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Development Camp 2012 July 6th-10th

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07-08-2012, 02:21 PM
  #126
King'sPawn
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Kurtis MacDermid, camp invitee, was most impressive among defensemen today. Think Kings should consider signing.

Forbort looked unimpressive.

Neither goalie looked great, but Gibson looked better. Will post more later.


Last edited by King'sPawn: 07-08-2012 at 02:48 PM.
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07-08-2012, 03:19 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
I prefer Jones over all three.
I like Jones as well, but I consider Zaktoff to be on par with him. I think they'll both be NHL netminders one day. I'm greedy when it comes to prospects, I hate losing any of them...but I always really liked Zaktoff in particular.

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Forbort looked unimpressive.
Every time I watch him play he looks that way. He reminds me of one of those typical prospects that get overrated because of their size. Other than his height, he seems to be average in almost every way.

Of course I could be totally wrong, I'm not an expert by any means, but I'm not expecting much from Derek. Still a little butt hurt we didn't get Etem.

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07-08-2012, 03:34 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
I like Jones as well, but I consider Zaktoff to be on par with him. I think they'll both be NHL netminders one day. I'm greedy when it comes to prospects, I hate losing any of them...but I always really liked Zaktoff in particular.


Every time I watch him play he looks that way. He reminds me of one of those typical prospects that get overrated because of their size. Other than his height, he seems to be average in almost every way.

Of course I could be totally wrong, I'm not an expert by any means, but I'm not expecting much from Derek. Still a little butt hurt we didn't get Etem.
I can understand that sense. The thing is, he does have very good vision, but his puck skills are below par.

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07-08-2012, 03:34 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
I like Jones as well, but I consider Zaktoff to be on par with him. I think they'll both be NHL netminders one day. I'm greedy when it comes to prospects, I hate losing any of them...but I always really liked Zaktoff in particular.


Every time I watch him play he looks that way. He reminds me of one of those typical prospects that get overrated because of their size. Other than his height, he seems to be average in almost every way.

Of course I could be totally wrong, I'm not an expert by any means, but I'm not expecting much from Derek. Still a little butt hurt we didn't get Etem.

What exactly dont you like about Forbort? I've seen him many times as well and have always thought he is right on track with his development....

It seems that people assume that all 1st round picks need to be flashy and dazzle, but that's not his game....He will never be a 50 point player in the NHL, but i fully expect him to be a very solid #3 or #4 guy in the league who plays a good 2-way game

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07-08-2012, 03:36 PM
  #130
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Also, Christopher Gibson is still EXTREMELY raw.....he has a while to go before he is close to ready for the pro ranks, but from what i have seen, he has the natural gifts to be a very good goalie one day....

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07-08-2012, 07:05 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Jwm1986 View Post
What exactly dont you like about Forbort? I've seen him many times as well and have always thought he is right on track with his development....

It seems that people assume that all 1st round picks need to be flashy and dazzle, but that's not his game....He will never be a 50 point player in the NHL, but i fully expect him to be a very solid #3 or #4 guy in the league who plays a good 2-way game
And you're assuming we are saying he's not impressive because he doesn't dazzle.

Anyway, neither Vey nor Ebert are in the Sunday afternoon sessions.

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07-08-2012, 07:45 PM
  #132
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Miller hurt after nasty collision with another player (Shore?) at the end of the scrimmage.

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07-08-2012, 09:17 PM
  #133
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Day three began with the forwards practicing. Vey did not participate; I imagine he's still hurt. It began with the forwards skating in circles and sprinting at the whistle. Afterwards, they did the stickhandling drills like the day before, carrying the puck from goal line to goal line. Finally, they did a series of drills where they incorporated their stickhandling and entered the attacking zone. First they entered from their offwing, then after a few times around they entered from their natural wing. Finally, to give them a visual of the path they should take, there were a series of tires layed down at a slant towards the net, and the players had to enter again from the off-wing to take a shot. The last drill was more of a fun exercise, having a little 3-on-3 game. I didn't keep track of the teams, but here's the scoring summary (awarding 1 assist when applicable/when I see it):

