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Montreal: worst in the NHL for taxes deducted.

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Old
07-09-2012, 01:59 PM
  #1
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Montreal: worst in the NHL for taxes deducted.

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/343499.html

Basically a study compared players making 2 million, 4 million and 7 million $ per season.

The most taxed players at all three levels: the Habs

The least taxed players: the ones playing in Florida, Nashville and Dallas.


So now, hopefully, some will understand why we overpay our players to compensate somehow for the lost taxes dollars.

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07-09-2012, 02:02 PM
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cjbhab
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They should put every team on equal footing.

Only the money received after taxes should count towards the cap hit.

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07-09-2012, 02:05 PM
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Jack Bourdain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjbhab View Post
They should put every team on equal footing.

Only the money received after taxes should count towards the cap hit.
That wouldn't work since taxable income includes many types of inclusions and deductions. It would be a headache to start apply tax law to the CBA.

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07-09-2012, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by cjbhab View Post
They should put every team on equal footing.

Only the money received after taxes should count towards the cap hit.
Sadly that would probably be too complicated for some people and also maybe to the casual fan.

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07-09-2012, 02:05 PM
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Gros Bill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/343499.html

Basically a study compared players making 2 million, 4 million and 7 million $ per season.

The most taxed players at all three levels: the Habs

The least taxed players: the ones playing in Florida, Nashville and Dallas.


So now, hopefully, some will understand why we overpay our players to compensate somehow for the lost taxes dollars.
OTOH, cost of living is lower in MTL compraed to other cities (house, schools, etc.), isn't it?

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07-09-2012, 02:07 PM
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Yeah, but the girls are hot. Priceless.

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07-09-2012, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Gros Bill View Post
OTOH, cost of living is lower in MTL compraed to other cities (house, schools, etc.), isn't it?
Right. But these guys have a tendancy of buying really expensive houses/condos. They just got more for their money

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07-09-2012, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
That wouldn't work since taxable income includes many types of inclusions and deductions. It would be a headache to start apply tax law to the CBA.
+juan.

To add, different places have different tax laws. You can deduct interest payments on a mortgage in the U.S., can't do it here. Players who keep equity in stocks could write down capital gains losses.

Perhaps you could create some sort of category that didn't take those into account: "Federal/local tax on Income from NHL salary without tax deductions."

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07-09-2012, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
That wouldn't work since taxable income includes many types of inclusions and deductions. It would be a headache to start apply tax law to the CBA.
They could at least comes with an educated target that would brings everyone closer to the same point. There is almost a 10% difference between the 1st and the 30th team in the league. I'd guess you could brings this closer to 5% without all the headaches.

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07-09-2012, 02:17 PM
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DAChampion
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Originally Posted by Gros Bill View Post
OTOH, cost of living is lower in MTL compraed to other cities (house, schools, etc.), isn't it?
The cost of living in Montreal is extremely high compared to some other cities too.

I live in Columbus. You can have a spectacular home here, at a great location, for half a million dollars.

Try finding that price in Westmount.

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07-09-2012, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The cost of living in Montreal is extremely high compared to some other cities too.

I live in Columbus. You can have a spectacular home here, at a great location, for half a million dollars.

Try finding that price in Westmount.
Most of the players don't live in Westmount.(maybe Markov ?) They live on Ile des Soeurs (Nun's Island) or not far from the training facilities in Brossard. They are not stucked in the traffic on the bridges because they go to work the other way when they playing at the Bell.

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07-09-2012, 02:32 PM
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I think the tidbit that says Montreal is close to Toronto and New-York in terms of net income is interesting since they're two *hot* destinations for players. If Montreal has to overpay, then so does Toronto and New-York.

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07-09-2012, 02:50 PM
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The ranges are not that dramatic especially if you compare Montreal vs Ontario, California and New York. All of those jurisdiction come in at the high 40% in terms of marginal tax rate for top earner (which all hockey players are).

In the Canadian provinces that have NHL teams Alberta is the only outlier at 39% top marginal. The others come in at between 43% and 48%.

Most US states that have state tax will come in between 40% and the mid to high 40%. Especially if you include local income taxes as well.

The outliers are the non state tax states with NHL teams they come in at 35%. But there is a caveat to that. Most states and provinces have a jock tax on visiting athletes. These taxes are usually deductible against states taxes paid so in many cases the players are able to write off a huge amount of these taxes. For the players in the non tax states they don't have any state taxes to deduct and end up paying all of these taxes which are substantial.

