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Old
07-05-2012, 09:02 PM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChairmanCat View Post
just thought I'd add Whitney and Jagr is almost a sure thing on the same line. Jagr prefers playing with a people who are right shots...

Whitney-Benn-Jagr will be a pretty sick line, so jealous the Stars signed Whitney and Jagr.
GMJN has the top 6 looking like this:

Eriksson - Benn - Jagr
Whitney - Roy - Ryder

But Gully might change it up or something.

One thing is certain: Benn will have two legit top 6 wingers to play with this go around. And Morrow will finally have a bottom 6 role.

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07-05-2012, 09:48 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by ChairmanCat View Post
just thought I'd add Whitney and Jagr is almost a sure thing on the same line. Jagr prefers playing with a people who are right shots...
Maybe but I doubt it. Benn will almost definitely start the season playing with Eriksson and Jagr. If Jagr ends up playing with Whitney it will probably be with Roy, not Benn.

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07-05-2012, 10:27 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
I don't really know why.

Okay, more realistic:

Eriksson - 24G, 48A, 72P
Benn - 38G, 35A, 73P
Jagr - 15G, 38A, 53P
Whitney - 13G, 39A, 52P
Roy - 27G, 28A, 55P
Ryder - 29G, 24A, 53P

Better?
I think all of us fans would be happy with four 50+ point scorers and two 70+ point scorers. The estimates look pretty realistic. I still agree with you that they could be higher. But, I am hopelessly optimistic with the Stars. Always have been.

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07-06-2012, 09:33 AM
  #179
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yep Jagr was with Giroux and Hartnell.. but i still expect to get at least same points, but i'm hoping for more. Why?

1)
because the bigger part of season he was put into 2nd PP line that never worked, ever. They usually went for last 20 seconds if lucky than for nearly 1 minute. They had hard times to even settle in offensive zone because of no chemistry at all, those guys were pain to watch.

2) Jagr wasn't used on PP on his favorite spot.. GOD knows why..
if you look at his PP goals you will figure his spot.. that didn't happen last season

if dallas will put Jagr to 1st PP and get himn on spot with decent linemates.. i expect a lot more points than he had last year

3) Jagr know how he should prepare for next season better

4) He will heal over summer

Let's just hope things will click

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07-06-2012, 10:06 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Xegiie View Post
yep Jagr was with Giroux and Hartnell.. but i still expect to get at least same points, but i'm hoping for more. Why?

1)
because the bigger part of season he was put into 2nd PP line that never worked, ever. They usually went for last 20 seconds if lucky than for nearly 1 minute. They had hard times to even settle in offensive zone because of no chemistry at all, those guys were pain to watch.

2) Jagr wasn't used on PP on his favorite spot.. GOD knows why..
if you look at his PP goals you will figure his spot.. that didn't happen last season

if dallas will put Jagr to 1st PP and get himn on spot with decent linemates.. i expect a lot more points than he had last year

3) Jagr know how he should prepare for next season better

4) He will heal over summer

Let's just hope things will click
That was strange last year with Philly. In the preseason, he was on the right side ripping one timers all day long. Then he scored one from the slot in preseason and boom, that was his new favorite spot, until Hartnell took it.

The only time he would line up for onsies on the right were on 5 on 3's.

Get Jagr to start ripping one timers on the PP all day long and teams will have to pay close attention to him, leaving Benn, Roy, Whitney, etc.. open on the far side or slot.

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07-06-2012, 11:02 AM
  #181
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I think it was Hartnell or Jagr, and they chose the long term choice. Don't blame them.

For that spot, at least. That was a big reason why Hartnell scored as many as he did this year.

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07-06-2012, 02:24 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
I think it was Hartnell or Jagr, and they chose the long term choice. Don't blame them.

For that spot, at least. That was a big reason why Hartnell scored as many as he did this year.
Hartnell killed it from the slot on the PP. Not sure why Jagr didn't set up on the right wall for one timers still. They rarely ever used him there.

Then he became expendable on the 1st PP when a faster Voracek showed he could carry the puck in more productively than Jagr.

Back in 05-06, Jagr killed it form the right wall on the PP and had an amazing 123 points. Points that Crosby, Malkin, Sedins, Overchin, etc... could not get to since.