Czarnik, Wrist shot (Schumacher)
Pearson, one timer (Andreoff)
O'Neill, Rebound (Andreoff)
Lowry, Rebound (Goodrow)
Lowry, wrist (Mersch)
Weal, backhand
Weal, backhand
Prokhorkin, one timer (Hyka)

Overall, there were a few players who were more dangerous than others. Keep in mind that the shots practiced were more geared towards incorporating the stickhandling drills earlier, so there wasn't much creativity allowed here. Czarnik was one of the more consistently dangerous snipers among the group. He would be able to snipe it wherever an opening was available. Toffoli was quite impressive a couple times as well. Mersch, Schumacher, and Lowry also had a couple beautiful shots. One of the more amusing players was Nick Shore; he was consistently missing the net or shooting right into the goalie. He finally sniped one that hit the back crossbar, and he gave himself a mock fist pump/cheer when he skated back into the group. Weal, while he scored a couple backhanders in the scrimmage less than 30 seconds apart, does not boast an NHL quality shot. Andreoff has some deceptive talents that he's advertising now; I hadn't seen that before. Lowry played with a lot of energy, and landed a couple nice shots as well.

The least effective players on the breakaway were: Dowd, Weal, Goodrow, Hyka, O'Neill. The most effective were Czarnik, Toffoli, Schumacher. Pearson was getting some direction on how to follow through with his shot. Prokhorkin had the dubious distinction of being the only player to hit a tire with one of his shots. This concluded the forwards session. Darryl Evans spent some time with five players afterwards, though. He put a harness on Toffoli and Andreoff, having them take turns pulling him to the blueline and back. He had Mersch, Shore, and Pearson work on their edges by having them skate in semi-circles down the ice on one leg - switching legs after each semi-circle.

Eventually the defensemen and goalies came out for their session. Once again the goalies practiced making stops with lateral movements and getting set with cross ice passes for the entire session. The defense's first drill involved recovering the puck and making a breakout pass after a dump in. They built on this drill a little bit later: the player who received the breakout pass had to skate to center ice, then had to turn around and have a 1-on-1 with the player who made the breakout pass... basically, they incorporated gap control after making the pass. This series of drills took up half the session. The second half of the session was focused on two defensemen at a time practicing skating around the defensive zone, passing back and forth to each other to buy time, before executing a breakout pass at the whistle.

This is when I saw a side of Kurtis MacDermid I didn't see yesterday. He looked very poised and like an NHL defenseman in the way he shifted his weight and changed directions, and executed tape-to-tape passes back and forth. There was nothing flashy about the way he played, but it was just borderline perfect, especially for a guy who only played 9 games in the OHL last year. Roach was on the other end of the spectrum. His skating was clunky and sloppy. They actually did the edge drills with him after the session, the same way Darryl worked with Mersch, Shore, and Pearson. Forbort was another player who did not impress me much. He looked... heavy on his skates - not very graceful. And once again, when he had to make simple, unpressured passes to his partner in the last drill, he would lose control of the puck and have it roll off his stick. Gravel seemed to struggle a bit with the gap control part of the session; at one point he gave the other player too much room to skate in, the next time out he got too close too soon and almost had the player skate around him. Miller and Deslauriers looked decent for the day, but nothing that really stood out to me. McIvor seems to be a pretty reliable defenseman; he stood up the players exceptionally well.

As for the goalies... well, it was a role reversal today from yesterday. Gibson looked a lot better in terms of his timing and his ability to stop shots. Both him and Berube were constantly lectured about how they were out of form when they had to make stops with cross-ice one timers. Berube's timing was the same as yesterday, but he was just terrible during the session. I started to wonder if there were holes in his gear and jersey, because shots just kept going through him.

