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Paul Stastny+ for Joe Colborne+

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Old
07-08-2012, 08:18 PM
  #276
KesseltoLupul
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Dion Phaneuf
For
Paul Statsny

Nik Kulemin
Jesse Blacker
For
Brooks Orpik
5th Round Pick

Nazem Kadri
Matthew Lombardi
Ben Scrivens
For
Roberto Luongo

Joffrey Lupul - Paul Statsny - Phil Kessel
James van Riemsdyk - Mikhail Grabovski - Clarke MacArthur
Tyler Bozak - Jay McClement - Matt Frattin
Leo Komarov - Tim Connolly - Mike Brown

JM Liles - Brooks Orpik
Jake Gardiner - Carl Gunnarsson
Cody Franson - Mike Komisarek
Korbinian Holzer/Morgan Rielly

Roberto Luongo
James Reimer

Playoffs.

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Old
07-08-2012, 08:23 PM
  #277
CobraAcesS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KesseltoLupul View Post
Dion Phaneuf
For
Paul Statsny

Nik Kulemin
Jesse Blacker
For
Brooks Orpik
5th Round Pick

Nazem Kadri
Matthew Lombardi
Ben Scrivens
For
Roberto Luongo

Joffrey Lupul - Paul Statsny - Phil Kessel
James van Riemsdyk - Mikhail Grabovski - Clarke MacArthur
Tyler Bozak - Jay McClement - Matt Frattin
Leo Komarov - Tim Connolly - Mike Brown

JM Liles - Brooks Orpik
Jake Gardiner - Carl Gunnarsson
Cody Franson - Mike Komisarek
Korbinian Holzer/Morgan Rielly

Roberto Luongo
James Reimer

Playoffs.
God please shut this thread down.. This is just trolling

No team is getting Stastny without putting up more than they want to. It's a sellers market when it comes to centers regardless of how hard you try to devalue him.


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07-08-2012, 08:25 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
God please shut this thread down.. This is just trolling

No team is getting Stastny without putting up more than they want to. It's a sellers market when it comes to centers regardless of how hard you try to devalue him.

Offering Phaneuf for Stastny is not trolling. If you hate the thread so much or get offended so easily then go away. The vitriol is unnecessary.

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07-08-2012, 08:31 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by NHL33 View Post
Offering Phaneuf for Stastny is not trolling. If you hate the thread so much or get offended so easily then go away. The vitriol is unnecessary.
We need a defenseman not a gigantic forward on the back end. Doesn't exactly fit anyone's needs except TO.

Edit: On top of that Phaneuf plays the right side so he isn't exactly a fit for EJ and that's been clearly stated.. Like I said, TROLLING

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07-08-2012, 09:07 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Forsberg2Sakic View Post
This proposal is comical. Now it is nothing but insults and "I know more than you" crap. I can't believe the mods haven't shut this thread down yet
This. I thought this should have been locked about 6 pages ago already.

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07-08-2012, 09:09 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
We need a defenseman not a gigantic forward on the back end. Doesn't exactly fit anyone's needs except TO.

Edit: On top of that Phaneuf plays the right side so he isn't exactly a fit for EJ and that's been clearly stated.. Like I said, TROLLING
It wasn't trolling, I think KesseltoLupul made an honest attempt to make a fair offer but the problem was that in our eyes it wasn't fair but he at least tried to make a fair offer.

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07-08-2012, 09:09 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
We need a defenseman not a gigantic forward on the back end. Doesn't exactly fit anyone's needs except TO.

Edit: On top of that Phaneuf plays the right side so he isn't exactly a fit for EJ and that's been clearly stated.. Like I said, TROLLING
Some Avs fans have expressed interest in Phaneuf, and I think calling him a gigantic forward is a bit ignorant. The guy was certainly not trolling. At least he is offering something that resembles what Avs fans have asking for (top pairing defensman) Just because Phaneuf does not the play the right side to pair with EJ and because you do not like him is not trolling.

