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Is the Blue Jacket defense a finished product?

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Old
06-25-2012, 02:47 PM
  #76
Nordique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gojackets1 View Post
I think we will see one or maybe 2 of Methot, Moore, and Savard traded just to make space for Murray. There isn't any purpose of having him play juniors another year if he's already NHL top 4 ready, imo. Of course, I could be wrong. Wouldn't be surprised to see Methot traded to the Oilers for a young forward of theirs.
Murray doesn't look physically ready imo. 18 is very young for an NHL defenseman, his 185 lbs seems generous, and he's never played against men besides this years WC. He is very talented and possibly capable of making the transition from Juniors to the NHL, but I don't see him being ready physically this year. I think we have a pair of 21 year olds in Moore and Savard that are more fit overall for this coming season.

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06-25-2012, 03:03 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
Murray doesn't look physically ready imo. 18 is very young for an NHL defenseman, his 185 lbs seems generous, and he's never played against men besides this years WC.
They usually don't look physically ready and they have rarely played against men at this age.

Camp will decide if he's ready enough. If he is, it's up to the coaching staff to manage his development. We can always look at him for nine games.

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06-25-2012, 05:24 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
They usually don't look physically ready and they have rarely played against men at this age.

Camp will decide if he's ready enough. If he is, it's up to the coaching staff to manage his development. We can always look at him for nine games.
Exactly. The question is would we have to return him to juniors? I suspect so.

I want Moore and Murray playing regularly, and not in the press box except to rest. If anyone sits it should be Methot. If we're tempted to sit one of the kids, send him down. Better playing then watching.

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06-25-2012, 09:40 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by FlaggerX View Post
Exactly. The question is would we have to return him to juniors? I suspect so.

I want Moore and Murray playing regularly, and not in the press box except to rest. If anyone sits it should be Methot. If we're tempted to sit one of the kids, send him down. Better playing then watching.
I agree, don't sit him, and don't rush him.

18 is rare for a defensman to play a full season in the NHL. Doughty did it, but it was not pretty that first season. Pietrangelo debuted when he was 20, Karlsson 19 when he played 60 games in his first season.

We'll see him at camp, maybe he'll roid up before then.

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06-26-2012, 10:02 PM
  #80
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Kings fan here, don't let Murray rot as your sixth or seventh defenseman. Make him your second pairing D in the AHL and let him earn his way to the top pairing. Then in the next two years, let him earn a middle pairing job on the NHL club. Having him compete to earn a job should do wonders for his development.

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06-26-2012, 10:27 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
Kings fan here, don't let Murray rot as your sixth or seventh defenseman. Make him your second pairing D in the AHL and let him earn his way to the top pairing. Then in the next two years, let him earn a middle pairing job on the NHL club. Having him compete to earn a job should do wonders for his development.
I think he starts third pairing but might move up to the second pairing by the end of the season. Nikitin could learn to play without Tyutin as he gets more time to adjust as well. There's a reason we've heard nonstop on how NHL ready this kid vs. the rest of his draft is though and he might prove it this season.

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06-26-2012, 10:30 PM
  #82
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i don't believe he's eligible for AHL is he?

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06-26-2012, 10:38 PM
  #83
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Fro

I believe you are correct. Under 20 form North America is either NHL or back to your Junior team I do believe.

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06-26-2012, 10:45 PM
  #84
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Murray turns 19 before the season starts, so he's practically like a 2011 draft pick. He's played 3 seasons in the WHL and there's not much more he can do there. He's not old enough for the AHL. It's more like a situation with Ryan Johansen last season - that limbo between the CHL/NHL.

Occasionally being scratched isn't always a bad thing for youngsters in the NHL. Watching a game can give them a different perspective and help them sort of reset after a few bad games. But Murray shouldn't be regularly in the press box. He has little to gain from playing in the WHL, but playing is better than regularly watching for any defenseman.

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06-27-2012, 01:01 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by JacketsFanWest View Post
Murray turns 19 before the season starts, so he's practically like a 2011 draft pick. He's played 3 seasons in the WHL and there's not much more he can do there. He's not old enough for the AHL. It's more like a situation with Ryan Johansen last season - that limbo between the CHL/NHL.

