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Shane Doan (Re-signs with Yotes)

View Poll Results: Do you want Doan?
Yes , At any cost/term 3 7.50%
Yes but only at reasonable cost/term 34 85.00%
Nope 3 7.50%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-09-2012, 03:13 PM
  #51
Sarava
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
It's not like Tallon was great at getting players to come to Chicago, at least, no better than Bowman. The difference is Tallon badly overpaid for the likes of Khabibulan, Huet and Campbell and Bowman hasn't overpaid for anyone.

If throwing 8M at players worth 5M is being a "good" GM, than I'm glad Bowman "sucks".
Winning cups > being in good cap shape.

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07-09-2012, 03:19 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
Winning cups > being in good cap shape.
Right, but people gloss over that the Hawks were a short handed, empty net goal away from being on the brink of first round elimination and then where would they be? Cap hell with no Cup. People can laud Tallon and say go for it in retrospect after we won it. If not those same people would be moaning about bad contracts and lack of cap space.

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07-09-2012, 03:21 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
Right, but people gloss over that the Hawks were a short handed, empty net goal away from being on the brink of first round elimination and then where would they be? Cap hell with no Cup. People can laud Tallon and say go for it in retrospect after we won it. If not those same people would be moaning about bad contracts and lack of cap space.
This. Had we not won the Cup and then still had to implode a big chunk of our team (might've been able to keep one more guy due to not having to pay out a couple bonuses), Tallon would've been a cursed figure in Chicago sports for poor decisions, in all likelihood.

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07-09-2012, 03:22 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
Right, but people gloss over that the Hawks were a short handed, empty net goal away from being on the brink of first round elimination and then where would they be? Cap hell with no Cup. People can laud Tallon and say go for it in retrospect after we won it. If not those same people would be moaning about bad contracts and lack of cap space.
I think they would have won games 6 & 7. Who knows.

Oh and where are these free agent signings you so adamently called me a liar over?

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07-09-2012, 03:24 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
This. Had we not won the Cup and then still had to implode a big chunk of our team (might've been able to keep one more guy due to not having to pay out a couple bonuses), Tallon would've been a cursed figure in Chicago sports for poor decisions, in all likelihood.
Yeah he would have been. But they did win. The Bulls sold out 2 years ago and failed... people can pick on them.

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07-09-2012, 03:40 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
Yeah he would have been. But they did win. The Bulls sold out 2 years ago and failed... people can pick on them.
Nothing is guaranteed, that's the point. Stacked-to-the-gills teams flame out in the playoffs all the time. I'd rather build a cup contender that is sustainable for multiple years through strong drafting and good cap management rather than one that has to be blown up in a year because of the ticking timebomb of awful contracts.

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07-09-2012, 03:51 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
Winning cups > being in good cap shape.
Winning Cups & being in good Cap shape > Winning Cups & jettisoning off overpaid, but valuable talent afterwards.

Like I've always said, I appreciate what Tallon was able to do in bringing in guys like Sharp and Versteeg for nothing.. but he overpaid almost every player while the GM, UFA or RFA and left nothing in the pipeline when Chicago did have to jettison alot of talent after they won the Cup.. talent that, if their salaries and caphits reflected what they worth at the time of their signings, wouldn't of had to have been shipped away.

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07-09-2012, 04:19 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
I think they would have won games 6 & 7. Who knows.

Oh and where are these free agent signings you so adamently called me a liar over?
I never called you a liar, I said you couldn't read. Also, is free agency over today?

Bowman said they weren't done looking at guys in free agency. I think this quote from Doan's agent is exemplifying Bowman's intent. They aren't done looking for free agents but that doesn't mean they are going to get who they want or that they are going to overpay just to have a new shiny toy to roll out at the convention.

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07-09-2012, 05:13 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
Winning cups > being in good cap shape.
True, but Tallon was out of the way when they won.

Shero, Holland, Lombardi, Bowman, and Chiarelli have all done a very good job handling market value and extensions compared to the rest of the league. They held their ground on most negotiations and/or took care of extensions early and often at prices that almost always lagged the free agent market. I think maybe Shero had a few over market value contracts, but his extensions were pretty sound by comparison.

I'll trust value for year over year contention except for short contracts.

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07-09-2012, 05:55 PM
  #60
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Would love him to come here for 2 years. Offer him $12 million. Do it Stan!

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07-09-2012, 06:01 PM
  #61
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Chris Kuc ‏@ChrisKuc
Shane Doan's agent, Terry Bross, said not only have ‪#Blackhawks‬ contacted them, but also that Doan has interest in joining Hawks.
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07-09-2012, 06:05 PM
  #62
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chris kuc ‏@chriskuc
shane doan's agent, terry bross, said not only have ‪#blackhawks‬ contacted them, but also that doan has interest in joining hawks.
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why isnt bowman doing his job?!?!?!