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07-08-2012, 09:13 PM
  #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Some Avs fans have expressed interest in Phaneuf, and I think calling him a gigantic forward is a bit ignorant. The guy was certainly not trolling. At least he is offering something that resembles what Avs fans have asking for (top pairing defensman) Just because Phaneuf does not the play the right side to pair with EJ and because you do not like him is not trolling.
Maybe I was trolling then inadvertently because I'm tired of all the Stastny proposals that don't fit a need for our team.

Fair enough

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Old
07-08-2012, 09:28 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
If you don't want to give up one of Gardiner, Kessel or Reilly you should stop proposing trades for Stastny....
If there was even a snowball's chance in hell of Kessel being dealt to the Avs, it would be Stastny + 1st rounder + prospect going the other way.
And yes, I'm saying that simply out of spite for the clowns on here who think Stastny is worth a king's ransom. It's an even bigger joke than Canucks fans trying to argue that the Leafs have no choice but to trade for Luongo.

And to think other people have the audacity to accuse Leafs fans of overrating their players/prospects. What a joke.

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07-08-2012, 09:30 PM
  #285
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This is what Leaf fans always do...they make a proposals for decent 1-2 centers for their scraps and when it gets declined, they begin to bash the centers claiming that they are declining, overpaid or overrated. I.e: Lecavalier and Stasny -_-

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07-08-2012, 09:32 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by AimForTopCheddar View Post
This is what Leaf fans always do...they make a proposals for decent 1-2 centers for their scraps and when it gets declined, they begin to bash the centers claiming that they are declining, overpaid or overrated. I.e: Lecavalier and Stasny -_-
That pretty much sums it up.

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Old
07-08-2012, 09:39 PM
  #287
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No he is not. But he was on the same pace careerwise as them before he slowed down the last 2 years. He is 26. So there is no reason why he can't bounce back.

I mean Getzlaf had 5 more points in 3 more games last year.

Stastny will obviously not command Getzlaf value. He is not as good. But he still can not be had for minor pieces. And the only pieces in a trade with TOR that make a tiny bit of sense for the Avs would be Kessel, Reilly and Gardiner.

Those pieces are not worth the same and for Kessel we would have to add. But if you are a TOR fan and proposing anything besides them for Stastny and you are not completely mortgaging your future in the process, you probably have made a bad offer which does nothing for the Avs.

And I really would not trade Stastny for Stepan. Take a look at Stastny's career PPG and come back to me. He had 2 bad years. But he is 26. There is no reason why he should not bounce back and we obviously don't trade him for the value his recent production indicates. Same goes for Getzlaf. But there everyone gets it.

With Stastny noone seems to do.
Its okay. We wouldn't trade Stepan for Stastny who makes 1/10th right of what Stastny makes

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Old
07-08-2012, 09:44 PM
  #288
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If there was even a snowball's chance in hell of Kessel being dealt to the Avs, it would be Stastny + 1st rounder + prospect going the other way.
And yes, I'm saying that simply out of spite for the clowns on here who think Stastny is worth a king's ransom. It's an even bigger joke than Canucks fans trying to argue that the Leafs have no choice but to trade for Luongo.

And to think other people have the audacity to accuse Leafs fans of overrating their players/prospects. What a joke.
Aside from how illogical a trade like that would be, no Avs fan has said we wouldn't have to add to get Kessel. We're merely pointing out that downgrading Stastny for a package of mediocre at best assets is counter productive at this point in our rebuild.

We have plenty of top 6 guys but no one that screams top line league-wide. We have plenty of 2nd/3rd pairing defenders, but only one defender that actually deserves to be on the top pairing.

We don't need depth or multiple assets, we need upgrades for what we have now.

The fact that the OP opened up with an assortment of 2nd/3rd line tweeners for our #1 center (regardless of what you may call him) is an example of exactly what pisses us off to no end.

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Old
07-08-2012, 09:49 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
The fact that the OP opened up with an assortment of 2nd/3rd line tweeners for our #1 center (regardless of what you may call him) is an example of exactly what pisses us off to no end.
And somehow that justifies tarring all Leafs fans with the same brush? Not saying you think that, but clearly other Avs fans are delusional enough to believe it's ok.

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07-08-2012, 09:52 PM
  #290
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Ok I just posted this in another thread but it's relevant here to..