Occasionally being scratched isn't always a bad thing for youngsters in the NHL. Watching a game can give them a different perspective and help them sort of reset after a few bad games. But Murray shouldn't be regularly in the press box. He has little to gain from playing in the WHL, but playing is better than regularly watching for any defenseman.
It's ok if you're trying to develop a 3rd pair role guy...but let's face it, if you want this guy to be Jack Johnson's partner on the first pairing, the kind of guy you would spend a #2 overall pick with, you want him to play a top role and lots of minutes against men. It's too bad he can't play in the AHL yet. Looks like first pairing on a CHL team. Maybe also trade for a solid veteran defenseman too to mentor him. I don't like to think about how Doughty may have turned out without Rob Scuderi and Willie Mitchell there.

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06-27-2012, 06:47 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by JacketsFanWest View Post
Murray turns 19 before the season starts, so he's practically like a 2011 draft pick. He's played 3 seasons in the WHL and there's not much more he can do there. He's not old enough for the AHL. It's more like a situation with Ryan Johansen last season - that limbo between the CHL/NHL.

Occasionally being scratched isn't always a bad thing for youngsters in the NHL. Watching a game can give them a different perspective and help them sort of reset after a few bad games. But Murray shouldn't be regularly in the press box. He has little to gain from playing in the WHL, but playing is better than regularly watching for any defenseman.
I don't have any problem with an occasional scratch for any NHL player. It's a long season, and rest helps, particularly at the bookends of a career. Regular scratches are another matter. If there's any doubt, better to send him down.

Once again, I so wish we had an AHL option. But then I'm sure many other teams feel the same way.

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06-28-2012, 06:06 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by FlaggerX View Post
I don't have any problem with an occasional scratch for any NHL player. It's a long season, and rest helps, particularly at the bookends of a career. Regular scratches are another matter. If there's any doubt, better to send him down.

Once again, I so wish we had an AHL option. But then I'm sure many other teams feel the same way.
He has to play somewhere. Play him his 9 games and make a real informed decision.

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06-28-2012, 09:05 AM
  #88
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It is interesting, Murray is left defensman, Johnson is left defensman, so maybe it would be better to put Wisniewski to Murray and get right defensman to Johnson, or trade Wiz for right defensive mobile defensman, for example:

Johnson, xxx
Tyutin, Nikitin
Murray, Wisniewski

or let Moore play on righ side like some games in this case

Johnson, Moore
Tyutin, Nikitin
Murray, Wisniewski

or change Murray on the right side

Johnson, Murray
Tyutin, Nikitin
Moore, Wisniewski

or trade Wiz or Tyutin

it is too many possibilities

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06-28-2012, 09:19 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by anteater90 View Post
Fro

I believe you are correct. Under 20 form North America is either NHL or back to your Junior team I do believe.
Or 4 years of CHL Eligibility completed.

I'm a little unsure on this one. He's played 3 full seasons, plus just the playoffs the first year he was in the league.

Not sure if that lets him go to the AHL or not. I think there is a minimum number of games that needs to be played in order for that to count, and don't think 5 playoff games is going to cut it.

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06-29-2012, 02:44 PM
  #90
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Aaron Portzline ‏@Aportzline

‪#CBJ‬ also looking for a depth defenseman - 6-7-8 range - via trade or free agency. If first-round pick Ryan Murray is ready, it's a plus.

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06-29-2012, 02:53 PM
  #91
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That seems like overkill to me. I hope we don't trade Savard but I'm practically expecting it now.

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06-29-2012, 03:01 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by double-shift lassť View Post
aaron portzline ‏@aportzline

‪#cbj‬ also looking for a depth defenseman - 6-7-8 range - via trade or free agency. If first-round pick ryan murray is ready, it's a plus.
FTFW.

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That seems like overkill to me. I hope we don't trade Savard but I'm practically expecting it now.
Hardly. This would be the sort of person we keep on the bench in case of injury, which is something we seriously need so guys like Savard and Moore can get playing time instead of spectator time.

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06-29-2012, 03:18 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
FTFW.



Hardly. This would be the sort of person we keep on the bench in case of injury, which is something we seriously need so guys like Savard and Moore can get playing time instead of spectator time.
I hope you're right, I'm just afraid that one of Moore, Savard, or Murray will be denied playing time, similar to the AJ situation last year. Savard was scratched over AJ quite a bit last year, and I don't want that to happen again. Savard deserves playing time. Or at least in my mind he does!