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07-09-2012, 06:07 PM
  #63
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Chris Kuc ‏@ChrisKuc
Shane Doan's agent, Terry Bross, said not only have ‪#Blackhawks‬ contacted them, but also that Doan has interest in joining Hawks.
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Nice!

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07-09-2012, 06:08 PM
  #64
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Doan's agent has been citing client Shane's interest in essentially every team in the NHL. That tweet, while I wish it wasn't, is essentially meaningless.

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07-09-2012, 06:08 PM
  #65
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Sorry... just had to post something else to get my count off 666.

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07-09-2012, 06:15 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
It's not like Tallon was great at getting players to come to Chicago, at least, no better than Bowman. The difference is Tallon badly overpaid for the likes of Khabibulan, Huet and Campbell and Bowman hasn't overpaid for anyone.

If throwing 8M at players worth 5M is being a "good" GM, than I'm glad Bowman "sucks".
Yes, but the trick is to pick your spots or you'll always be outside looking in and unfortunately that's where Stan is right now. Other GM's aren't going to give players away and proven veteran players are going to take advantage of the success they have had.. and Bruno and Morrison are not what I have in mind. Doan is coming off an excellent playoff and plays the type of hockey this team is crying for. It's time to take a chance, try for a 2 year deal but sign him for 3 if that's what it takes. Even if Doan has lost it by the 3rd year, surely one of our "prospects" will be ready to take his spot, and he has the tools and size to nicely take up 3rd or 4th line duties.

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07-09-2012, 06:30 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
Right, but people gloss over that the Hawks were a short handed, empty net goal away from being on the brink of first round elimination and then where would they be? Cap hell with no Cup. People can laud Tallon and say go for it in retrospect after we won it. If not those same people would be moaning about bad contracts and lack of cap space.
People seem to have forgotten a rather large part of the "cap hell" happened BECAUSE the Hawks won the cup and we got saddled with Toews and Kane hitting every single performance bonus they possibly could have.

I have absolutely no problem with that sort of thing at ALL. Bring on Cup related cap hell every time!

Other GMs appear to be able to make moves to address their team's needs. If Bowman can't do this - and I remind you all, he has not successfully done this yet in his time here - then he should be removed for someone who can.

I, for one, am not satisfied with "well, I really wanted to improve the team, but I just couldn't!" as an excuse. He dawdles. We know coaching is a problem, but all he does is let go of (quite possibly the wrong) assistant coach after passing the buck to Quenneville. We know goaltending is a problem, and he sits on it hoping that by changing nothing it will miraculously improve. We haven't had a second line center for how many years now? His solution is a nearly dead Brendan Morrison. Powerplay has needed help for years? Bring in Brunette and make it even more embarrassing. Hawks get pushed around all the time in their own zone? The clear answer is to spend valuable draft picks on small, non-physical John Oduya.

Yeah you could say my patience with this fraud is wearing thin. He better get Doan, but even that would just be a very temporary reprieve.

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07-09-2012, 06:48 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
People seem to have forgotten a rather large part of the "cap hell" happened BECAUSE the Hawks won the cup and we got saddled with Toews and Kane hitting every single performance bonus they possibly could have.

I have absolutely no problem with that sort of thing at ALL. Bring on Cup related cap hell every time!

Other GMs appear to be able to make moves to address their team's needs. If Bowman can't do this - and I remind you all, he has not successfully done this yet in his time here - then he should be removed for someone who can.

I, for one, am not satisfied with "well, I really wanted to improve the team, but I just couldn't!" as an excuse. He dawdles. We know coaching is a problem, but all he does is let go of (quite possibly the wrong) assistant coach after passing the buck to Quenneville. We know goaltending is a problem, and he sits on it hoping that by changing nothing it will miraculously improve. We haven't had a second line center for how many years now? His solution is a nearly dead Brendan Morrison. Powerplay has needed help for years? Bring in Brunette and make it even more embarrassing. Hawks get pushed around all the time in their own zone? The clear answer is to spend valuable draft picks on small, non-physical John Oduya.

Yeah you could say my patience with this fraud is wearing thin. He better get Doan, but even that would just be a very temporary reprieve.
Its pretty simple, bowman is thinking longterm. If he goes over q's head and fires kitchen then that takes some of the blame away from q if they fail again this season. If however, he lets q fire haviland, and lets be honest, both guys deserved to be fired, then the onus is all on Q this year. Fail again and he can get rid of Q much easier.

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07-09-2012, 06:50 PM
  #69
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Doan's agent has been citing client Shane's interest in essentially every team in the NHL. That tweet, while I wish it wasn't, is essentially meaningless.
Yup. This is why I didn't post that last Kuc tweet. He's driving up the market value for his client.

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07-09-2012, 06:52 PM
  #70
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want to drive up the market for doan? Get a fake birth certificate that says he's 31

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07-09-2012, 06:54 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
People seem to have forgotten a rather large part of the "cap hell" happened BECAUSE the Hawks won the cup and we got saddled with Toews and Kane hitting every single performance bonus they possibly could have.