He did that with Petr Prucha, Michael Nylander, Michael Roczival, and Martin Straka. Mainly because no one thought he was that much of a threat until it was too late. The next year, everyone double teamed Jagr and his production failed.

The Stars should do everything they can to mimic his play in 05-06. Either they leave Jagr open and he is free to snipe and sauce all over the place. Or they cover him and it leaves Benn, Whitney, and Loui open to snipe.

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07-06-2012, 04:21 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by NHLsnipers View Post
Hartnell killed it from the slot on the PP. Not sure why Jagr didn't set up on the right wall for one timers still. They rarely ever used him there.

Then he became expendable on the 1st PP when a faster Voracek showed he could carry the puck in more productively than Jagr.

Back in 05-06, Jagr killed it form the right wall on the PP and had an amazing 123 points. Points that Crosby, Malkin, Sedins, Overchin, etc... could not get to since.

He did that with Petr Prucha, Michael Nylander, Michael Roczival, and Martin Straka. Mainly because no one thought he was that much of a threat until it was too late.The next year, everyone double teamed Jagr and his production failed.

The Stars should do everything they can to mimic his play in 05-06. Either they leave Jagr open and he is free to snipe and sauce all over the place. Or they cover him and it leaves Benn, Whitney, and Loui open to snipe.
His shoulder wasn't 100% healthy in 06/07 (he had to undergo a surgery in the summer 2006), that's why he scored only 30 goals compared to 54 in 05/06. Also, scoring went down league-wide.

With respect to the Flyers, it's true Laviolette didn't use him properly on the PP. And as great as Giroux is, I don't think that their run & gun style of play really suited him that well at equal strength. He prefers a patient, possession based cycling game with a lot of short passes along the boards. He's still immensely strong on the puck, has great hands and vision, on the other hand, not really fast any more and not that effective when playing a frenzy north-south game.

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07-08-2012, 07:01 AM
  #184
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The expecations on Jagr seem a bit over the top. You realize he will turn what 42 during the season or is it 41?

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07-08-2012, 09:53 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Lesky View Post
The expecations on Jagr seem a bit over the top. You realize he will turn what 42 during the season or is it 41?
I gave my pessimistic and optimistic views; 50 on the low end, 80 on the high end. It all comes down to how he is utilized and injuries of course.

I just think they changed his identity too much in Philly. He is a cycling on the boards type guy, who snipes and rips one timers from the right side. Then if covered he is still one of the best passers in the league and needs guys open to finish for him.

In Philly, he got into the run and gun style too much and tried to be the guy carrying the puck through 3 guys all the time. He has the hands still to do it, but the speed isn't there anymore.

I am a huge Jagr fan and biased, but could see 80+ points from him if injuries don't catch him, and if he is utilized correctly on the PP and ES.

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07-08-2012, 10:22 AM
  #186
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Given the talent he will play with I don't think expecting 50 points out of him if he plays 75+ games is too lofty.

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07-08-2012, 10:59 AM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesky View Post
The expecations on Jagr seem a bit over the top. You realize he will turn what 42 during the season or is it 41?
50-60 points is over the top? It may be pushing it, but over the top?

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07-08-2012, 11:04 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by ReaallMunson18 View Post
50-60 points is over the top? It may be pushing it, but over the top?
not "over the top" but "A BIT over the top," sure. maybe.

a replication of last season would be fine with me.

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07-08-2012, 11:11 AM
  #189
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Jagr's points fell off in the last 20% of the season because of his poor health. He was on pace for mid-60's or 70's for much of the season. If his points went either direction it wouldn't surprise me right now. It could be that he gets his NHL legs back a bit more and there's even an uptick. On the other hand, he's 40 now. He could merely get worse. There's no telling, but nothing would totally shock me w/ Jagr.

Then there's the linemate factor, of course. Benn seems to be a pretty directly go-to-the-net go and that might work well. On the other hand, he's not Giroux. Then again, Giroux was only Giroux light until he played with Jagr.

