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Free Agent Frenzy (Part VIII): Still no decision with Doan

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Old
07-08-2012, 02:51 PM
  #101
Brian Boyle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
My latest thoughts, updating no Schultz, etc.
Do not want Hagelin + Miller + etc moved, weakens depth.

Can live without Stepan, who, be honest, bailed on us most of the year... as long as we get value and are not giving him away.

1 Boyle, Rupp, Stacjer, Mike Vernace, Pashnin + Rangers 2nd 2013
for Gernat, Marancin, Pitlick + Edmonton 1st 2013.

2. Dubinsky + Biron + St. Croix +RW Shane McColgan + LW Jason Wilson + NYR 4th 2013
to Hawks for Olsen + McNeil + Stralberg

3. Stepan + rights to JAM + Rangers 2013 1st + Edmonton 2013 1st
Nash + CBJ 2014 1st (agree to 2014 instead of next year in lieu of other assets NY gives up)

4. C.Thomas + Danny Hobbs + RW Tommy Grant + D Blake Parlett
Gardiner + pick

optional #5
MDZ, +++ for Hedman

sign Semin; 1st line until Gaborik returns; then either 2nd RW (Callahan down 1) or 3rd RW bumping Stralberg

Nash Richards Semin/Gaborik
Kreider Anisimov Callahan
Hagelin JT. Miller Semin/Stralberg
Pyatt Haley Asham

Staal Girardi
McDonagh MDZ Stalman
Erixon McIlrath
Gardiner

Lundqvist
Talbot

Bickel = reserve tough forward
Olsen = can prob = 3rd pair now, gets here if upgrade (Hedman?) for Girardi/MDZ +
McNeil + here soon
Yogan = scoring C soon knocking at the door/let him show what he can do, then keep/trade whichever is more advantageous

Gernat, Marancin = ideal lefty bookends for righty prospects Noreau, Ceresniak
Pitlick = speedy F should be developing at AHL
Stralberg = speedy RW complement to Hagelin, until Fast gets here.

That's how I think we solve the Nash issue: swap players; add enough top end value which Columbus gets 'now', wait a year, they have to add a high pick in 2014.

Flame on!
Those are some horrid proposals

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Old
07-08-2012, 02:51 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
My latest thoughts, updating no Schultz, etc.
Do not want Hagelin + Miller + etc moved, weakens depth.

Can live without Stepan, who, be honest, bailed on us most of the year... as long as we get value and are not giving him away.

1 Boyle, Rupp, Stacjer, Mike Vernace, Pashnin + Rangers 2nd 2013
for Gernat, Marancin, Pitlick + Edmonton 1st 2013.

2. Dubinsky + Biron + St. Croix +RW Shane McColgan + LW Jason Wilson + NYR 4th 2013
to Hawks for Olsen + McNeil + Stralberg

3. Stepan + rights to JAM + Rangers 2013 1st + Edmonton 2013 1st
Nash + CBJ 2014 1st (agree to 2014 instead of next year in lieu of other assets NY gives up)

4. C.Thomas + Danny Hobbs + RW Tommy Grant + D Blake Parlett
Gardiner + pick

optional #5
MDZ, +++ for Hedman

sign Semin; 1st line until Gaborik returns; then either 2nd RW (Callahan down 1) or 3rd RW bumping Stralberg

Nash Richards Semin/Gaborik
Kreider Anisimov Callahan
Hagelin JT. Miller Semin/Stralberg
Pyatt Haley Asham

Staal Girardi
McDonagh MDZ Stalman
Erixon McIlrath
Gardiner

Lundqvist
Talbot

Bickel = reserve tough forward
Olsen = can prob = 3rd pair now, gets here if upgrade (Hedman?) for Girardi/MDZ +
McNeil + here soon
Yogan = scoring C soon knocking at the door/let him show what he can do, then keep/trade whichever is more advantageous

Gernat, Marancin = ideal lefty bookends for righty prospects Noreau, Ceresniak
Pitlick = speedy F should be developing at AHL
Stralberg = speedy RW complement to Hagelin, until Fast gets here.

That's how I think we solve the Nash issue: swap players; add enough top end value which Columbus gets 'now', wait a year, they have to add a high pick in 2014.

Flame on!
no, just.... no.

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Old
07-08-2012, 02:52 PM
  #103
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stepan bailed on us? Thats when i stopped reading because the rest of what you said cant be worth much.

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Old
07-08-2012, 02:53 PM
  #104
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Also, we'd be trading the rights to Columbus for a player they've already signed.

