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Roberto Luongo XXII - Quantam of SoLuuuuuce [Mod Warning post 540]
This is how I'm beginning to feel with the Luongo trade talk. I can't imagine how much worse the Kaberle trade talk would've been if it was this organized/had movie titles. It would've been at least 40 different movie titles.
He's traditionally a 50 point forward. That's not a slag on the guy, but after his season playing shotgun with Kessel, he's improved his standings in the eyes of Leafs fans. I remain pessimistic until I see him repeat.
With Lupul-JVR-Kessel as a top line, I don't see a huge risk or regression on the Leafs, but we want someone to light a fire under Kesler, not to be a passenger on his line.
I don't think the Leafs have a top line with 3 wingers. I know their C's are bad but c'mon
Our wingers aren't all that great. MacArthur does nothing for us, but I think Lupul does.
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I told ya so. I was right all along!
Joffrey Lupul doesn't have a great resume...you'd have to add to Lupul, like a first round pick and a top prospect.
Lupul could very easily fall right back down like Kulemin did last year.
So lupul, a first and Kadri? If that's the price he stays. Kulemin has a good chance to go back up. The problem with Lupul for Canucks is, I think he's a UFA in a year. Lupul, Blacker and a 4th i might do. Might. I'm not even sure, I'd be nervous. Loops was 6th in the entire league in points when he went down.
Or what about Grabo, Blacker and a 3rd? You know what you get with him and he was still scoring last year when his linemates sucked. Salary is close and he's signed 5 years.
Would probably want a pick coming back with Lupul, but definitely the best offer I've seen yet.
It'd be a low pick from us, I think Vancouver would be better off with one of our prospects going back instead. But even then, a project prospect who's far down the pipeline. Petter Granberg, Josh Leivo, etc.
I don't think the Leafs have a top line with 3 wingers. I know their C's are bad but c'mon
Our wingers aren't all that great. MacArthur does nothing for us, but I think Lupul does.
JVR is supposed to move to center for training camp, so sayeth the Carlyle.
Yeah, unless the winger can, in a pinch, play center, another winger (especially another "tweener" winger like Mac, has limited value to us. At least Lupul is a solid top six, not stuck in the limbo between lines 2 and 3 in terms of skill set) isn't what we need back.
Also have to remember - Lupul is a big part of Toronto's team. So you have to look at the value to Toronto and say that's it's a damn good exchange.
No matter what - Lu's value to Vancouver isn't as much as Lupul's value to Toronto. That doesn't mean they have less/more trade value, it's just how the team is made up. Another clear example is Staal's value to Pittsburgh as opposed to his value for Carolina.
You guys have a solid goaltender ready to take the stage. They don't have a fix for Lupul but will sacrifice to have better goaltending.
What, is it not obvious that the addition of JVR will probably affect Lupul? Sorry.
People greatly underestimate Luongo's value to Vancouver. Their main advantage over teams in these past two presidents years has been goaltending.
Regardless of how valueable to TO Lupul is, Lupul cannot possibly be as valueable to Vancouver as Luongo. Lupul would just add to their pile of so-called scoring wingers and if he doesn't get cushy Sedin icetime, how will he score at the same rate as he did in TO? Esp. since Kesler is hurt for months to start the season.
Speaking of which, Vancouver is far more likely to be after a centerman. They were after Olli Jokinen before he signed with the Jets and the Kesler injury presents a big problem at season start, that being Sedin, Lappiere and Malhotra with an eye injury are their only proven centers.
Can Lupul play center? Hey Connolly can. Or at least he did in Buffalo. Connolly is another player who thrives in a certain system only.
So lupul, a first and Kadri? If that's the price he stays. Kulemin has a good chance to go back up. The problem with Lupul for Canucks is, I think he's a UFA in a year. Lupul, Blacker and a 4th i might do. Might. I'm not even sure, I'd be nervous. Loops was 6th in the entire league in points when he went down.
