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Off-season Armchair GM Thread Part VII

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Old
07-09-2012, 01:45 PM
  #76
sharkbite3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
Any trade involving Webber would have to include Couture

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07-09-2012, 01:46 PM
  #77
WantonAbandon
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
No it would not. He has one year on his contract ffs. They can't even use allowing a team to negotiate an extension as part of the deal since any team can regardless, without telling them, and could be kept completely a secret.

He's a 1 year rental, an awesome 1 year rental, but still a 1 year rental as far as trade value goes. Couture is not part of any deal.
The preds are going to want a long term asset for Webber and rightfully so. See my edit. The Sharks just don't really have a whole lot of disposable long term assets. When dealing with Webber Polie will likely fixate on Couture. If he can't get Couture he probably would move on and be willing to accept something of slightly less value.

They also need salary in return.

It would be very tough for the Sharks to make this work.

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Old
07-09-2012, 01:47 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by sharkbite3 View Post
That probably would be Wilsons reaction unless the rumors about the secret meeting is true and Wilson knows for almost certainty that Webber will sign here for a long term of some sort.

Even if that were true the Sharks would have to add some salary to the transaction. This would be hard to accomplish.


Last edited by WantonAbandon: 07-09-2012 at 01:58 PM.
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Old
07-09-2012, 01:51 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
This is the lineup at the moment (as I see it):

Marleau - Thornton- Pavelski
Clowe - Couture - Havlat
?? - Handzus - Wingels
Galiardi - Desjardins - Burish

Vlasic - Burns
Stuart - Boyle
Murray - Braun
Demers

Niemi
Greiss

We have about 5.5m in cap space and a full time minus a 3rd line winger. The problem is that it just FEELS like a middling team to me when I look at it. Our 3rd line is both incomplete and anchored by a god-awful Handzus. The 4th line looks ok, but the top two lines are slow, and were fairly ineffective last year. The Defense looks solid, but not 'over the top' enough to make up for the rest of the team. We have an average/good starting goalie, and a backup on a 1 year deal.

It just feels like a LOT of 'meh' to me. There is nothing about that roster that stands out and says "This team is going to contend for the cup". I just don't see it, I'm not trying to be negative, I just can't look at that roster and convince myself it's cup worthy.

Also something to consider, our potential call ups are:

Forwards:
Hamilton
Oleksuk
Stalberg
McCarthy
Mashinter
McLaren

Defense:
Irwin
Petrecki
Tennyson
Acolatse

Goal:
Stalock
Sateri

Not a promising group of forwards, no top-6 talent among them period. Defense has some potential, and some excellent options in goal.

So, all that said, what would I do at this point? Remaining somewhat realistic...

To Nashville:
Clowe, Boyle, 1st 2013

To SJ:
Rights to Shea Weber

To Minnesota:
Oleksuk, 2013 2nd

To SJ:
Cal Clutterbuck

To Jets:
Joe Pavelski, Douglas Murray, Matt Nieto

To SJ:
Evander Kane

Sign: Peter Meuller @ $2.5m x 2 years
Sign: Kyle Wellwood @ $1m x 3 years

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Evander Kane ($4.500m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Peter Mueller ($2.500m)
Patrick Marleau ($6.900m) / Logan Couture ($2.875m) / Martin Havlat ($5.000m)
Tommy Wingels ($0.775m) / Kyle Wellwood ($1.000m) / Cal Clutterbuck ($1.400m)
T.J. Galiardi ($0.950m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.640m) / Adam Burish ($1.850m)
James Sheppard ($0.761m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m) / Shea Weber ($7.500m)
Brad Stuart ($3.600m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Jason Demers ($1.250m) / Justin Braun ($1.250m)
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m)
Thomas Greiss ($0.588m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,998,750; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $7,201,250

Tons of cap space still as well in case Weber or Kane need more salary. Also plenty to add another player for depth as well.

I dunno, I wish Wilson would do something so we can get an idea of what he's thinking.
I would not trade Pavelski straight up for Evander Kane. Not at all worth-it.

Pavelski is one of the best two-way players in the game; he should have been a Selke finalist. On top of that, he is a character player and is signed to a great deal. He's also produced, outside of a series or two.

Also, remember that Weber has a contract offer OTT that would pay him 10 million in year one. He's going to want that....

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Old
07-09-2012, 01:51 PM
  #80
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One way this could have worked is if the Sharks had either Michalek or Setogouchi signed for 3 to four years at 4 to 4.5 million and was able to package Murray, Hertl and a first.

Something like that might make sense

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Old
07-09-2012, 01:56 PM
  #81
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As of now the best chance the Sharks would have in making it work while causing the least amount of damage to the team for the short and long term would be:

Couture + Boyle. That would be pretty steep.

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Old
07-09-2012, 01:56 PM
  #82
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Wellwood at one million isn't realistic in the slightest.

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Old
07-09-2012, 02:02 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
As of now the best chance the Sharks would have in making it work while causing the least amount of damage to the team for the short and long term would be:

Couture + Boyle. That would be pretty steep.
I totally disagree. If they want a long term asset we can send them Hertl, Couture is way too much for a rental player, even Weber.