Great proposal, not at all unreasonable.

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07-08-2012, 02:53 PM
  #105
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Old
07-08-2012, 02:54 PM
  #106
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btw, how off are Stepan and Oshie in terms of value? Oshie is a center right?

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Old
07-08-2012, 02:54 PM
  #107
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Don't trade Hagelin or Miller! We need depth! Trade Stepan!

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Old
07-08-2012, 02:55 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Hagelin was almost 3 years older than Stepan was in their rookie years
i didn't mention anything about their ages because honestly it's irrelevant. hagelin also had AHL conditioning and came from europe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Just my personal opinion, but I think you're going to be awfully disappointed if you expect Hagelin's offensive game to take off.

I dont get that impression with Stepan, who I believe has just scratched the surface of his ability.
who said anything about expecting hagelin's offensive game to take off? i don't think either one is going to 'take off'. i think they're both going to gradually develop into better 2-way players. i don't think we're going to see both of them netting 30 goals and getting 70 points next year. 50 is possible, and 60 is not out of the question for either guy with the right lines.

the two kids bring a solid balance. it's not the end of the world if we have to keep both in a top 6 role.

and hagelin may not be a playmaker or a puck handler, but his speed makes people choke, which is basically his role on the ice. i'd rather see him in a 3rd line role, but 48 points as a rookie is nothing to ignore with his skating he'll only improve.

tbh i just wanted to see what people responded. lol

obviously the problem with stepan is that we can't replace him with anybody on the team. hagelin we can

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Old
07-08-2012, 02:56 PM
  #109
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Bern, You can't tell me this is real. Put the Xbox controller down. I know Be a GM Mode is fun...but tone it down a little.

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Old
07-08-2012, 02:59 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Looking to see who is available as the season progresses. Offense is a need, but I am more confident in our ability to get a 25 goal guy, even as a rental, than I am in our ability to get a guy who is one of the top defenseman in the game.

For all the talk about getting offense, there are only two big names tobe had at the moment. Semin, who I am not crazy about and who is looking for a big contract himself. And Nash, who is very good, but who has the same cost as Weber, the same salary range, but isn't nearly as high in the food chain for his respective position.

I want offense, but I also think that we haven bigger window to address it. On the other hand, guys like Weber just don't come around often.
Whats a realistic package for Weber? Staal, Miller, #1 pick? And thats before the 15 years/120M or so that he will command.

This team has managed to build a top 4 on defense that is greater than the sum of its parts. I really enjoyed that this season. Im not enamored with the idea of breaking the bank for a guy thats going to have to be every bit "the man" back there to be accepted by this fanbase. It just seems to set up for disaster, but thats admittedly me being a bit paranoid.

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Old
07-08-2012, 02:59 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
36 months
100 percent correct.

Adding to that, Staal makes, I believe, $5.75 million for the 2014-15 season, $4m plus the year before and something like $3.75m this year.

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Old
07-08-2012, 03:00 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killem Dafoe View Post
Don't trade Hagelin or Miller! We need depth! Trade Stepan!
How does the last 2 words of your post make any sense in reference to the rest of it?

Especially considering center depth is one of the most important components of the game.

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Old
07-08-2012, 03:01 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
You don't trade for player that can be signed as a free agent in one year.
depends on the player...if the player is good enough there is a good chance that a trade is the only way you can get him cause one way or another he'll be signed by someone before becoming a ufa

there have been plenty of times that i've eyed potential free agents in a year or 2 and then those guys never became available...sometimes the best move is to stand pat and be patient. but sometimes the best move is to 'be a lion' and go for the guy now

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Old
07-08-2012, 03:02 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
How does the last 2 words of your post make any sense in reference to the rest of it?

Especially considering center depth is one of the most important components of the game.
come on man.

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Old
07-08-2012, 03:02 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
depends on the player...if the player is good enough there is a good chance that a trade is the only way you can get him cause one way or another he'll be signed by someone before becoming a ufa

there have been plenty of times that i've eyed potential free agents in a year or 2 and then those guys never became available...sometimes the best move is to stand pat and be patient. but sometimes the best move is to 'be a lion' and go for the guy now
alla Chris Paul

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Old
07-08-2012, 03:03 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I could definitely envision this happening!
Feel free to offer any constructive analysis in support of your 2cents.

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Old
07-08-2012, 03:05 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Feel free to offer any constructive analysis in support of your 2cents.
Do I really need to? You threw in at least 8 prospects that have no value whatsoever into 4 trades - one more ridiculous than the next.