Basically the idea that Montreal is not competitive because of taxes doesn't hold weight. If that logic was true the Rangers and the Kings would also have to overpay to get UFA's and the Nashville's of the world should be prime destinations. Players are going to pay a ton of taxes anywhere they play.

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07-09-2012, 02:56 PM
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Not too bad. Actually, it's better than what I thought.

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07-09-2012, 02:59 PM
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Meh.

New York has high taxes too, players still go there IIRC.

Also, the cost of living is much low here. Housing is much cheaper, schooling as well.

Bottom line, we don't attract top UFA's because we haven't won **** in years. Start winning and UFA's will come.

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07-09-2012, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
Most of the players don't live in Westmount.(maybe Markov ?) They live on Ile des Soeurs (Nun's Island) or not far from the training facilities in Brossard. They are not stucked in the traffic on the bridges because they go to work the other way when they playing at the Bell.

Markov has a house on the golf course in Candiac

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07-09-2012, 03:08 PM
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so in a nutshell compared to the lowest taxed markets, a player loses:

2 Million = 9.8%

4 Million = 9.4%

7 Milllion = 9.3%


It's not as bad as I thought, and technically would mean we should only overpay by 10% (approx.) if tax is the only issue (which it is not).



As for cost of living - this is insignificant. An extra 20-30K in schooling, property taxes and food means didly squat. 30k on 2 million = 1.5% (negligible). High real estate prices? Home purchases are an investment. You can argue that players in U.S markets whom invested heavily in real estate in the past have lost far more than that since the crash in the U.S.

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07-09-2012, 03:08 PM
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Let's be honest guys. We offer you the same amount of money in NY and Montreal. I'd say 95% of the people would choose NYC. Maybe not here on this forum but anyone else in the world would.

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07-09-2012, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jmdubois585 View Post
Let's be honest guys. We offer you the same amount of money in NY and Montreal. I'd say 95% of the people would choose NYC. Maybe not here on this forum but anyone else in the world would.
Yes and NYC has almost as high taxes as Montreal does. Bottom line is players don't really factor in taxes when making their decision.

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07-09-2012, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jmdubois585 View Post
Let's be honest guys. We offer you the same amount of money in NY and Montreal. I'd say 95% of the people would choose NYC. Maybe not here on this forum but anyone else in the world would.
I think you're under valuing Montreal... it's the Paris of North America, it's easily top 5 in North America in terms of relevant cities (especially if you're under 25). Add to that the history of the Habs I think it would be a tougher decision than you try and make it out to be.

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07-09-2012, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by 76ftw View Post
I think you're under valuing Montreal... it's the Paris of North America, it's easily top 5 in North America in terms of relevant cities (especially if you're under 25). Add to that the history of the Habs I think it would be a tougher decision than you try and make it out to be.
History is overrated right now. Players don't care what the team did 20-30-40 years ago, they care what the product is now. Since 1993, this team has been mediocre and the players notice this. Until the team becomes competitive again, no big UFA will sign here.

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07-09-2012, 03:19 PM
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Pierre Dagenais
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Here is the actual table from the National Post:

http://business.financialpost.com/20...ly-tax-havens/

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07-09-2012, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by jmdubois585 View Post
Let's be honest guys. We offer you the same amount of money in NY and Montreal. I'd say 95% of the people would choose NYC. Maybe not here on this forum but anyone else in the world would.
Well, yes, but not because of taxes. NYC is NYC...

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07-09-2012, 03:28 PM
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As much as it seems unfair, the taxes they pay is the price for having the privilege of living in such a wonderful city. Though behind NYC, no other city comes close to the culture, lifestyle, SAFETY, passion, and general attractiveness of Montreal. They pay the taxes to get to live here, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Jagr going for 4.55 in Dallas is just a poor reflection on him, he's joining a terrible club run by a terrible GM with no prospects of future success on top of going to a boring city in a boring state. Can you imagine seeing a quarter of the restaurants and cool bars we have in Montreal in ****ing Dallas? Pfft.

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07-09-2012, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
As much as it seems unfair, the taxes they pay is the price for having the privilege of living in such a wonderful city. Though behind NYC, no other city comes close to the culture, lifestyle, SAFETY, passion, and general attractiveness of Montreal. They pay the taxes to get to live here, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Jagr going for 4.55 in Dallas is just a poor reflection on him, he's joining a terrible club run by a terrible GM with no prospects of future success on top of going to a boring city in a boring state. Can you imagine seeing a quarter of the restaurants and cool bars we have in Montreal in ****ing Dallas? Pfft.

lolwut? from the latest news it appears that we were Jagr's first choice but weren't interested.

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