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Old
07-08-2012, 10:23 PM
  #126
19NYSports91
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Originally Posted by Dr Swag View Post
No I'm just not sippin the kool-aid or buying into the hype that some of you are falsely doing.
I bet you haven't even watched any of those guys play more than 10 games combined.

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07-08-2012, 10:24 PM
  #127
AndThereGoesGrabner
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Well, I'm just gonna say that Tavares is a softie! No way he'll have great success! All a team has to do is hit him and he'll be scared!

Do you realize how silly this sounds?
I thought we are talking about Henriques B!tch McDonagh, not JT getting love tapped by horseface Staal!

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07-08-2012, 10:29 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by 19NYSports91 View Post
Please go into the stats, they're very comparable. I don't know if you know this, but Hamonic played more games than McDonagh in 2010-2011 and hes a year younger. You also have to factor in who their partners are. Hamonic was paired with Amac(hes good but hes no where near as good as Girardi). Hamonic was a +6 on a very bad defensively team. Streit was a -27.
+/- isn't really a good indicator of determining the defensive prowess of a player as it doesn't take account of line matching and defensive zone starts.

http://the6thsens.com/PlayerUsageCharts2011-12.pdf

use ctrl + f, search McDonagh and you'll look at his outstanding advanced statistic numbers. Playing against the best players in the league and having a positive possession rating on top of it. Not to mention the praise he gets by former players and broadcasters. Leetch said his skating is one of the best he's ever seen and he brings size. To Hamonic's record, he also did play against other top lines, but didn't bring the success possession numbers wise, good player, but not McDonagh-lite.

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07-08-2012, 10:30 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by AndThereGoesGrabner View Post
Biron played what, 10-12 games???
21 games actually.

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07-08-2012, 10:30 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by 19NYSports91 View Post
A top 4 defensive defenseman dont have a -21
Zdeno Chara, 06-07: -21

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07-08-2012, 10:32 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by AndThereGoesGrabner View Post
I thought we are talking about Henriques B!tch McDonagh, not JT getting love tapped by horseface Staal!
Just pointing out that JT got pwned no doubt, he needs to man up or teams will end up intimidating him on the ice. When Staal just moves his shoulder and JT goes flying, you know he has problems. Need to bubblewrap him to the rink.

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07-08-2012, 10:32 PM
  #132
19NYSports91
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
+/- isn't really a good indicator of determining the defensive prowess of a player as it doesn't take account of line matching and defensive zone starts.

http://the6thsens.com/PlayerUsageCharts2011-12.pdf

use ctrl + f, search McDonagh and you'll look at his outstanding advanced statistic numbers. Playing against the best players in the league and having a positive possession rating on top of it. Not to mention the praise he gets by former players and broadcasters. Leetch said his skating is one of the best he's ever seen and he brings size. To Hamonic's record, he also did play against other top lines, but didn't bring the success possession numbers wise, good player, but not McDonagh-lite.
Again who does McDonagh play with and who does Hamonic play with? The Rangers forwards also play MUCH BETTER DEFENSIVELY than the Isles.

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07-08-2012, 10:33 PM
  #133
AndThereGoesGrabner
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
+/- isn't really a good indicator of determining the defensive prowess of a player as it doesn't take account of line matching and defensive zone starts.

http://the6thsens.com/PlayerUsageCharts2011-12.pdf

use ctrl + f, search McDonagh and you'll look at his outstanding advanced statistic numbers. Playing against the best players in the league and having a positive possession rating on top of it. Not to mention the praise he gets by former players and broadcasters. Leetch said his skating is one of the best he's ever seen and he brings size. To Hamonic's record, he also did play against other top lines, but didn't bring the success possession numbers wise, good player, but not McDonagh-lite.
Hamonic would look like Scott Stevens in front of Lundqvist. I wonder what would McDonagh look like in front of a one legged Dipietro, Al Montoya, an aging Nabokov, and bunch of rookie goalies? He'd look like Hamonic, but much softer!!

