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Old
07-09-2012, 07:44 PM
  #26
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Interesting Wimbledon Stats, not counting Roger and Andy

Golden moment: Schvedova taking a set without losing a point, over Errani, a top-ten ranked player at that.
Runner Up: In the second round, Agnieszka Radwanska defeated Elena Vesnina 6-2, 6-1, while committing zero unforced errors.

Shocking moment: Nadal exits in the second round.
Runner Up: Venus loses on Day One (then waits nearly two weeks and wins the doubles on Day Thirteen)

Wimbledon’s leader in aces:
Serena Williams 102 (!)
Runner Up: Philipp Kohlschreiber 98

Fastest Serve: Tsonga, 140 mph

Take That World: Canadians Eugenie Bouchard, seeded 5, and Filip Peliwo, seeded 4, take the Junior Singles crowns. For good measure Bouchard and Taylor Townsend combine to take the girls doubles

Proof positive that fate has a sick sense of humour: A British male wins Wimbledon. But his name is Marray, not Murray—how weird is that? Jonathan Marray and Frederick Neilsen of Denmark, as unheralded a pair as can be imagined, take the doubles crown. 31-year-old Marray's highest singles ranking was in April of 2005 when he was ranked 215. Last time a British men's doubles player won the championship: 1936, as well.

High Five: Serena has five Wimbledon Championships; Venus has five Wimbledon Championships; and Serena and Venus have five Wimbledon Doubles Championships.

29 of the past 30 men's Grand Slam championships have gone to Federer, Nadal and Djokovic (the sole exception, Del Potro at the '09 US Open).

Total Winners/Unforced Errors Ratios for the Tournament
Men: 10,203/6182
Women: 5384/4824


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07-09-2012, 08:18 PM
  #27
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.Total Winners/Unforced Errors Ratios for the Tournament
Men: 10,203/6182
Women: 5384/4824
Why a lot of people hate the current women's game, encapsulated in numerical form.

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07-10-2012, 05:21 AM
  #28
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Wimbledon’s leader in aces:
Serena Williams 102 (!)
Runner Up: Philipp Kohlschreiber 98
Somewhere out there, Ivanisevic, Sampras, Becker and Krajicek are shaking their heads in disbelief at a female athlete leading Wimbledon in aces.
Freaking embarrassing, really... Especially when you see how Serena was running over people and Federer/Murray/Djokovic played so much more tennis.

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07-10-2012, 07:57 AM
  #29
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Somewhere out there, Ivanisevic, Sampras, Becker and Krajicek are shaking their heads in disbelief at a female athlete leading Wimbledon in aces.
Freaking embarrassing, really... Especially when you see how Serena was running over people and Federer/Murray/Djokovic played so much more tennis.
Serena wasn't running over people though; her serve was just about the only part of her game working early on in the tournament. Federer's back problem kept him from hitting more aces; his average serve speed was way down this year. And as much as women are worse servers on average, they're also worse returners with shorter reach. It's not embarrassing at all.

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07-10-2012, 09:28 AM
  #30
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Serena wasn't running over people though; her serve was just about the only part of her game working early on in the tournament. Federer's back problem kept him from hitting more aces; his average serve speed was way down this year. And as much as women are worse servers on average, they're also worse returners with shorter reach. It's not embarrassing at all.
Nope. Still embarrassing.

Yeah, fair enough, I agree with everything you've just said, but the truth is, the men's grass court tennis has basically become clay v2.0.

Long gone are the days of the explosive Sampras, Ivanisevic, Becker, Edberg, etc, type-tennis... it's all gotten so slow, it's really a great pity the ATP decided to take that month of grass and serve-and-volley play away from us - especially since they had the rest of the year to enjoy the whole stick to the baseline thing.

Basically, I miss my old Wimbledon...

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07-10-2012, 10:40 AM
  #31
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Nope. Still embarrassing.

Yeah, fair enough, I agree with everything you've just said, but the truth is, the men's grass court tennis has basically become clay v2.0.

Long gone are the days of the explosive Sampras, Ivanisevic, Becker, Edberg, etc, type-tennis... it's all gotten so slow, it's really a great pity the ATP decided to take that month of grass and serve-and-volley play away from us - especially since they had the rest of the year to enjoy the whole stick to the baseline thing.

Basically, I miss my old Wimbledon...
Not me. I agree Wimbledon needs faster grass, but I don't want to go back to, say, 1994, when Sampras knocked off Ivanisevic in straight sets and there were, like, only ten points in the whole match that went over three or four strokes. That was far more boring than what we have now. We do need a fine-tuning sort of adjustment, true, but not a return to the bad old days.