The last 41 regular season games Stastny scored 33 points, that's a .805 PPG% (66 pts over 82 games).

In the Worlds? 9 points in 8 games played..

The trend? Better wingers..

In all honesty I don't think he will be traded (if at all) until the deadline next season because he is showing signs of resurgence. At that point we will also know more about how ready Duchene & O'Reilly are as well as potentially having had Stastny's value rise back up.

So yeah.. Avs fans may be asking for overpayment at this point but we have a reason to ask for overpayment and absolutely NO REASON to take anything less. Especially at this point..

So unless a team offers quality not quantity it's not happening and your not getting a favorable response from a single Avs fan unless that happens.

Edit : I also don't know how many times I need to mention this.. Beyond what you think Stastny's value is, it's a sellers market when it comes to top 6 centers. Who else is even remotely available? Getzlaf? Yeah right.. And everyone else has already been moved or signed..


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07-08-2012, 09:57 PM
  #291
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And somehow that justifies tarring all Leafs fans with the same brush? Not saying you think that, but clearly other Avs fans are delusional enough to believe it's ok.
And somehow this justifies you coming in and acting like a lot of your fellow fans don't make absurd trade suggestions, only to turn around and take a dump on the player and fans of the player/team they were looking to acquire?

It happens. A lot. Particularly from a select few franchises.

Avs fans have had to put up with what I'd estimate to be 24+ Stastny to Toronto threads that span tens of pages for almost two years now, just with leafs fans. Excluding other fans.

It's always the same trashy recommendations. I've actually never seen a sensible suggestion from a Leafs fan until a couple posters brought up Phaneuf in here, before it was the same old "Stastny has been sucking for awhile, Phaneuf > Stastny AINEC".

So before you attack us back, take a look in the mirror. If you're not contributing to the thread, what are you doing calling the kettle black by attacking us? Hmmm?



The best and most reasonable offer remains at Phaneuf + change for Stastny, I just don't think it makes logical sense for our club because of the type of player Phaneuf is, not because he isn't good enough or fair value. Most Avs fans actually said that same thing too.

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07-08-2012, 10:02 PM
  #292
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Serious avs vs leafs battle. I'm entertained.

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07-08-2012, 10:03 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Ok I just posted this in another thread but it's relevant here to..

The last 41 regular season games Stastny scored 33 points, that's a .805 PPG% (66 pts over 82 games).

In the Worlds? 9 points in 8 games played..

The trend? Better wingers..

In all honesty I don't think he will be traded (if at all) until the deadline next season because he is showing signs of resurgence. At that point we will also know more about how ready Duchene & O'Reilly are as well as potentially having had Stastny's value rise back up.

So yeah.. Avs fans may be asking for overpayment at this point but we have a reason to ask for overpayment and absolutely NO REASON to take anything less. Especially at this point..

So unless a team offers quality not quantity it's not happening and your not getting a favorable response from a single Avs fan unless that happens.

Edit : I also don't know how many times I need to mention this.. Beyond what you think Stastny's value is, it's a sellers market when it comes to top 6 centers. Who else is even remotely available? Getzlaf? Yeah right.. And everyone else has already been moved or signed..
Not trying to rile you up, honest question. You point out Statsny plays better when he has quality wingers which I believe to be true. What is Avs management like? Will they keep all 3 centers until they can determine who to keep for the future/keep all 3 resulting in so so wingers for everyone, or is there a chance that since Statsny plays much better with quality wingers that they will move either ROR or Duchene now for better winger help now?

Actually asking this, not trying to get Duchene or ROR since if you want wingers Toronto can help, but can't provide the quality you truly want, I was more thinking something like ROR or Duchene for Bobby Ryan type of trade.

Edit: Reading through what I wrote I find it a little confusing, I hope you understand what I'm asking haha.

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07-08-2012, 10:07 PM
  #294
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FWIW I thought Carlyle wanted to try putting Phaneuf on the left side. I think he thought Phaneuf would play better that way.

I see Phaneuf for Stastny as very fair.

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07-08-2012, 10:09 PM
  #295
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FWIW I thought Carlyle wanted to try putting Phaneuf on the left side. I think he thought Phaneuf would play better that way.