Finally, we had the combined afternoon session. They did the standard stickhandling across the length of the ice drill. They also did the drill yesterday where Vey got hurt; players of the opposing color stood still on the ice and the other team had to take turns passing to each other around the players. Once again, there was a collision on the ice; nobody got hurt, but I'm starting to question how worthwhile this drill is. The next drill involved the key drill from each session: the puck would be dumped in, a defenseman would recover, he'd pass it to a forward, who had to pass it by a series of tires and pylons to another forward, who had to skate down the length of the ice and shoot it on net. The last drill before the scrimmage was a simple puck protection drill. Players were split into four groups, and each group of players had to form a ring around one of the face-off circles... one player from each group would then get in the middle of the ring with a puck. Players forming the ring would take turns skating at the player, who would have to react by turning his body and keeping his body between the attacking player and the puck. It was a simple puck protection drill.

Toffoli and Czarnik once again were the standouts in the shooting drills, and Andreoff was looking more confident with the puck as well. The defensemen didn't have a chance to do much in these sessions, so I won't comment. The puck protection drill was pretty fast, so I won't try to remark on who did the best there, especially with the groups spread out.

They finally had a break and resurfaced the ice, giving the players a breather. With the players a bit more rested and the ice resurfaced, the scrimmage was a lot more fun to watch (and probably more fun to play). It changed up from having 4-on-4 play to 5-on-5. There was only one goal scored this time, and it was by Hyka. He skated it from end to end along the boards, cut to the slot, and backhanded it through Gibson. Berube stopped a nice scoring play by Toffoli, who tipped a shot from the point. Another time MacDermid just missed the top corner by inches. There was a very dangerous collision between Miller and another player (Shore?) and it looked like Miller took a skate to the mouth. If not for the after-effect, it would have been a beautiful hip check by Miller.

Because of the uneven number of players, the lines aren't perfect, but here's how they began, at least.

White:
Toffoli - Czarnik - Deslauriers - Forbort
Pearson - Shore - Miller - Weal
O'Neill - Goodrow - Prokhorkin - Alternate
Gibson

Black:
Andreoff - Hyka - Ladue - Gravel
Mersch - Lowry - McIvor - Roach
Schumacher - Shore - Dowd - Alternate
Berube

Some standouts...

Hyka, with the lone goal, obviously stood out. What was so impressive was just how he drove to the net purposefully and courageously. His goal wasn't a breakaway, he simply fought through the opposition to score the goal.

Mersch was a lot better today than yesterday. He protected the puck along the boards very well, and after drawing attention to himself, fed the puck to Roach on the point who had a beautiful scoring chance.

Toffoli was strong on both ends of the ice. He had that golden opportunity when he tipped the shot from the point on net. However, he also got back and stopped a goledn opportunity, when Andreoff got too cute on a 2-on-1 and he broke up the pass. Speaking of which...

Andreoff was everywhere. He looked like Clifford during his one year at the development camp, where the puck just kept finding him, and he kept trying to make plays. He got too cute on a 2-on-1, where he tried to do a spin-o-rama backhander to the slot, but he also put himself in that position to get the 2-on-1... so I have to give him credit for that.

Weal was buzzing around as always. He had a couple nice steals, as well as Pearson, where they both smartly blocked the lanes of the opposition.

Miller passed up a golden opportunity to shoot, when he was alone and off to Berube's right... he passed instead. He also laid out Shore with a beautiful hipcheck that ended up hurting him more than anyone else. So, credit him for good intentions, but he had a rough night that was capped off by injury.

That's about all who stood out to me. I am going to the drills tomorrow morning, but have to go home after that, and will miss the afternoon session. I'm hoping someone else can pick up where I leave off and keep everyone informed. I'll hope to have an overall report by Tuesday. Hope you enjoy!

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07-08-2012, 09:29 PM
  #134
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Thanks for all the updates, esspecially King'sPawn. Very interesting stuff.

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07-08-2012, 11:08 PM
  #135
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great job kp.. and it was good to see you again,

i'll try to take over from where you left off.. i'll be there monday and tuesday.

-hyka's goal was pretty dang amazing.
-czarnik was great again with speed and accuracy with the shots.
-weal with a couple of nice steals again... this guy just has a knack for causing turnovers
-forbort was pretty invisible
-im starting to really like gravel.
-andreoff is a real deal prospect.. out of the forwards in this group, i'm going to bet andreoff is the first one to step into an nhl game.
-also really like pearson

more to come

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07-08-2012, 11:16 PM
  #136
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I'll be there tomorrow as well starting at about 3:15. If you see a kid that's about 5"4 wearing a home jersey/kings hat, come say hello.

