TimtheDJ84 View Post
Stewart has shown he can score, 28 goal season; then tore it up after the trade to St.Louis. He is younger and coming off a down year. I like Kulemin, I just don't see a 1 for 1 deal being made there.
So has Kulemin, 30 goal season. He's better defensively. coming off a down year, and will likely be cheaper.

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07-08-2012, 03:54 PM
  #62
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Are Blues fans possibly the most ******** of all the fan bases? Holy cow it's like OP insulted their mothers or something with the proposal.

Unfortunately instead of peacefully discussing trade proposals it has devolved into senseless and unfair bashing.

One Leaf fan made an unfair/uneducated/bad proposal? The whole fan base is terrible, there are zero assets on the Leafs, all of their players are pure trash, etc etc.

BTW, you guys are just as clueless about Leaf players as Leaf fans are clueless about Blues players. It's kinda how these things work most of the time, so get over it.

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07-08-2012, 03:56 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
And Kulemin's never missed more than 12 games in a season... Not completely fair to prorate production on a player who's style of play does lead to injuries.
He hurt his hand in a fight, more of a freak injury. Point is, you can't say Kulemin was more dominant because when Stewart was on the ice, he was more dominant.

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07-08-2012, 03:58 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Machinae View Post
Are Blues fans possibly the most ******** of all the fan bases? Holy cow it's like OP insulted their mothers or something with the proposal.

Unfortunately instead of peacefully discussing trade proposals it has devolved into senseless and unfair bashing.

One Leaf fan made an unfair/uneducated/bad proposal? The whole fan base is terrible, there are zero assets on the Leafs, all of their players are pure trash, etc etc.

BTW, you guys are just as clueless about Leaf players as Leaf fans are clueless about Blues players. It's kinda how these things work most of the time, so get over it.
You do realize this isn't even close to the first time we've seen a Halak to Toronto thread or a Stewart or a Berglund for that matter. We have repeatedly stated our needs and they are never filled. It is clear that we aren't good trading partners, yet some people never figure that out.

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07-08-2012, 03:59 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Doubtful. These are 2 very comparable players. Stewart obviously had 2 big years to Kulemin's 1, but Kulemin's big year was more dominant than Stewart has ever been.

What makes you think Stewart has the higher potential? He's never reached the productivity that Kulemin did from a goalscoring perspective. Furthermore, Stewart's had the opportunity to show what he can do on 2 different organizations and it's pretty much the same. Kulemin's had 1.

Maybe both teams add to make the deal easier to justify... but we're really close on value forsure.
I am a big fan of Nikolai Kulemin and have been for a while, but the offensive upside of Chris Stewart is far higher.

Kulemin got to 30 goals because he had an insane shooting percentage, that will almost certainly never be repeated. Kulemin is a 20-25 goal, 45-60 point player with a very good all round game. Chris Stewart has the potential of 35-35-70, the difference being he doesn't have the all round game.

Considering the Blues already have plenty of players in the Kulemin mould, then Stewart has far more value to us.

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07-08-2012, 04:02 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
You do realize this isn't even close to the first time we've seen a Halak to Toronto thread or a Stewart or a Berglund for that matter. We have repeatedly stated our needs and they are never filled. It is clear that we aren't good trading partners, yet some people never figure that out.
yes, the thousands and thousands of fans on this forum have looked at every single Tor-Stl trade proposal and despite that have continued to misjudge Stl's needs.

Come on.

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07-08-2012, 04:04 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Machinae View Post
Are Blues fans possibly the most ******** of all the fan bases? Holy cow it's like OP insulted their mothers or something with the proposal.

Unfortunately instead of peacefully discussing trade proposals it has devolved into senseless and unfair bashing.

One Leaf fan made an unfair/uneducated/bad proposal? The whole fan base is terrible, there are zero assets on the Leafs, all of their players are pure trash, etc etc.

BTW, you guys are just as clueless about Leaf players as Leaf fans are clueless about Blues players. It's kinda how these things work most of the time, so get over it.
Proposals like this are consistently brought to the table and they are frustrating because the include assets the Blues simply cannot part with. Also, I don't believe it was a Blues fan who stated you had no assets.

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07-08-2012, 04:07 PM
  #68
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Nope im a blues fan and I definitely stated the Leafs don't have assets outside Kessel and Gardiner who the blues would be interested. Since the leafs aren't trading either theres never much point to these threads.