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07-08-2012, 10:34 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by 19NYSports91 View Post
Again who does McDonagh play with and who does Hamonic play with? The Rangers forwards also play MUCH BETTER DEFENSIVELY than the Isles.
This doesn't really support why Hamonic is better than McDonagh. A good reason why Girardi had a career year was because he was put on a pairing with defensively responsible McDonagh. I also remember Isles fans last offseason saying MacDonald was much better than Girardi.

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07-08-2012, 10:34 PM
  #135
AndThereGoesGrabner
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Just pointing out that JT got pwned no doubt, he needs to man up or teams will end up intimidating him on the ice. When Staal just moves his shoulder and JT goes flying, you know he has problems. Need to bubblewrap him to the rink.
JT, does not get intimidated! His 81 points this season say so!

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07-08-2012, 10:35 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by AndThereGoesGrabner View Post
Hamonic would look like Scott Stevens in front of Lundqvist. I wonder what would McDonagh look like in front of a one legged Dipietro, Al Montoya, an aging Nabokov, and bunch of rookie goalies? He'd look like Hamonic, but much softer!!
This is a ridiculous argument, the statistics I provided doesn't take account of the goalies behind them

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07-08-2012, 10:36 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by AndThereGoesGrabner View Post
JT, does not get intimidated! His 81 points this season say so!
IDK man, he is still butter soft, when a love tap like that gets you down you know that's not a good sign. Big reason why Isles were bottom 5.

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07-08-2012, 10:40 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
IDK man, he is still butter soft, when a love tap like that gets you down you know that's not a good sign. Big reason why Isles were bottom 5.
Apparently, you didn't see JT that often this past season. The Isles were bottom 5 because of their goalie problems & no real veteran support for the kids. Its easy to buy player after player like the Raggies do & look good. Put Richards & Gaborik with JT & I bet you they are a playoff team. Unfortunaely, the Isles have no money to burn!

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07-08-2012, 10:41 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
This doesn't really support why Hamonic is better than McDonagh. A good reason why Girardi had a career year was because he was put on a pairing with defensively responsible McDonagh. I also remember Isles fans last offseason saying MacDonald was much better than Girardi.
No way would anyone say MacDonald is better than Girardi.

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07-08-2012, 10:42 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by AndThereGoesGrabner View Post
Apparently, you didn't see JT that often this past season. The Isles were bottom 5 because of their goalie problems & no real veteran support for the kids. Its easy to buy player after player like the Raggies do & look good. Put Richards & Gaborik with JT & I bet you they are a playoff team. Unfortunaely, the Isles have no money to burn!
No it's his fault. All you have to do is scare JT and the rest of the team's morale will be down since their best player is a scaredy cat! Boy needs to toughen up for Isles to turn it around.

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07-08-2012, 10:44 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
No it's his fault. All you have to do is scare JT and the rest of the team's morale will be down since their best player is a scaredy cat! Boy needs to toughen up for Isles to turn it around.
Yup, JT needs to toughen up!

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07-08-2012, 10:46 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
This doesn't really support why Hamonic is better than McDonagh. A good reason why Girardi had a career year was because he was put on a pairing with defensively responsible McDonagh. I also remember Isles fans last offseason saying MacDonald was much better than Girardi.
Sure it does, no one knows how well Hamonic would do if he was in the position McDonagh was in. You think McDonagh would be putting up similar stats if he was on the Isles? I never said Hamonic was better than McDonagh, I said its closer than you think.

Hamonic(21)- In 73 games, 170 hits, 157 blocked shots, 24 points, +6
McDonagh(22- In 82 games, 157 hits, 182 blocked shots, 32 points, +25

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07-08-2012, 10:46 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by SLAPSHOT723 View Post
No way would anyone say MacDonald is better than Girardi.
Gimme one sec to find thread, I think you were the one who said it and a Ranger fan backed you up.