I have absolutely no problem with that sort of thing at ALL. Bring on Cup related cap hell every time!

Other GMs appear to be able to make moves to address their team's needs. If Bowman can't do this - and I remind you all, he has not successfully done this yet in his time here - then he should be removed for someone who can.

I, for one, am not satisfied with "well, I really wanted to improve the team, but I just couldn't!" as an excuse. He dawdles. We know coaching is a problem, but all he does is let go of (quite possibly the wrong) assistant coach after passing the buck to Quenneville. We know goaltending is a problem, and he sits on it hoping that by changing nothing it will miraculously improve. We haven't had a second line center for how many years now? His solution is a nearly dead Brendan Morrison. Powerplay has needed help for years? Bring in Brunette and make it even more embarrassing. Hawks get pushed around all the time in their own zone? The clear answer is to spend valuable draft picks on small, non-physical John Oduya.

Yeah you could say my patience with this fraud is wearing thin. He better get Doan, but even that would just be a very temporary reprieve.
we would have had cap hell regardless of the bonus carryover. Maybe without the bonuses Wirtz decides not to bury Huet's contract. Either way we still lose several pieces of the championship puzzle. Also, don't forget the RFA screwup which also hastened the dismantling of the team.

The goaltender problem only revealed itself last year. Pretty much everyone thought we had a solid #1 in Crawford. We won a cup with Sharp as our 2C.

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07-09-2012, 06:56 PM
  #72
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I'd love for Doan to be a Hawk! GET IT DONE BOWMAN!

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07-09-2012, 06:57 PM
  #73
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if he wants more than 2 years then nope.

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07-09-2012, 08:26 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
We know coaching is a problem, but all he does is let go of (quite possibly the wrong) assistant coach after passing the buck to Quenneville.
Bowman didn't fire Haviland, Q did. During the season Wirtz went public with a statement that Q would not be fired no matter what. Then when Bowman put Barry Smith into the mix, Q complained and Smith was removed. Q got his way during the season so I'm not sure why you are surprised it happened that way in the off season.

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We know goaltending is a problem, and he sits on it hoping that by changing nothing it will miraculously improve.
Its still July. A lot can happen between now and the start of the season. Also it isn't at all unrealistic to expect a bounce back year from Crawford and the defense as a whole. Plenty of goalies go thru sophomore slumps and the defense played substantially better after the Oduya trade, although admittedly going from god awful to horrible isn't anything to brag about.

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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
We haven't had a second line center for how many years now? His solution is a nearly dead Brendan Morrison.
The Hawks actually have two second line centers on the roster. But for some reason neither one is ever actually asked to play that position.

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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
Powerplay has needed help for years? Bring in Brunette and make it even more embarrassing.
Mike Kitchen. It doesn't matter who is on the ice when Kitchen is the only drawing up the plays.

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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
Hawks get pushed around all the time in their own zone? The clear answer is to spend valuable draft picks on small, non-physical John Oduya.
And the team played substantially better after that trade went down. You can hate on Oduya all you want, but the team was better after he was brought on board.

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Yeah you could say my patience with this fraud is wearing thin. He better get Doan, but even that would just be a very temporary reprieve.
So he better get a top UFA or you will be mad. I hate to break it to you but most of the teams from that missed out on the other big names (ie everyone but Minny) will be going after Doan. Should all of those teams fire their GM's for failing to sign Doan?

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07-09-2012, 08:46 PM
  #75
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Bowman didn't fire Haviland, Q did.
Bowman is in charge of removing members of the coaching staff, period. He passed the buck rather than making the call himself. Not a sign of a strong GM.

Quote:
Its still July. A lot can happen between now and the start of the season.
And we'll re-evaluate when... IF... it does. In the meantime...

Quote:
And the team played substantially better after that trade went down. You can hate on Oduya all you want, but the team was better after he was brought on board.
I don't hate on Oduya. But if we are to acquire players who actually fill holes in the roster without creating new holes, we need to use draft picks and tradeable prospects more wisely than that. When it mattered, Oduya was not good and not what the Hawks needed.

Quote:
So he better get a top UFA or you will be mad. I hate to break it to you but most of the teams from that missed out on the other big names (ie everyone but Minny) will be going after Doan. Should all of those teams fire their GM's for failing to sign Doan?
Any GM that improved their team is off the hook. Any GM that has a contender already is off the hook. Any GM actually in rebuild mode is off the hook. Who is NOT off the hook? Those not in any of those categories who are either unwilling or incapable of pulling the trigger to improve their team.

The Hawks so far (two years now) are just sitting there spinning their wheels while other teams make moves to improve around us, after two first round exits (one of which came after a season we didn't deserve to even be IN the playoffs). Not doing anything to address the problems that have created this history is a failing GM.

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