Hell all Weber has to do is negotiate a deal he likes with the Sharks (or any team for that matter) and then make it publicly clear (which he can do, as an RFA) "I will only sign a multi-year deal with the Sharks". His trade value would drop through the floor the instant he did that. He has a lot more leverage here than people like to admit, and if he chooses San Jose, that's where he will end up.

Will he choose San Jose? Who knows, but obviously we are not trading for him unless he does, so that's what we are discussing. I would think he would prefer a cusp team with a player friendly organization and coaching staff. You have to think Larry Robinson helps a bit in that regard as well.

Also, keep in mind, unless Nashville decides to rebuild all of the sudden, they need some kind of replacement for Weber/Suter or they are not going anywhere next season. We can offer Dan Boyle, not many top notch offensive defensemen available like that.

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Old
07-09-2012, 02:03 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
Wellwood at one million isn't realistic in the slightest.
Is that really worth arguing about? It's not like cap space was an issue...

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Old
07-09-2012, 02:03 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
Wellwood at one million isn't realistic in the slightest.
why not? he's made 650k and 700k the last two years. he hasn't signed yet, so the offers likely aren't pouring in.

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Old
07-09-2012, 02:04 PM
  #86
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Shea Weber isn't coming to San Jose.

He's going to reach UFA and bolt Nashville for a mega deal that we won't pay out for.

If we trade for his rights, we'll get stung too. No thank you, Sir.

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Old
07-09-2012, 02:05 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
He's goalie coaching for Washington last I heard.
He left the Caps after one year. Back to Latvia and the KHL.

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Old
07-09-2012, 02:06 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Rosbeef View Post
Shea Weber isn't coming to San Jose.

He's going to reach UFA and bolt Nashville for a mega deal that we won't pay out for.

If we trade for his rights, we'll get stung too. No thank you, Sir.
If we trade for his rights we will have already negotiated a deal, period. Any other situation isn't worth discussing. He's a free agent right now, we can talk to him, without Nashvilles permission, all we like.

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Old
07-09-2012, 02:18 PM
  #89
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Mason Raymond re-signed 1yr/$2.275mil

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=400252

Too bad there really isn't a fair deal that exists between San Jose and Vancouver (considering Vancouver's need to win-now), his speed would have been a welcomed addition.

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Old
07-09-2012, 02:38 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Also something to consider, our potential call ups are:

Forwards:
Hamilton
Oleksuk
Stalberg
McCarthy
Mashinter
McLaren
Sheppard??

Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post

To Nashville:
Clowe, Boyle, 1st 2013

To SJ:
Rights to Shea Weber
I doubt that's the best package they get offered for Weber.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I dunno, I wish Wilson would do something so we can get an idea of what he's thinking.
He said on the radio that he was looking to upgrade our wingers. Unfortunately I think Nash is his #1 target. I sure hope we end up with plan B. This team looks a lot better if you add a top 6 winger without losing a roster player. Come on Shane!!

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07-09-2012, 02:41 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
If we trade for his rights we will have already negotiated a deal, period. Any other situation isn't worth discussing. He's a free agent right now, we can talk to him, without Nashvilles permission, all we like.
Exactly, which is why I am confused by the fact that you keep referring to him as a rental player. Any team that trades for Weber will have a extension in place already. Nashville isn't dumb and knows this. We don't have a player other than Couture that even comes close to the value of Weber. He is young and a Norris level Dman. The price of Weber right now would be a young star (Couture), 1st(s), and a high cap hit or two. His value in the short term is greater than four 1st round picks because that is what Nashville would get at compensation for another team signing him.

If he does sign a 1 year deal his value drops and he is likely trade deadline bait. Does anyone know if Nashville can trade him if he signs their QO? I know they can't if they match another team's offer but I am not sure about other contract scenarios.

For the record, I would trade Couture and multiple 1sts for Shea Weber signed to a contract identical to Suter's. Weber is too good.


Last edited by Falco5: 07-09-2012 at 02:47 PM.
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Old
07-09-2012, 02:42 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupfortheSharks View Post

I doubt that's the best package they get offered for Weber.
Again, that is mostly irrelevant. Any team can negotiate with Weber right now, we could be negotiating as we speak for all we know. Know team is going to trade for Weber's rights without first having talked to him. If Weber has agreed to a contract with them they are likely the only team he is willing to do so for (he's not going to agree to contracts with more than one team, then tell nashville "hey trade me to one of these teams".)

The only way we get Weber is if he CHOOSES to play here. If he does, the return is tempered by the fact that Weber has a lot of power here, and they will simply lose him next year for nothing (at which point we will just sign him then, since we already came to an agreement our odds are pretty good).

My offer is pretty generous given the situation. Nashville does not have a lot of power here even though Weber is an RFA. They can force him to play for them for one more year, and that's about all they can do. They might even have better luck simply trading him at the TDL since at that point teams will not be able to talk to him, but even still those teams may have already spoken to him and have a pretty good idea of what their odds of signing him are.