On women's tennis, I don't know why people just don't enjoy it for what it is. Until fairly recently, I basically just swan in for the Grand Slams, but in these major tournaments I have often found the women's side more competitive and more fun than the men's side, though admittedly not this year so far.

Though I respect her accomplishments, I'm no fan at all of Serena in the least, but I think it's absolutely great that she led the tournament in aces. The better question is how the hell did Kohlschreiber lead the men, in just five matches at that.


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07-10-2012, 11:01 AM
  #32
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Not me. I agree Wimbledon needs faster grass, but I don't want to go back to, say, 1994, when Sampras knocked off Ivanisevic in straight sets and there were, like, only ten points in the whole match that went over three or four strokes. That was far more boring than what we have now. We do need a fine-tuning sort of adjustment, true, but not a return to the bad old days.
The problem is the short rallies prevent the court from wearing down and becoming slower. It's why it plays much faster the first week, when we saw matches like Gulbis-Berdych and Rosol-Nadal where one player basically blew the other off the court. When they changed the grass mixture in 2002 to be more durable, it meant that it became slower, causing more protracted rallies and more wear, and effectively negating the advantage in durability.

Those matches weren't really all that boring either, and if you didn't like them, so what? Don't watch them. The grass season is just a month; Wimbledon is two weeks. It would be much worse if you couldn't stand clay tennis. Diversity in surfaces and style of play would be refreshing for once.

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Though I respect her accomplishments, I'm no fan at all of Serena in the least, but I think it's absolutely great that she led the tournament in aces. The better question is how the hell did Kohlschreiber lead the men.
None of the usual suspects made it far enough. Fed's serve was tame. I don't know what happened to Tsonga frankly. Kohli just had a great tournament serving.

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07-10-2012, 12:16 PM
  #33
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Those matches weren't really all that boring either, and if you didn't like them, so what? Don't watch them. The grass season is just a month; Wimbledon is two weeks. It would be much worse if you couldn't stand clay tennis. Diversity in surfaces and style of play would be refreshing for once.
Oh, they were pretty boring. Pat Cash, Goran Ivanisevic, even that era Sampras weren't much fun to watch on grass. Were you around to see them? I doubt you would have been all that impressed. Certainly given the botanical sophistication of today, a happy medium should be possible: fast enough to nurture a serve and volleyer, but not so fast as to induce utter tedium.



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None of the usual suspects made it far enough. Fed's serve was tame. I don't know what happened to Tsonga frankly. Kohli just had a great tournament serving.
The Ungainly One is well on his way to having his best season for aces ever and by a wide margin, Philipp's previous high being 388 in 2010 when he ranked 26th overall for the year. That in turn was some 68 aces higher than he had in any previous year. He already has 377 aces for the year and currently ranks 7th on the men's side. My theory is that his competition has collectively decided that his serve is too ugly to look at.

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07-10-2012, 12:22 PM
  #34
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Hey, Raonic is up next at Newport. That match might make a nice palette cleanser after the tensions of Wimbledon.

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07-10-2012, 12:24 PM
  #35
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Hey, Raonic is up next at Newport. That match might make a nice palette cleanser after the tensions of Wimbledon.
Are you going to post updates for those of us unfortante enough to not have a laptop in the car?

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07-10-2012, 12:28 PM
  #36
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Are you going to post updates for those of us unfortante enough to not have a laptop in the car?
Sure, no problem if the feed stays good.

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07-10-2012, 12:43 PM
  #37
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Oh, they were pretty boring. Pat Cash, Goran Ivanisevic, even that era Sampras weren't much fun to watch on grass. Were you around to see them? I doubt you would have been all that impressed. Certainly given the botanical sophistication of today, a happy medium should be possible: fast enough to nurture a serve and volleyer, but not so fast as to induce utter tedium.
I didn't follow tennis as closely when it was still fast but I was never bored when I did, and as you might imagine, I had less tolerance as a child for tedium. I've watched some matches from that period recently as well.

No amount of botanical sophistication could compensate for the sophistication of racquets and strings. Serve-and-volleying is all but dead.

Quote:
The Ungainly One is well on his way to having his best season for aces ever and by a wide margin, Philipp's previous high being 388 in 2010 when he ranked 26th overall for the year. That in turn was some 68 aces higher than he had in any previous year. He already has 377 aces for the year and currently ranks 7th on the men's side. My theory is that his competition has collectively decided that his serve is too ugly to look at.
Probably the same reason Almagro has so many aces this year too.