I hope you're right..

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07-01-2012, 02:49 PM
  #94
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With the Methot trade our defensive pairings now look like:

Johnson-Wiznewski -tons of firepower, tons of risk, excitement assured.

Tyutin-Nikitin If Nikki plays like he did last year should be a solid, consistent pairing

Murray-Moore

It's the kids on the third pair. One hopes Murray is as ready as everyone says he is, and that he can sustain his play over 82 games against men. I fear he'll break down as Moore (who had more time in the minors did) I worry about the relative lack of experience on the third pairing.

But to accentuate the positive this is a Blue line with some size, that can really skate and a couple true offensive defenseman. Everyone should be capable of contributing offensively and making a good first pass when they can't just skate the puck out of trouble. It's also young and the Jackets control everyone's rights for enough time for them to jell. This is the best blue line we've ever had by far.

Now find us some forwards and a goalie I trust.

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07-01-2012, 05:08 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by FlaggerX View Post
With the Methot trade our defensive pairings now look like:

Johnson-Wiznewski -tons of firepower, tons of risk, excitement assured.

Tyutin-Nikitin If Nikki plays like he did last year should be a solid, consistent pairing

Murray-Moore

It's the kids on the third pair. One hopes Murray is as ready as everyone says he is, and that he can sustain his play over 82 games against men. I fear he'll break down as Moore (who had more time in the minors did) I worry about the relative lack of experience on the third pairing.

But to accentuate the positive this is a Blue line with some size, that can really skate and a couple true offensive defenseman. Everyone should be capable of contributing offensively and making a good first pass when they can't just skate the puck out of trouble. It's also young and the Jackets control everyone's rights for enough time for them to jell. This is the best blue line we've ever had by far.

Now find us some forwards and a goalie I trust.
Now:

Aucoin - Moore/Murray/Savard

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07-01-2012, 05:42 PM
  #96
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Now:

Aucoin - Moore/Murray/Savard
I like that a lot better, but I'd rather have a journeyman in the press box then a prospect. I'd rather Moore or Murray were in Sprinfield eating top pairing minutes. Unless the plan is to rotate them both through the press box with Acoin so they don't break down, say 60 games each.

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07-01-2012, 07:08 PM
  #97
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I agree. Murray and Moore need to play a lot. Murray can't go to AHL so he's in RyJo land- What benefit does he get from another year of Juniors? More than sitting in the press box too much. So if each guy plays 54 games, then roughly 28 times Murray & Moore play together. With injuries and such may not be a problem. If each played at least 50 games I think that makes sense.

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07-01-2012, 09:53 PM
  #98
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Or 4 years of CHL Eligibility completed.

I'm a little unsure on this one. He's played 3 full seasons, plus just the playoffs the first year he was in the league.

Not sure if that lets him go to the AHL or not. I think there is a minimum number of games that needs to be played in order for that to count, and don't think 5 playoff games is going to cut it.
I can't find it anywhere, but I have heard the requirement for having officially played a CHL season is 25 games.

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07-08-2012, 02:44 PM
  #99
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Can someone help me with this:

As it stands right now:

Nash Brassard Juice/ Semin
Foligno Ry Jo R J Umberger
Atkinson Letestu Dorsett
Gillies Mackenzie Boll

JJ JWiz
Toots Nik
Moore/ Murray/Savard Aucoin

Bob

True that the top line RW is completely open,, and Nash may or may not be here. Although I think the defense could end up being pretty good - the offensive lines are really
jumbled. Doesn't seem to be much history that you can draw on. Looking forward to the 3rd line actually being Foligno Letestu RJ. If the top six can get some traction this 3rd line
could be good. Put in Vinny Prospal where ever he fits in this jumbled mess.


Last edited by LetsGOJackets!!: 07-08-2012 at 05:05 PM.
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07-08-2012, 03:42 PM
  #100
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I agree, don't sit him, and don't rush him.

18 is rare for a defensman to play a full season in the NHL. Doughty did it, but it was not pretty that first season. Pietrangelo debuted when he was 20, Karlsson 19 when he played 60 games in his first season.

We'll see him at camp, maybe he'll roid up before then.
Then he'd only be able see out of one eye! (obscure reference to a former CBJ blueliner)

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