Or what about Grabo, Blacker and a 3rd? You know what you get with him and he was still scoring last year when his linemates sucked. Salary is close and he's signed 5 years.
Now that is the best proposal I've seen yet.
Edit to add this proposal again, I believe this is as close as I've seen...prefer a higher pick, or a better prospect, but Grabovski is the best player I've seen offered for Luongo in a LONG TIME.
It's pretty obvious when you look at his stats he's not going to be a dependable or consistent player.
#1 you never know how many games he will play. You would have to predict 60-65 games.
#2 his best season was 67 points. Even though he was a ppg player, he still has never hit 70 points let alone 80 points. Let's not argue the leafs projection bozak debacle.
#3 he's a terrible backchecker. His plus minus on 4 different teams tells you hes not a 2 way guy. He's purely an offensive winger who needs a grabovski or Kesler to backcheck for him. plus I've watched him backcheck, dont know if it's laziness or he really doesnt understand it.
#4 we really don't know if he'll ever be a consistent ppg player an from his history it tells us it isn't verylikely, I'm not saying impossible. However if He was traded for luongo I'd be very happy. Just pointing out the person aboves comment was fair.
This is very similar to what Bure said when he wanted out of Vancover. The fans in Vancover are just brutal. B R U T A L.
They never apperciate anything. I said a few months ago that with the expection of a handfull of teams in the NHL there are 20+ clubs that would love to have Luongo's services.
That's quite a generalization there. And the Bure situation had nothing to do with the fans...we LOVED bure!
This is very similar to what Bure said when he wanted out of Vancover. The fans in Vancover are just brutal. B R U T A L.
They never apperciate anything. I said a few months ago that with the expection of a handfull of teams in the NHL there are 20+ clubs that would love to have Luongo's services.
I don't disagree... But I think this attitude exists with a lot of teams that haven't won in decades (or ever) where players and management are kept on a short leash to show progress towards success.
I do think with fans booing Luongo last year with all that he's done for the franchise made me realize how fickle these fans can be.
And Bure is not analogous. It was Bure vs. Management not fans.
Also have to remember - Lupul is a big part of Toronto's team. So you have to look at the value to Toronto and say that's it's a damn good exchange.
No matter what - Lu's value to Vancouver isn't as much as Lupul's value to Toronto. That doesn't mean they have less/more trade value, it's just how the team is made up. Another clear example is Staal's value to Pittsburgh as opposed to his value for Carolina.
You guys have a solid goaltender ready to take the stage. They don't have a fix for Lupul but will sacrifice to have better goaltending.
Lupul's value to the Leafs doesn't matter to the Canucks. What matters to the Canucks is whether or not the Leafs are offering what we want for Luongo, and what we need to address our holes. I don't think the Leafs and Canucks make great trading partners, although a deal can be done.
What, is it not obvious that the addition of JVR will probably affect Lupul? Sorry.
People greatly underestimate Luongo's value to Vancouver. Their main advantage over teams in these past two presidents years has been goaltending.
Regardless of how valueable to TO Lupul is, Lupul cannot possibly be as valueable to Vancouver as Luongo. Lupul would just add to their pile of so-called scoring wingers and if he doesn't get cushy Sedin icetime, how will he score at the same rate as he did in TO? Esp. since Kesler is hurt for months to start the season.
Speaking of which, Vancouver is far more likely to be after a centerman. They were after Olli Jokinen before he signed with the Jets and the Kesler injury presents a big problem at season start, that being Sedin, Lappiere and Malhotra with an eye injury are their only proven centers.
Can Lupul play center? Hey Connolly can. Or at least he did in Buffalo. Connolly is another player who thrives in a certain system only.
TOML
Connolly is a center, he's not a great winger. You can have him.
This is very similar to what Bure said when he wanted out of Vancover. The fans in Vancover are just brutal. B R U T A L.