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07-08-2012, 04:07 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Machinae View Post
yes, the thousands and thousands of fans on this forum have looked at every single Tor-Stl trade proposal and despite that have continued to misjudge Stl's needs.

Come on.
There is a search function that can be used to see that the same trades have been talked about over and over.

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07-08-2012, 04:09 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinae View Post
Are Blues fans possibly the most ******** of all the fan bases? Holy cow it's like OP insulted their mothers or something with the proposal.

Unfortunately instead of peacefully discussing trade proposals it has devolved into senseless and unfair bashing.

One Leaf fan made an unfair/uneducated/bad proposal? The whole fan base is terrible, there are zero assets on the Leafs, all of their players are pure trash, etc etc.

BTW, you guys are just as clueless about Leaf players as Leaf fans are clueless about Blues players. It's kinda how these things work most of the time, so get over it.
So you feel that people are generalizing too much so you follow it up with a generalization?

You want a "peaceful" discussion and you suggest our fan base is ********?

Then you follow it up with ignorance stating we're clueless?

If you want to vent, it'd be safer in a Leafs forum where your illogical thinking was supported.

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07-08-2012, 04:09 PM
  #71
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I wasn't talking about the original proposal, I think it is pretty bad too... And there are sooooo many leafs fans on this board, you don't think we'll have a few more bad proposals from our fans then a team like Phoenix's fans?
That's fair. But the point I was trying to make is that none of the proposals have pieces that the Blues would be interested in.

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07-08-2012, 04:10 PM
  #72
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Nope im a blues fan and I definitely stated the Leafs don't have assets outside Kessel and Gardiner who the blues would be interested. Since the leafs aren't trading either theres never much point to these threads.
Out of context then. Stating a team has no assets versus stating they have no assets that hold value to a particular team are different things.

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Old
07-08-2012, 04:11 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinae View Post
Are Blues fans possibly the most ******** of all the fan bases? Holy cow it's like OP insulted their mothers or something with the proposal.

Unfortunately instead of peacefully discussing trade proposals it has devolved into senseless and unfair bashing.

One Leaf fan made an unfair/uneducated/bad proposal? The whole fan base is terrible, there are zero assets on the Leafs, all of their players are pure trash, etc etc.

BTW, you guys are just as clueless about Leaf players as Leaf fans are clueless about Blues players. It's kinda how these things work most of the time, so get over it.
No one said there are zero assets. What was said are there are zero assets that match up well for the Blues to make a trade. Big difference.

People get irritated seeing the same Halak to Toronto offers once a week.

The Leafs biggest needs from what I can presume are a number 1 center to play with Kessel and a goalie that can step in now and allow Reimer to develop.

Seeing as the Blues have a similar need at center and have stated over and over and over and over and over again that it makes zero sense to trade Halak, it can be reasonably inferred that the teams don't match up well for a trade.

Can you not understand why the fan base might get frustrated? They are asked what their needs are, those needs generally (not always though) get ignored and then people wonder why they get irritated.

It shouldn't be a huge shock. Toronto has some nice pieces that would be attractive to other teams, just not St. Louis

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Old
07-08-2012, 04:13 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinae View Post
Are Blues fans possibly the most ******** of all the fan bases? Holy cow it's like OP insulted their mothers or something with the proposal.

Unfortunately instead of peacefully discussing trade proposals it has devolved into senseless and unfair bashing.

One Leaf fan made an unfair/uneducated/bad proposal? The whole fan base is terrible, there are zero assets on the Leafs, all of their players are pure trash, etc etc.

BTW, you guys are just as clueless about Leaf players as Leaf fans are clueless about Blues players. It's kinda how these things work most of the time, so get over it.
And you apparently are overlooking why everyone is up in arms. Because this kind of crap proposal is made once a day on these boards. It gets really old very fast

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Old
07-08-2012, 04:14 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinae View Post
Are Blues fans possibly the most ******** of all the fan bases? Holy cow it's like OP insulted their mothers or something with the proposal.

Unfortunately instead of peacefully discussing trade proposals it has devolved into senseless and unfair bashing.

One Leaf fan made an unfair/uneducated/bad proposal? The whole fan base is terrible, there are zero assets on the Leafs, all of their players are pure trash, etc etc.

BTW, you guys are just as clueless about Leaf players as Leaf fans are clueless about Blues players. It's kinda how these things work most of the time, so get over it.

Ya, because this is totally the first unreasonable trade proposal posted by a Leaf fan

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