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07-10-2012, 12:52 PM
  #38
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Newport is a very intimate setting, with NO DOUBLES LINES. It reeks of old money and looks like the sort of place where you might imagine Gatsby and Daisy wandering through the crowd. The last grass court tennis tournament in the US, I think.

First set: both players, still getting used to the court, made a bit of a hash of their first service game, but each held, 1-1...Ebden breaks for 3-1, as Raonic is struggling with just about everything at the moment...I've never seen Ebden before, and nothing much sticks out. He seems one of those faceless, competent middle echelon players with a good serve and a good forehand--in other words the sort of player Milos should be dispatching with a minimum of fuss at this stage of his career. Not the case so far, as Raonic still looks uncomfortable on the surface, 4-1 Ebden....Raonic now holding serve easily but still trying to find enough consistency in his return game to break, Ebden serving for the set at 5-3...and holds at 15 for the set. Not a promising set for Milos, but he's not playing somebody who can run away and hide the rest of the way, so there is still hope. Raonic's movement on grass so far is gingerly, just doesn't look that comfortable.

Second set: Milos opens with a continuing good service game--the serve may well keep him in this thing as he has seemed to have found his timing on that anyway...of course, Ebden is looking pretty comfortable on serve, too, 1-1...another love service game for Milos, who, I think, has only lost two points in total in his last four service games...Ebden has a shaky service game serving into the sun and Milos breaks him for 3-1....another fast hold for 4-1, with Raonic picking up some easy points off Ebden's suspicious backhand......Milos does his usual, patented "let's just get to my service game" move for 5-3...and he holds easily at 15 for the set. Raonic does something that Ebden couldn't do in the first set which is establish clear superiority. Doesn't guarantee a win in the next set, but it looks very promising at the moment.

Third set: Milos cannot take advantage of two break points in the first game...and Raonic holds; his service game hasn't gone to deuce in a long, long time, 1-1...Raonic's forehand pounded into the backhand corner has become money in the bank, 2-2, though, still even....a combination of good serving by Ebden and indifferent returning by Raonic puts Ebden up 3-2 on serve....easy hold for Raonic. I'd really like to see him work a little harder on breaking Ebden's serve here, 3-3....and Raonic does get a break opportunity in the next game before Mathew takes care of business with some solid play...Milos is dicking around just enough to make this more interesting than it should be...Milos saves two break points in a long deuce game to stay on serve. His forehand, generally improved over the first set, continues to let him down at key moments, 4-4....Raonic's lack of opportunism is striking. Several times he has gotten to 30-30 on Mathew's serve and done absolutely nothing threatening, 5-4...and quickly 5-5...finally Milos takes advantage of a break point with a down the line forehand winner and is now serving for the set at 6-5...and has an easy hold at 15 for the match.

A win is a win and Raonic played a very good second set and a good third set. Against more formidable opposition, Milos might not have been as fortunate.


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07-10-2012, 02:39 PM
  #39
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It appears Raonic did just enough to win. He gets Becker next round.

Pospisil goes up against Hewitt later today.

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07-10-2012, 02:43 PM
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Thanks Kihei! Hopefully this was just a feeling out process for Milos.

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07-10-2012, 04:48 PM
  #41
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I mean I'll be honest, I'm not a die hard tennis fan, I sure like the sport I follow the slams and I enjoy playing it...and I do understand that perhaps being that there might be a ton of Canadians here, but seriously? Wtf is the hard on for this Raonic kid? Always see his name in every thread, I mean do you guys follow him because he's Canadian or because he has actual promise I realize he's only 21 but is this some wishful thinking ?


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07-10-2012, 04:54 PM
  #42
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I mean I'll be honest, I'm not a die hard tennis fan, I sure like the sport I follow the slams and I enjoy playing it...and I do understand that perhaps being that there might be a ton of Canadians here, but seriously? Wtf is the hard on for this Raonic kid? Always see his name in every thread, I mean do you guys follow him because he's Canadian or because he has actual promise I realize he's only 21 but is this some wishful thinking ? Guy's ranked almost 400 in the world, there's no other Canadian ranked better?
I'm pretty sure he's ranked 21st/22nd in the world.