I see Phaneuf for Stastny as very fair.
Carlyle does want that to happen, Phaneuf prefers the right though, we will see what happens this coming season.

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07-08-2012, 10:16 PM
  #296
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Not trying to rile you up, honest question. You point out Statsny plays better when he has quality wingers which I believe to be true. What is Avs management like? Will they keep all 3 centers until they can determine who to keep for the future/keep all 3 resulting in so so wingers for everyone, or is there a chance that since Statsny plays much better with quality wingers that they will move either ROR or Duchene now for better winger help now?

Actually asking this, not trying to get Duchene or ROR since if you want wingers Toronto can help, but can't provide the quality you truly want, I was more thinking something like ROR or Duchene for Bobby Ryan type of trade.

Edit: Reading through what I wrote I find it a little confusing, I hope you understand what I'm asking haha.
O'Reilly and Duchene are the golden children essentially. Sherman's first two draft picks and both have potential through the roof. O'Reilly could be our captain (or "co-captain" with Landeskog) and Duchene could be a P/G goal scoring dynamic #1 center.

Stastny is kind of the inbetween of the two players. The elder statesman of the sort that ensures if one is having a rough game/season, we've always got two effective centers to lean on. He can play anywhere on the ice (ES, PP, PK) and get results, he just needs effective wingers to satisfy the points-hungry fans of other teams.

He's always been a ridiculously skilled playmaking center, threading passes that have no business making it to his teammates, but he's only had so-so linemates ever since Stewie went down to injury and was traded. McGinn/Jones finally click with him.

We'll evaluate the roster next season and may, I repeat MAY move him at the deadline if a top pairing defender is located to trade for on the market. Rumors are Sherman will only move him if it is a hockey deal (i.e. EJ trade).

I fully expect us to keep those 3 together for at least another few years if Sherman trusts Staz to re-sign at a lower cap hit and just search for wingers to play with them all over the years until we run into a Staal-like problem. We shift ice time around to all 3 lines enough that none of them get the short end of the stick in that regards.

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07-08-2012, 10:18 PM
  #297
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If there was even a snowball's chance in hell of Kessel being dealt to the Avs, it would be Stastny + 1st rounder + prospect going the other way.
And yes, I'm saying that simply out of spite for the clowns on here who think Stastny is worth a king's ransom. It's an even bigger joke than Canucks fans trying to argue that the Leafs have no choice but to trade for Luongo.

And to think other people have the audacity to accuse Leafs fans of overrating their players/prospects. What a joke.

I never said that Stastny for Kessel would be fair value.

We would have to add.

I just listed the only 3 pieces on your roster which make sense in a trade for the Avs if Stastny goes your way.

I would not trade him straight up for Gardiner either.

So thats that. I just pointed out that unless a proposal is build around one of those 3 pieces, the thread is not worth making because it does not fill the Avs needs.

You could maybe maybe add Phaneuf to that group.

So that are 4 guys that could make sense as a return for the Avs.

Everything else is a hell no unless you completely sell out your future (multiple 1sts) or hand us over your complete cupboard of prospects.

The problem ist that it is always the same proposal.

2nd/3rd liners + depth dman + prospects with the ceiling of 2nd linder or 2nd pairing dman + capdump + mid pick for Stastny.

And this does nothing for the Avs. But somehow noone wants to recognize it...

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07-08-2012, 10:25 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
O'Reilly and Duchene are the golden children essentially. Sherman's first two draft picks and both have potential through the roof. O'Reilly could be our captain (or "co-captain" with Landeskog) and Duchene could be a P/G goal scoring dynamic #1 center.

Stastny is kind of the inbetween of the two players. The elder statesman of the sort that ensures if one is having a rough game/season, we've always got two effective centers to lean on. He can play anywhere on the ice (ES, PP, PK) and get results, he just needs effective wingers to satisfy the points-hungry fans of other teams.

He's always been a ridiculously skilled playmaking center, threading passes that have no business making it to his teammates, but he's only had so-so linemates ever since Stewie went down to injury and was traded. McGinn/Jones finally click with him.