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07-09-2012, 12:21 AM
  #137
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So there is a big break between the defenseman and when the group practices?

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07-09-2012, 01:19 AM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
Every time I watch him play he looks that way. He reminds me of one of those typical prospects that get overrated because of their size. Other than his height, he seems to be average in almost every way.

Of course I could be totally wrong, I'm not an expert by any means, but I'm not expecting much from Derek. Still a little butt hurt we didn't get Etem.
I feel the exact same way, 100%. I thought that when we traded up, it was to select Etem. Ugh, what a disappointment, oh well, at least we won the cup lol

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07-09-2012, 01:26 AM
  #139
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I think sometimes people put too much stock into these development camps, as the title suggests, its for development and a mini-training camp that teaches these kids something to pick up on. They're not necessarily made to launch them straight into the NHL. I don't think anyone would have penciled in the likes of Simmonds, Clifford, King, Nolan, Lewis, Martinez, etc. into NHL spots based on how they performed at these camps. There have also been those in the past who stood out at these camps that amounted into nothing (Greg Hogeboom, Ned Lukacevic, Brady Murray are a couple of examples).

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07-09-2012, 03:20 AM
  #140
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Whats prokhorkin like?

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07-09-2012, 03:43 AM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I think sometimes people put too much stock into these development camps, as the title suggests, its for development and a mini-training camp that teaches these kids something to pick up on. They're not necessarily made to launch them straight into the NHL. I don't think anyone would have penciled in the likes of Simmonds, Clifford, King, Nolan, Lewis, Martinez, etc. into NHL spots based on how they performed at these camps. There have also been those in the past who stood out at these camps that amounted into nothing (Greg Hogeboom, Ned Lukacevic, Brady Murray are a couple of examples).
Everyone had a hard on for Petr Kanko a couple years back too.

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07-09-2012, 03:44 AM
  #142
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I feel the exact same way, 100%. I thought that when we traded up, it was to select Etem. Ugh, what a disappointment, oh well, at least we won the cup lol
I like Forbort and he was the BPA at that point in the draft.

I know people here who see him at camp or whatever say he's not impressive or stands out but really he's not that type of d-man. Usually it's better when you don't notice them because that means they're making mistakes.

I'll just take my friends word who has season tickets to the Sioux and that Forbort is a solid d-man and they're top defenseman now that Blood is off to the pros.

Also he was projected as a project type prospect when he was drafted, very raw and would need some time to develop into a good top 4 two-way defenseman, I think he's right on track in his development.

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07-09-2012, 04:20 AM
  #143
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Everyone had a hard on for Petr Kanko a couple years back too.
Ah yes, how can I forget about the legend of Petr Kanko and his impressive NHL debut against the Ducks. A future NHL pest he was not.

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07-09-2012, 10:20 AM
  #144
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Whats prokhorkin like?
He has skill, but he hasn't stood out. Unfortunately, that will be misconstrued on this board, because anything that's not positive implies that he's a bust. He's not. But little has been written on him, like most of these players, because the few people there are watching between 10-24 players at once. You either lose a lot focusing on one player, or you make mental notes on players who stood out, good or bad.

Prokhorkin has skills, but there's little more I can honestly write about him because he hasn't really been part of that stand out group.

With that said, I just wanted to have a general reply to some of the responses:

As for Forbort, to begin with, I never called him a bust. Neither has losingsand. So, please don't pretend that word has been used by people who actually watched this week.

And second of all, please don't pretend he has been called unimpressive because he isn't flashy. He has had the most blatant mishandling of pucks and errant passes, even with little pressure on him. If you read the write-ups, you would see that. Note how nobody else has been singled out like this, because nobody else has been so visible with it.

And I understand this is development camp. It's for the players to get better, which is another reason why I avoid making definitive, damning statements against players. It's also why I don't use words like "soft," because minimal contact is used.

So please keep all that in mind. If you watch them yourself and disagree, cool. If you'd rather pay attention to what others say, cool. But don't derail the thread by putting words in our mouths or making up criteria for our observations.

