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Hindsight - Sami Salo?

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Old
07-08-2012, 08:16 PM
  #26
Ryker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
I dont really think the Flyers were "all in" on Parise and Suter. I dont think anyone ever expected either of them to come here. It was more of an "if they come here, great, if not, whatever, it doesnt change anything" kind of situation.
No, no, especially not a great amount of people here on the boards posting CapGeek lineups and talking about it as if it's a sure thing for months before the season even ended

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07-08-2012, 08:51 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
No, no, especially not a great amount of people here on the boards posting CapGeek lineups and talking about it as if it's a sure thing for months before the season even ended
You do not know the difference between "hope" and "expectation".

Many Flyers fans hoped we could land Parise or Suter, but again, hardly anyone actually expected us to sign either of them.


And could you please find me one post from a person who thought "it's a sure thing for months before the season even ended". Because I never saw one person say anything even remotely close to that...



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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Injuries are part of the game. Every player has been or is hurt by the end of the season. Timonen probably should have sat out a few more games as he was wearing out (and then for hurt again) in the playoffs.
I dont understand your point.


Salo is almost a guarantee to get injured each year, and he is guaranteed to play games at significantly less than 100%.

What does Timonen have to do with that?

Also, for the record, "hurt" and "injured" are not the same. Timonen is often "hurt"-- Salo is often "injured".

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07-08-2012, 09:02 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
I dont understand your point.


Salo is almost a guarantee to get injured each year, and he is guaranteed to play games at significantly less than 100%.

What does Timonen have to do with that?

Also, for the record, "hurt" and "injured" are not the same. Timonen is often "hurt"-- Salo is often "injured".
You don't think guys played injured the later it gets into the season? Being injured is not exclusive to missing games.

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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
There is a big difference between signing a 7th dman or 13th forward with the expectation of them not playing every night and signing a regular guy who will only play at best 80% of the season. Come on.
Every team routinely has a few players who miss a quarter of the season (not always the same players), and know to plan to have to use 8 or 9 or 10 defensemen. The Flyers still need to figure out which other defenseman besides Timonen can run a power play, given what would have been Salo's role on the team and is rather effective at it, it would have been a risk worth taking. I wouldn't have given him a 2nd year though.

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07-08-2012, 09:25 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
You don't think guys played injured the later it gets into the season? Being injured is not exclusive to missing games.
Timonen has averaged 79 GP per season since the lockout.

Salo has averaged 59 GP (64 if you remove 2011) per season since the lockout.


Again, I'm not sure what your point is here. I wouldnt mind having the guy, but he misses significant time each year, and his play deteriorates due to his accumulated injuries.

Timonen is just getting old and his play slows down due to fatigue. If he were truly playing through injury, he would have missed more than 6 games in the past 3 years.

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07-08-2012, 10:25 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by hockeyfeak7 View Post
Timonen has averaged 79 GP per season since the lockout.

Salo has averaged 59 GP (64 if you remove 2011) per season since the lockout.


Again, I'm not sure what your point is here. I wouldnt mind having the guy, but he misses significant time each year, and his play deteriorates due to his accumulated injuries.
Simply point wise, he hasn't not really had any real kind of drop off other than when defense started to retake control of the league in general past the first two years of the lockout, and the advanced numbers don't show a significant drop off in play year-to-year, only that he's been spotted more conservatively with the Canucks this past year (which isn't at all bizarre for the a player of his age in his role). With Schenn, Coburn, Grossman and Meszaros around to take tougher assignments, he would have fit in just fine, and the injury risk would have been worth it because Gustafsson is available to hopefully prove that he's ready to play full-time.

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Originally Posted by hockeyfeak7 View Post
Timonen is just getting old and his play slows down due to fatigue. If he were truly playing through injury, he would have missed more than 6 games in the past 3 years.
Are you sure about that? Or does he just refuse to not play? Hockey players play all the time when they shouldn't be.

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07-08-2012, 10:29 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Simply point wise, he hasn't not really had any real kind of drop off other than when defense started to retake control of the league in general past the first two years of the lockout, and the advanced numbers don't show a significant drop off in play year-to-year, only that he's been spotted more conservatively with the Canucks this past year (which isn't at all bizarre for the a player of his age in his role). With Schenn, Coburn, Grossman and Meszaros around to take tougher assignments, he would have fit in just fine, and the injury risk would have been worth it because Gustafsson is available to hopefully prove that he's ready to play full-time.
No arguments here from me. I think he would have been useful player in a 4/5 role.

I was just arguing the notion that he's not an injury waiting to happen and that 60ish games per year isnt a sign of severe injury issues.

Quote:
Are you sure about that? Or does he just refuse to not play? Hockey players play all the time when they shouldn't be.
That's very much true. But if Timonen were severely injured at any point, he would have missed more time than he has.

It's a fact that Timonen has not had any serious injury issues as a Flyer. On the contrary, Salo has had serious injuries year after year. There's a significant difference there, imo.

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Old
07-09-2012, 01:04 AM
  #32
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Holmgren left the defence worst than last year.
This is unacceptable, poor asset management on his part.

I'm expecting a trade come deadline - more 1st picks out the door for some dman.

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07-09-2012, 06:57 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Every team routinely has a few players who miss a quarter of the season (not always the same players), and know to plan to have to use 8 or 9 or 10 defensemen. The Flyers still need to figure out which other defenseman besides Timonen can run a power play, given what would have been Salo's role on the team and is rather effective at it, it would have been a risk worth taking. I wouldn't have given him a 2nd year though.
Yes that is true. No one is saying injuries don't happen. But typically guys who are as injury prone as Sami Salo come with bigger risks. With Sami Salo, it is a given that he will be injured and miss about 20 games. Yes it is possible for him to play a full season, but his injury history suggests otherwise. With the injury problems this team has had on defense in recent years, $2 million to a guy who we know is going to play 60-65 at his best is not a smart move.

I've seen some crazy stuff around here, but never someone trying to argue something like this.

I'm not really sure what point you were trying to prove, but it seems in trying to make me look stupid you have done nothing more than make yourself look stupid.

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Old
07-09-2012, 07:32 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by number72 View Post
Holmgren left the defence worst than last year.
This is unacceptable, poor asset management on his part.

I'm expecting a trade come deadline - more 1st picks out the door for some dman.
Replacing Carle with Luke Schenn is not exactly a downgrade. Probably scoring wise but definitely not when it comes to playing defense and shutting down the opponents.

Gervais for Kubina is even at least considering how Kubina has regressed in the last 1-2 seasons.

It's not like Homer didn't try to get a replacement for Pronger but what is he supposed to do? .... if UFAs like Suter don't want to play for the Flyers and the asking price for signed players fitting this shoe starts with Schenn,Couturier + multiple firsts.

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