If you want some constructive analysis, it would be to stop wasting your time on trade proposals that involve Mike Vernace and Jason Wilson.

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Old
07-08-2012, 03:06 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
My latest thoughts, updating no Schultz, etc.
Do not want Hagelin + Miller + etc moved, weakens depth.

Can live without Stepan, who, be honest, bailed on us most of the year... as long as we get value and are not giving him away.

1 Boyle, Rupp, Stacjer, Mike Vernace, Pashnin + Rangers 2nd 2013
for Gernat, Marancin, Pitlick + Edmonton 1st 2013.

2. Dubinsky + Biron + St. Croix +RW Shane McColgan + LW Jason Wilson + NYR 4th 2013
to Hawks for Olsen + McNeil + Stralberg

3. Stepan + rights to JAM + Rangers 2013 1st + Edmonton 2013 1st
Nash + CBJ 2014 1st (agree to 2014 instead of next year in lieu of other assets NY gives up)

4. C.Thomas + Danny Hobbs + RW Tommy Grant + D Blake Parlett
Gardiner + pick

optional #5
MDZ, +++ for Hedman

sign Semin; 1st line until Gaborik returns; then either 2nd RW (Callahan down 1) or 3rd RW bumping Stralberg

Nash Richards Semin/Gaborik
Kreider Anisimov Callahan
Hagelin JT. Miller Semin/Stralberg
Pyatt Haley Asham

Staal Girardi
McDonagh MDZ Stalman
Erixon McIlrath
Gardiner

Lundqvist
Talbot

Bickel = reserve tough forward
Olsen = can prob = 3rd pair now, gets here if upgrade (Hedman?) for Girardi/MDZ +
McNeil + here soon
Yogan = scoring C soon knocking at the door/let him show what he can do, then keep/trade whichever is more advantageous

Gernat, Marancin = ideal lefty bookends for righty prospects Noreau, Ceresniak
Pitlick = speedy F should be developing at AHL
Stralberg = speedy RW complement to Hagelin, until Fast gets here.

That's how I think we solve the Nash issue: swap players; add enough top end value which Columbus gets 'now', wait a year, they have to add a high pick in 2014.

Flame on!
With pleasure. So our 21 year old second year second line center puts up 51 points and he's bailed on us? WTF are you smoking? You're trading the rights to JAM after Columbus just signed him to a 3 year ELC? Trading our backup goalie who we just signed? Making 10 players trades--trading away at least half if not two thirds of our prospect depth?

Center depth--Richards--Anisimov-Miller (you sure he's ready?)-Haley? Looks a little shabby.

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Old
07-08-2012, 03:07 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Whats a realistic package for Weber? Staal, Miller, #1 pick? And thats before the 15 years/120M or so that he will command.

This team has managed to build a top 4 on defense that is greater than the sum of its parts. I really enjoyed that this season. Im not enamored with the idea of breaking the bank for a guy thats going to have to be every bit "the man" back there to be accepted by this fanbase. It just seems to set up for disaster, but thats admittedly me being a bit paranoid.
Realistic- Staal, a top prospect, a secondary prospect or young player and a top pick.

As for the top four, it also has proven to be pretty versatile. No one thought we could survive without Staal and we did.

And I like Weber's odds of being the man more than I like Nash's or Semin's, to be honest.

I like what we have here. But I also know that it's really easy to fall in love with homegrown players and not want to make any moves. Because fans on these boards remember the dry years, I think it's created a paranoia about making any moves and that's just as dangerous as making too many.

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07-08-2012, 03:08 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I could not disagree more. I cant get on board with trading Staal ++ and giving a guy a 14 year/$115M contract just because he can make the powerplay better. Its brutal asset management.

Besides, the powerplay wasnt a huge problem in the playoffs (especially as it wore on).

Boston won a cup 2 seasons ago with no powerplay to speak of, same with Los Angeles this season. They won with some serious depth up front and rock solid defense/goaltending. This Rangers team is missing the depth up front. I fail to see how handing Weber a ridiculous deal helps that now or down the road.
It's a lot more than that. Weber is one of the 5-6 best players in the league. 1-2 defenseman in the league. He brings the total package. The term is a little scary (the dollars are the dollars) but that's the way the game is played right now. And if you don't move on him, be assured someone else (probably in your division) will.

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07-08-2012, 03:08 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Whats a realistic package for Weber? Staal, Miller, #1 pick? And thats before the 15 years/120M or so that he will command.