This is the one time of year the Kings prospects play in one location. Take it for what it's worth.

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07-09-2012, 11:07 AM
  #145
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Ebert on the ice this morning

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07-09-2012, 02:25 PM
  #146
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No Vey today for the forward drills. This session had the most entertaining and well timed drill to end the session.

The day featured puck protection and puck handling. So to close it out they had both nets in one zone, width of the ice apart.. However, only 3 players went out 30 seconds at a time, and the forwards had a 1-on-1-on-1 session, where they had to protect the puck from the other two guys trying to get the puck themselves, and shoot at one of the nets.

Pearson and Shore had the prettiest goals of the bunch. Once I get home I'll post all the goal scorers.

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07-09-2012, 02:49 PM
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King'sPawn View Post
The day featured puck protection and puck handling. So to close it out they had both nets in one zone, width of the ice apart.. However, only 3 players went out 30 seconds at a time, and the forwards had a 1-on-1-on-1 session, where they had to protect the puck from the other two guys trying to get the puck themselves, and shoot at one of the nets.
Love this drill! It's just flat out fun to be a part of it and the skills it works are fantastic. Thanks for the updates KP, I have some questions regarding soem of the guys but I'll wait until later when I get home from work to ask them.

I'll just edit this since no one has commented since I did earlier... So just quick questions and a few comments on guys;

You said Weal was having trouble with the stickhandling drills and seemed slower. Is this just with the puck or is his overall spped seem to be slowed by the extra weight? I'd always pictured his way into the NHL as a PK specialist that excels at the defensive side of the game, his hockey IQ jsut seems off the charts when it comes to being in the right place at the right time.

Regarding Toffoli when you say he was one of the better players in the stickhandling drill, does that mean speed with the puck on his stick, and how is his overall skating and top speed looking?

How does Deslauriers look in the drills when he is under pressure or in the drills where the d-men are pressured? He always seems so impressive in these and then he had such a terrible season in Manch this year. Wondering and worried if it may be a case of all the tools, just no tool box.

MacDermid is intriguing since I'd never heard his name before this camp and no next to nothing about him. Seems to have good size, but is he eligible to sign a contract like Jones and Roach or is he too young?

Good to hear Andreoff appears to be coming along well, always liked his game. Bound for the AHL this year?

Do you think Czarnik has a legit shot as a prospect still or is he standing out more since he is the only 1990 born in the camp?

Thanks again for the reports everyone.


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07-09-2012, 11:31 PM
  #148
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Got there just for the group practice, and there were a few things that stood out to me.

-Hyka has very little fear right now for a guy his size, saw him 2 times drop his shoulder and drive to the net. Also he does pretty good with touch passes to the point from the slot.
-Prokhorkin was always moving, back checking like crazy. Went to the dirty areas during the 4 on 4. and 5 and 5.
-Andreoff was exactly as advertised. Gritty, was one of the few using his body and checking people. Got into it a couple times with Deslauries.
-Dowd reminded me of Hartnell, long hair, gritty, fell down a couple times. Better wheels than Hartnell though.
-Gravel smooth skater, didn't notice much which is perfect for a stay at home Dman
-Pearson has some good skills and not afraid to go to the net

Some of the small negatives
-Forbort smooth skater, good vision. But I can see what people said about his poor puck handling, seemed to lose it when pressured. I liked his defensive instincts though.
-Schumacher liked his guts but he tried to do too much and deke his way through multiple defenders.
-Toffoli was pretty invisible at times in the offensive zone during the 4 on 4 and 5 on 5 (atleast to me). Did have a couple of very nice shots though.
-


Last edited by Docgonzo: 07-09-2012 at 11:32 PM. Reason: spelling
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07-10-2012, 12:27 AM
  #149
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My answer will be a little short Tiger since I'm not home and using my phone. Will be more detailed later

I never saw Weal as a fast north-south skater. He's more shifty laterally, like Cammalleri. But yes, he, like most players, slows down when he has to stickhandle. But I agree, he's much more of a cerebral, crafty player.