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07-08-2012, 03:12 PM
  #190
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Jagr will turn 41, it doesn't mean he will get automaticly worse

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07-08-2012, 03:48 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Xegiie View Post
Jagr will turn 41, it doesn't mean he will get automaticly worse
Pretty much does dude. Haven't you seen the jokes about Jagr and Whitney in the Doan thread?

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07-08-2012, 04:50 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by The Frugal Gourmet View Post
Jagr's points fell off in the last 20% of the season because of his poor health. He was on pace for mid-60's or 70's for much of the season. If his points went either direction it wouldn't surprise me right now. It could be that he gets his NHL legs back a bit more and there's even an uptick. On the other hand, he's 40 now. He could merely get worse. There's no telling, but nothing would totally shock me w/ Jagr.
You have to think going from a few 60 game seasons back to an 82 game season played a role. At least that's what my optimism wants to believe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Frugal Gourmet View Post
Then there's the linemate factor, of course. Benn seems to be a pretty directly go-to-the-net go and that might work well. On the other hand, he's not Giroux. Then again, Giroux was only Giroux light until he played with Jagr.
Giroux light still produced more than Benn.

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07-08-2012, 05:15 PM
  #193
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Giroux light still produced more than Benn.
Benn (at the age of 22) has played 222 games in the NHL and scored 160 points.

Giroux reached his 222th NHL games early last season (at the age of 23). At that point he had score 169 points.

I'm not trying to say that Benn will equal Giroux and produce 90+ points in a season, but its not unreasonable to believe that he'll have a significant increase in production if he plays an entire season with quality linemates.

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07-08-2012, 06:16 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Fly Like a C5 View Post
Benn (at the age of 22) has played 222 games in the NHL and scored 160 points.

Giroux reached his 222th NHL games early last season (at the age of 23). At that point he had score 169 points.

I'm not trying to say that Benn will equal Giroux and produce 90+ points in a season, but its not unreasonable to believe that he'll have a significant increase in production if he plays an entire season with quality linemates.
And maybe his points will go up if he gets some actual PP time as well

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07-08-2012, 07:10 PM
  #195
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And maybe his points will go up if he gets some actual PP time as well
This x 10,000,000

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07-08-2012, 08:56 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
Giroux light still produced more than Benn.
Negligible difference, unless your concern with Benn is health. Assuming the same number of games, it comes out to a 3 point difference.


Last edited by The Frugal Gourmet: 07-08-2012 at 09:05 PM.
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07-08-2012, 09:14 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by The Frugal Gourmet View Post
Negligible difference, unless your concern with Benn is health. Assuming the same number of games, it comes out to a 3 point difference.
I dont think it's really an argument(or any point to compare the two), Giroux is more offensively talented than Benn. And imho the better player.

I see Benn at his high end being a PPG player, Giroux has clearly shown he is/can be above a PPG. (I'd love to be proven wrong about Benn though )


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07-08-2012, 09:22 PM
  #198
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I dont think it's really an argument(or any point to compare the two), Giroux is more offensively talented than Benn. And imho the better player.

I see Benn at his high end being a PPG player, Giroux has clearly shown he is/can be above a PPG. (I'd love to be proven wrong about Benn though )
Yeah. It's usually a poor bet that he or any other player develops into a 90+ point player. I was expressing my ultimate fantasy that Giroux producing at a nearly identical clip to Benn before Jagr might mean something.


Last edited by The Frugal Gourmet: 07-08-2012 at 09:34 PM.
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07-08-2012, 11:00 PM
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaallMunson18 View Post
I dont think it's really an argument(or any point to compare the two), Giroux is more offensively talented than Benn. And imho the better player.

I see Benn at his high end being a PPG player, Giroux has clearly shown he is/can be above a PPG. (I'd love to be proven wrong about Benn though )
I honestly think Giroux is gonna drop to ~PPG or just over w/o Jagr.

Giroux will be around 85-90 points. Benn at around 80-85 with a great season next year.

But I think both could and probably will be better than that.

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07-08-2012, 11:09 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
I honestly think Giroux is gonna drop to ~PPG or just over w/o Jagr.

Giroux will be around 85-90 points. Benn at around 80-85 with a great season next year.

But I think both could and probably will be better than that.
I think you are giving jagr too much credit, but I would gladly see myself proven wrong on that

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