We'll evaluate the roster next season and may, I repeat MAY move him at the deadline if a top pairing defender is located to trade for on the market. Rumors are Sherman will only move him if it is a hockey deal (i.e. EJ trade).

I fully expect us to keep those 3 together for at least another few years if Sherman trusts Staz to re-sign at a lower cap hit and just search for wingers to play with them all over the years until we run into a Staal-like problem. We shift ice time around to all 3 lines enough that none of them get the short end of the stick in that regards.
I was wondering about that a little. I know money can cap hit wasn't the issue in Pitts, but it is still in the back of my mind. But thinking about it now you probably won't run into the cap hit problem since you don't have Malkin + Crosby, you would be able to get some good wingers. I get the feeling though that if you want 6 quality wingers for the 3 centers, you will have to continue to develop great talent like Landeskog. Good luck, Colorado dynasty may be coming back

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07-08-2012, 10:51 PM
  #299
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I was wondering about that a little. I know money can cap hit wasn't the issue in Pitts, but it is still in the back of my mind. But thinking about it now you probably won't run into the cap hit problem since you don't have Malkin + Crosby, you would be able to get some good wingers. I get the feeling though that if you want 6 quality wingers for the 3 centers, you will have to continue to develop great talent like Landeskog. Good luck, Colorado dynasty may be coming back
Pretty much. I think ~16 mil combined will be enough to keep the 3 together long term if everyone plays up to par. Unlike the 17.5 which just Crosby/Malkin make. So unless one wants more playing time or to be "the guy" somewhere, I don't think we'll look to change our depth. Of course, Hishon or someone could prove to be an effective scoring center and force our hand one day.

We've been getting good value out of reclamation projects and complimentary wingers for awhile now. So long as we can develop chemistry on each line, I think we'll be fine without a clearcut #1 winger outside of Landeskog (assuming he develops into that role like he appears to be capable).

The real key is to either develop or acquire a 2nd top pairing defender. That's where the bulk of Avs fans would hesitate, but accept a trade involving one of our three centers, mostly Stastny, somewhat Duchene, but we'd go down fighting if someone tried to move O'Reilly.

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07-08-2012, 10:52 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by Grant123 View Post
I was wondering about that a little. I know money can cap hit wasn't the issue in Pitts, but it is still in the back of my mind. But thinking about it now you probably won't run into the cap hit problem since you don't have Malkin + Crosby, you would be able to get some good wingers. I get the feeling though that if you want 6 quality wingers for the 3 centers, you will have to continue to develop great talent like Landeskog. Good luck, Colorado dynasty may be coming back
(Trading a center for Ryan has been discussed with mixed reviews, personally I would do it but not everyone feels the same way.)

It would be nice to find at least one more top line worthy winger like Landeskog but management (Sherman & CO) seem to be able to find guys like McGinn that have not completely blossomed yet.

Downie even seems to have shown that he has another level between his production during Tampa's playoff run and after he was traded.

So Landeskog, PAP, McGinn, Downie, Jones give us a set of wingers that may not be all stars but at the same time.. Each one is fairly fast (McGinn is the fastest). Four of those 5 average 100+ hits a season (Jones being the exception at around 80.). And all of them can score 20 or more goals.

Edit: I am adding this just because it's interesting.. We have a lot more size and grit than people think now.

Landeskog 6'1" 204lbs 210 hits

McGinn 6'1" 210lbs 159 hits

Jones 6'2" 210lbs 85 hits (72GP)

PAP 6'0" 193lbs 99 hits (80GP)

Downie 5'11" 191 105 hits (75GP)

It's kind of like.. Skill down the middle and more of a blue collar balance between skill and grit down the wings. Which I think is going to be fairly effective..

We may not have the pure size that LA does but our forwards will be/are deeper in terms of pure skill as well as being physical.

If EJ & Varly can develop more and Stastny can return to form our roster actually has the potential to be effective in a similar way.

Kind of a cross between LA & Pitt, Pitt being high skill and LA being more blue collar and physical. I think we will fall somewhere in the middle.

Obviously that's going to take at least another full season of development though to know for sure.


Last edited by CobraAcesS: 07-08-2012 at 11:11 PM.
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