Toffoli's comparatively faster skating across the ice with the puck. He has been working on power skating every day I've been there, and it seems to be paying off. He's not sacrificing speed for puck control.

Deslauriers is a hard read, because there aren't a lot of drills that challenge his instincts. He's obviously talented, and he doesn't make any obvious blunders. I'm thinking his struggles in Manchester is more due to the learning curve at a higher level. Otherwise, I really wouldn't be able to assess defensive instincts.

MacDermid can be signed as a free agent like Roach and Jones in the past years.

I think Andreoff is too old to return to the OHL, so he's definitely AHL bound. However, I also think he will get a long look in training camp and potentially be called up to the NHL sometime this season. The extra year in the OHL really helped his confidence and he looks more refined than Clifford at the same age while playing the same game.

I had this talk about Czarnik with a friend last year. He's standing out, but he should. As you said, he's the oldest prospect there and has the most time with the guidance from the Kings. I don't want to say he doesn't have a shot to make the NHL, but let's just say I'm more hopeful with younger, less flashy players.

And thanks for sharing your thoughts Docgonzo!

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07-10-2012, 03:22 AM
  #150
losingsand
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Got there for the group session this afternoon:

DRILLS.
--stickhandling
--breakout and a 1 on 1 w/ the goalie
--the 2 on 2 drill... which was one of my favorites: 2 forwards criss-cross at their own blue line while 2 D skate backwards from the center line and 2 forwards carry it in and try to score.
--3 on 1 drill... same idea but w/ 3 forwards and 1 d back
--4 on 4 scrimmage / 5 on 5 scrimmage

team white:
G: Gibson
D: Forbort / Deslaurier / Mecdermid / Miller /
F: Prokhorkin / Hyka / Czarnik / Pearson / Dowd / Toffoli / O'neil

team black:
G: Berube
D: Mcivor / Ebert / LaDue / Gravel / Roach
F: Goodrow / Lowry / Mersch / Andreoff / Shore / Weal / Schumacher


--Not very many scored on the 2 on 2 drill except for Czarnik and Weal.. Weal's was a scramble and Czarnik's was a shot
--more scoring on the 3 on 1: Weal / Lowry / Hyka / Czarnik... however deslaurier and forbort did very well in this drill being the lone guys back... good anticipation and solid stickwork to break up a lot of shots and passes.

--Scrimmage scorers were Czarnik with a nice tip from the slot. Lowry had a couple of garbage goals.

--Prohorkin seems to improve as these camps go on, much more noticeable and hitting a lot of posts.
--Mersch had a nice noticeable day
--Weal too was very noticeable
--Shore however was not very noticeable at all
--Andreoff looks very smooth during the drills, and during the scrimmage he plays with a lot of purpose. Another solid scrimmage. He was mucking it up w/ deslaurier but after i saw both smiling at each other... they horse around a lot while waiting for drills. I think these 2 have a fun brother-like feistyness battle going on. Definitely a very promising prospect...
--Pearson seems to be levelling off a little, not much improvement from Friday, but still a really good player with not many weaknesses.
--Hyka had a couple of nice speed through the zone and fearlessness going towards the net... he scored that way yesterday and it was his MO to try to do the same again today... gotta love it.
--Ebert is very raw, he definitely needs to fill out and seemed hesitant a few times on break outs. Needs more confidence, he's a good skater.
(now the best for last)
--Czarnik: More speed / more top shelf pickings... He's very noticeable on the attack, always skating hard and always catching D back on their heels... He makes very quick creative offensive decisions and he's just got so much accuracy and good release on that shot.
--Deslaurier: Looks more mature than any other D out there. Maturity to go along with his natural skills which is skating / passing / hitting. His shot has improved and i'm so glad to see those strides made in his game. You can see him letting up on forwards, but you can definitely tell he really wants to lay the booming check. His timing is spot on and he knows how to be in position / to square some one up and take them out. Again, i hate that he's had a rough year in manchester, i'm guessing he puts it together and hopefully puts in a good campaign down there. He brings a lot to the table, and now that he's got the shot working better.. it's hard to find a flaw.

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