This team has managed to build a top 4 on defense that is greater than the sum of its parts. I really enjoyed that this season. Im not enamored with the idea of breaking the bank for a guy thats going to have to be every bit "the man" back there to be accepted by this fanbase. It just seems to set up for disaster, but thats admittedly me being a bit paranoid.
With Current assets?

Staal, Dubinsky/Anisimov/Hagelin, Thomas/McI/Erixon/Miller/Skeji, various picks.

Multiple configurations can come out of that. The package would be centered around Staal.

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07-08-2012, 03:10 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
100 percent correct.

Adding to that, Staal makes, I believe, $5.75 million for the 2014-15 season, $4m plus the year before and something like $3.75m this year.
Yeah. I fully agree that a deal involving Staal and more for Weber could make sense. But I don't want to discount how valuable 3 more years of Staal at a cap hit of $3.975M are, especially considering how tight those years will likely be cap-wise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
i didn't mention anything about their ages because honestly it's irrelevant. hagelin also had AHL conditioning and came from europe.
Age is irrelevant when evaluating player's performances?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Feel free to offer any constructive analysis in support of your 2cents.
You should add more quantity going to Edmonton and Toronto.

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Old
07-08-2012, 03:15 PM
  #123
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Yeah. I fully agree that a deal involving Staal and more for Weber could make sense. But I don't want to discount how valuable 3 more years of Staal at a cap hit of $3.975M are, especially considering how tight those years will likely be cap-wise.


Age is irrelevant when evaluating player's performances?


You should add more quantity going to Edmonton and Toronto.
The cap situation might be helped if another roster playe goes with Staal. Even without, the cap difference over the next three years amounts to approx. $4m, $3.5m, $2.25 million. Give or take several hundred thousand. Over that time we will also lose Gaborik's contract and possibly a few more if young guys push vets.

Make no mistake, the salary is a challenge. But Weber's age is thing that puts it over the top for me. If he were three of four years older, I'd probably be a bit more hesitant.

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07-08-2012, 03:16 PM
  #124
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Subtracting two roster players and adding one detracts from depth.

Depth IS scoring depth.

Again, this isn't a video game where you can play 5 guys without consequence.

Two lines? Great. Whose playing the rest of the time?

When 50% of your 12 forwards comprise of hack 4th line players there's major issues.

Nash adds a primary scorer and opens up a ton of holes as far as secondary scoring depth.

If its Dubinsky and Anisimov, you already have to move Pyatt up to the third line and add a rookie.

Forgetting the salary cap.

Its about getting value. Not about top loading a roster.

Add Doan.

Now you have a third line with two 20 goal scores (Dubinsky and Callahan) and a defensive center Anisimov.

Trade Dubinsky for Stafford and you increase your production while subtracting salary. Add a rookie to the bottom lines.

Either option is better than subtracting several pieces for one and adding salary.
Subtracting two roster players - Anisimov/Dubinsky (w 1st/prospect) - if it can be done - and adding a star first liner in a trade is a deal you make 10 times out of 10. I know enough about hockey to realize this is not a video game. I'm not advocating that you completely decimate the roster here. However, when you look at most Stanley Cup teams you can see that at some point they make a big move or two to try and solve a weakness whether it be scoring, defense, goalie etc... To put them over the top. If this team stands pat and decides to sign a 35 yr old Doan to a 4 year contract, then that is folly. This team could not score in the playoffs. If the Rangers want to win a cup, then this must be addressed at some point. If you want to go after someone else, then fine but at some point a glaring whole must be filled. This is NOT a terrible depth move. Nash could very possibly out score the two combined while taking pressure off Gabby whose going to be coming back at Mid season with a serious injury. I find it difficult to believe that Dubinskys numbers from last season can't be replaced through trade or UFA.

Also, Dubinsky for Stafford is an HF idea - I haven't seen this any place so I don't see how you keep penciling him in. Dubinsky can play center, but he's coming off an awful year. Everyone here thinks its a great move which tells you it could be a bit one-sided.

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07-08-2012, 03:17 PM
  #125
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It's a lot more than that. Weber is one of the 5-6 best players in the league. 1-2 defenseman in the league. He brings the total package. The term is a little scary (the dollars are the dollars) but that's the way the game is played right now. And if you don't move on him, be assured someone else (probably in your division) will.
The only team that can realistically get that done(in our division)would be the Flyers. Pitt doesn't have the roster players to make that happen(although they have the space). NJ has the space, but no assets.

The Flyers, I would assume, would be the front runners. But they would have to pay a significant sum in forwards for that to work. They would probably lose both Schenn/Couturier in the process.

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