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07-09-2012, 02:44 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Falco5 View Post
Exactly, which is why I am confused by the fact that you keep referring to him as a rental player. Any team that trades for Weber will have a extension in place already. Nashville isn't dumb and knows this. We don't have a player other than Couture that even comes close to the value of Weber. He is young and a Norris level Dman. The price of Weber right now would be a young star (Couture), 1st(s), and a high cap hit or two. His value in the short term is greater than four 1st round picks because that is what Nashville would get at compensation for another team signing him.

If he does sign a 1 year deal his value drops and he is likely trade deadline bait. Does anyone know if Nashville can trade him if he signs their QO? I know they can't if they match another team's offer but I am not sure about other contract scenarios.
Ignores the fact that Weber has a lot of say in the matter and regardless of what Nashville knows, one trading partner is not a good grounds for a 'fair deal'. If Weber comes to terms with one team, that team has a lot of power.

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07-09-2012, 02:50 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Again, that is mostly irrelevant. Any team can negotiate with Weber right now, we could be negotiating as we speak for all we know. Know team is going to trade for Weber's rights without first having talked to him. If Weber has agreed to a contract with them they are likely the only team he is willing to do so for (he's not going to agree to contracts with more than one team, then tell nashville "hey trade me to one of these teams".)

The only way we get Weber is if he CHOOSES to play here. If he does, the return is tempered by the fact that Weber has a lot of power here, and they will simply lose him next year for nothing (at which point we will just sign him then, since we already came to an agreement our odds are pretty good).

My offer is pretty generous given the situation. Nashville does not have a lot of power here even though Weber is an RFA. They can force him to play for them for one more year, and that's about all they can do. They might even have better luck simply trading him at the TDL since at that point teams will not be able to talk to him, but even still those teams may have already spoken to him and have a pretty good idea of what their odds of signing him are.
Ok, but thet asuumes that Weber wants to play in San Jose over every other team in the league. DW has made great strides in making this a place that players want to play, but I haven't seen or heard aything that makes me think Weber is big on San Jose.

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07-09-2012, 02:55 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by CupfortheSharks View Post
Ok, but thet asuumes that Weber wants to play in San Jose over every other team in the league. DW has made great strides in making this a place that players want to play, but I haven't seen or heard aything that makes me think Weber is big on San Jose.
I didn't say he did.

*pulls out hair*

I said, IF we trade for Weber it's because he CHOSE to play here already, otherwise the discussion is IRRELEVANT.

IF Weber chose to sign here then we are not trading Couture. We certainly are not trading for his rights without talking to him, so I don't understand what other scenario people think is going to happen.

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07-09-2012, 02:55 PM
  #96
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Quote:
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Ignores the fact that Weber has a lot of say in the matter and regardless of what Nashville knows, one trading partner is not a good grounds for a 'fair deal'. If Weber comes to terms with one team, that team has a lot of power.
Not really. Nashville can say no to any offer and then they keep a Norris candidate and potentially deal him at the trade deadline for a very large amount to a contending team.

Also, what if the team interested in Weber has a terrible year and Shea changes his mind. Weber with a 15 year contract that keeps his cap hit down is a top 5 asset in terms of value.

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07-09-2012, 03:17 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Falco5 View Post
Not really. Nashville can say no to any offer and then they keep a Norris candidate and potentially deal him at the trade deadline for a very large amount to a contending team.

Also, what if the team interested in Weber has a terrible year and Shea changes his mind. Weber with a 15 year contract that keeps his cap hit down is a top 5 asset in terms of value.
I'm pretty sure I already made that point myself...

Seriously you guys, quit moving the goal posts around. I simply am stating that IF Weber chooses to play here THEN we are not trading them Couture. They don't have that kind of negotiating power in that situation.

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07-09-2012, 03:36 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I'm pretty sure I already made that point myself...

Seriously you guys, quit moving the goal posts around. I simply am stating that IF Weber chooses to play here THEN we are not trading them Couture. They don't have that kind of negotiating power in that situation.
And I am saying that if Weber said tomorrow he would sign a long term contract with the sharks if they had his rights, I would trade Couture + for him. There is no guarantee he would feel the same way next year so securing him would be well worth it.

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07-09-2012, 03:46 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Falco5 View Post
And I am saying that if Weber said tomorrow he would sign a long term contract with the sharks if they had his rights, I would trade Couture + for him. There is no guarantee he would feel the same way next year so securing him would be well worth it.
You would be a terrible negotiator.

If Weber agrees to that, first off you don't tell Nashville about it...

Second, even if they do find out, you don't offer them Couture. You offer them Boyle (so they have a D to stopgap the #1 role), Pavelski and/or Clowe, and picks prospects. They will not have the leverage to demand Couture when every other team in the league just found out Weber prefers to play in San Jose (or whichever team).

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07-09-2012, 03:57 PM
  #100
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Am I the only one that remembers a tweet from someone on Friday saying the DW was making a move/announcement today? Was this the Larry Robinson signing from yesterday, just a day early?

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