Edit: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1&postcount=32

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I guess you don't realize how good Poulin is going to be and how MacDonald would be your #2 defenseman behind Staal.
Good thing i remembered the exact quote. lol

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07-08-2012, 10:52 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by AndThereGoesGrabner View Post
Yup, JT needs to toughen up!
Yes, needs to train like his boy Trevor Gillies.


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07-08-2012, 10:54 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by 19NYSports91 View Post
Sure it does, no one knows how well Hamonic would do if he was in the position McDonagh was in. You think McDonagh would be putting up similar stats if he was on the Isles? I never said Hamonic was better than McDonagh, I said its closer than you think.

Hamonic(21)- In 73 games, 170 hits, 157 blocked shots, 24 points, +6
McDonagh(22- In 82 games, 157 hits, 182 blocked shots, 32 points, +25
Hits, blocked shots doesn't tell anything about a player's defensive capabilities. You can be great by stickchecking and forcing weak opportunities against or by simply holding onto the puck while rushing up the ice as it prevents opponents from getting scoring chances on you. Which is why I look at possession numbers and QOC.

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07-08-2012, 10:56 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by mitchy22 View Post
I had a dream about this happening. Jay Bouwmeester isn't exactly the "imposing force" that the Islanders could really use in their top-4.

He did give the puck away more in those listed numbers above.

Are we trying to pretend that Jay Bouwmeester is a physical force out there by displaying the number of hits he has? Yes, J-Bo finishes some checks. No, he doesn't scare anybody racing down the wing.

J-Bo is a positionally sound defender who doesn't use his entire frame to its full advantage. He's a great skater who rounded out his game and had to give up some of the offense that came with rushing up the ice early in his career. He's sound enough on the PK and should be better on the PP except that he doesn't get shots to the net like the other two guys you mentioned.

Let's not make him into more than he is. He's a good player that is paid a lot of money that never quite became the really great player his salary demands.

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Mitch
My intention was not to make him look better than he is with those statistics, but rather put in perspective that he in fact is not as soft or afraid of contact as everyone makes him out to be. Of course he is not a bonecrusher out there, but he does take the body for the most part.

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07-08-2012, 10:57 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Hits, blocked shots doesn't tell anything about a player's defensive capabilities. You can be great by stickchecking and forcing weak opportunities against or by simply holding onto the puck while rushing up the ice as it prevents opponents from getting scoring chances on you. Which is why I look at possession numbers and QOC.
I know lol, I was trying to prove my argument, but its very difficult to do unless you watch him play! I'm technically going by what I watched from both players. I'm assuming you dont watch Hamonic play and only go by what the websites say idk. Btw that website you posted didnt really prove anything. I probably have seen McDonagh play a lot more games than you have seen Hamonic play.

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07-08-2012, 11:03 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by 19NYSports91 View Post
I know lol, I was trying to prove my argument, but its very difficult to do unless you watch him play! I'm technically going by what I watched from both players. I'm assuming you dont watch Hamonic play and only go by what the websites say idk. Btw that website you posted didnt really prove anything. I probably have seen McDonagh play a lot more games than you have seen Hamonic play.
Please explain? The website is created by Sens fans who take account into pure advanced stats.

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07-08-2012, 11:05 PM
  #149
19NYSports91
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Please explain? The website is created by Sens fans who take account into pure advanced stats.
Doesnt really give too much info about either player. How many games have you seen Hamonic play?

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07-08-2012, 11:07 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by 19NYSports91 View Post
Doesnt really give too much info about either player. How many games have you seen Hamonic play?
Which is why you look into context of the player's situation, ie quality of teammates, quality of competition, possession, etc.

Another good website is behindthenet.ca

It's irrelevant on the # of games I've seen of Hamonic. I know he's a good young defenseman already. I just think McDonagh is something special.

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