They never apperciate anything. I said a few months ago that with the expection of a handfull of teams in the NHL there are 20+ clubs that would love to have Luongo's services.
where did he say the fans are brutal? I Doan get it.
I think Grabo for Luongo makes perfect sence for a few reasons and wouldn't be shocked to see Grabo the centerpeice of a deal, if Leafs do one. Contracts are almost identical (cap wise, not term obviously), Grabo is signed for 5 years so Canucks know they have control of him for awhile, can get 25 goal production to provide nice secondary scoring and the guy works so hard on the ice. Easily the Leafs hardest working forward IMO (okay Kulemin is up there too but he had an offyear). Isn't afraid to go to the dirty areas and if Kessel had his ambition, he would atleast be close to a 100 point guy. Grabo always takes hits to make plays. I actually really like him but you have to pay something to get something.
Lupul has more value to us than he would to Vancouver IMO and we value him more than Grabo. I think Canucks would value Grabo more than Lupul. UFA soon and who knows what he'll ask for or if he just wants to test FA. Meanwhile Leafs I think are prepared to have JVR center Lupul and Kessel and I personally think that can really work out. Kadri is much better at center IMO and can fill in 2nd line duties between Cmac and Kulemin.
Obviously Canucks wouldn't do Grabo for Luongo straight up and that's why I added a 3rd and Blacker. Blacker is actually pretty good and I think he's NHL ready but not a whole lot of room, especially since Holzer is ready and likely to take Schenns spot.
I think Grabo for Luongo makes perfect sence for a few reasons and wouldn't be shocked to see Grabo the centerpeice of a deal, if Leafs do one. Contracts are almost identical (cap wise, not term obviously), Grabo is signed for 5 years so Canucks know they have control of him for awhile, can get 25 goal production to provide nice secondary scoring and the guy works so hard on the ice. Easily the Leafs hardest working forward IMO (okay Kulemin is up there too but he had an offyear). Isn't afraid to go to the dirty areas and if Kessel had his ambition, he would atleast be close to a 100 point guy. Grabo always takes hits to make plays. I actually really like him but you have to pay something to get something.
Lupul has more value to us than he would to Vancouver IMO and we value him more than Grabo. I think Canucks would value Grabo more than Lupul. UFA soon and who knows what he'll ask for or if he just wants to test FA. Meanwhile Leafs I think are prepared to have JVR center Lupul and Kessel and I personally think that can really work out. Kadri is much better at center IMO and can fill in 2nd line duties between Cmac and Kulemin.
Obviously Canucks wouldn't do Grabo for Luongo straight up and that's why I added a 3rd and Blacker. Blacker is actually pretty good and I think he's NHL ready but not a whole lot of room, especially since Holzer is ready and likely to take Schenns spot.
Without Grabo, doesn't you centre depth go to ****?
This is very similar to what Bure said when he wanted out of Vancover. The fans in Vancover are just brutal. B R U T A L.
They never apperciate anything. I said a few months ago that with the expection of a handfull of teams in the NHL there are 20+ clubs that would love to have Luongo's services.
What are you talking about? Luongo was treated like a king in Vancouver and so was Bure. Bure wanted out due to money and a feeling of being misstreated by Canucks' management. It had absolutley nothing to do with the fans. Bure is still loved in Vancouver.
As for Luongo, some fans have turned on him due to his playoff performances and the emergence of Schneider, but he was always treated fairly and respectfully by the fans. He wants out because he was pulled in the playoffs in favour of Schneider.
Joffrey Lupul doesn't have a great resume...you'd have to add to Lupul, like a first round pick and a top prospect.
Lupul could very easily fall right back down like Kulemin did last year.
You need to get in touch with reality. There is absolutely no way that Burke is going to trade his leading scorer of last year. Just no way. And then on top of it you want a first round pick and a top prospect?
I'm all ears when it comes to thread titles. I just listen to what you guys post and take one that is more agreed upon.