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07-10-2012, 05:14 PM
  #43
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I mean I'll be honest, I'm not a die hard tennis fan, I sure like the sport I follow the slams and I enjoy playing it...and I do understand that perhaps being that there might be a ton of Canadians here, but seriously? Wtf is the hard on for this Raonic kid? Always see his name in every thread, I mean do you guys follow him because he's Canadian or because he has actual promise I realize he's only 21 but is this some wishful thinking ?
He's 21 years old and he is ranked 23rd in the world at the moment. He is currently leading all ATP players in four of the principle five service categories and is second in the fifth.

1) aces 578 (Isner is the runner-up with 508)
1) first service points won 83%
2) second service points won 58%
1) break points saved 76%
1) service games won 94%

In addition to the monster service game, he has a very lethal forehand, as well. He needs to work on his return game and his backhand, but he has the potential to be a Top Ten player and, if memory serves, he is already ranked higher than any other Canadian male player in history. I'd say that was worth getting excited about.


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07-10-2012, 06:04 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Panteras View Post
I mean I'll be honest, I'm not a die hard tennis fan, I sure like the sport I follow the slams and I enjoy playing it...and I do understand that perhaps being that there might be a ton of Canadians here, but seriously? Wtf is the hard on for this Raonic kid? Always see his name in every thread, I mean do you guys follow him because he's Canadian or because he has actual promise I realize he's only 21 but is this some wishful thinking ?
The Canadian part helps, but you'll find a lot of talk about him on any tennis forum, more than about most players outside the top ten. He's pretty much the most promising prospect right now, and yes, will likely become a top ten player in the next year or two.

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07-10-2012, 06:27 PM
  #45
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I mean I'll be honest, I'm not a die hard tennis fan, I sure like the sport I follow the slams and I enjoy playing it...and I do understand that perhaps being that there might be a ton of Canadians here, but seriously? Wtf is the hard on for this Raonic kid? Always see his name in every thread, I mean do you guys follow him because he's Canadian or because he has actual promise I realize he's only 21 but is this some wishful thinking ?
I follow him because he is Canadian.

Speaking of which...Pospisil got slaughtered by Hewitt 6-1 6-1.

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07-11-2012, 03:33 AM
  #46
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Not me. I agree Wimbledon needs faster grass, but I don't want to go back to, say, 1994, when Sampras knocked off Ivanisevic in straight sets and there were, like, only ten points in the whole match that went over three or four strokes. That was far more boring than what we have now. We do need a fine-tuning sort of adjustment, true, but not a return to the bad old days.
1994 was great, and it was Sampras in his prime.

The fast grass and (don't forget) faster balls were more punishing to defensive play, and the aggressive serve-and-volley style was endemic already at that point to grass alone.

And you can spin it any way you want it, but the epic Fed - Rafa match from 2008 will never come close (to me) to some serve-and-volley classics like Ivanisevic vs Rafter in 2001 or the three Becker/Edberg finals.

You had clay for base liners.
You had hard courts as a "mixed" surface.
Grass (by far the shortest "season") should've been left alone as serve-and-volley surface.

Because it wasn't, we'll never get to see another Edberg, Rafter or Henman (an average serving fantastic volleyer) or an Ivanisevic, Becker, Stich or Krajicek.

Honestly, men's tennis has never been more boring, both in predictability of results, and style of play (dude, Edberg, Rafter, etc. played serve-and-volley on CLAY!).
The "rest of the pack", the "peloton" has never been worse, and really, there's no "the next, great big hope/talent" on the horizon.

The only thing keeping me interested in tennis (and I've been following it closely since I was a kid and started playing it at 6, so 1987) is Roger Federer.
Not only is he quite clearly the GOAT, he is freaking poetry in motion, the most beautiful athlete moves I've ever watched, and I'm pretty sure I'll tear up like a sissy the day he retires.

Yes, Rafa and Novak are great, yeah, Murray is showing glimpses that he could step up here and there, yeah, it's a shame the injury wrecked a possible assault at the #1 spot from JMDP...
But really, compared to the 90s, and no offense to these guys, it's boring.
The pack, the predictability, but most of all, the style of play.

Hence... I miss the old Wimbledon.

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07-11-2012, 09:22 AM
  #47
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I wouldn't mind having two weeks of tennis under three or four strokes when you have ten months of over fifteen strokes per point.

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07-11-2012, 10:34 AM
  #48
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1994 was great, and it was Sampras in his prime.

The fast grass and (don't forget) faster balls were more punishing to defensive play, and the aggressive serve-and-volley style was endemic already at that point to grass alone.

And you can spin it any way you want it, but the epic Fed - Rafa match from 2008 will never come close (to me) to some serve-and-volley classics like Ivanisevic vs Rafter in 2001 or the three Becker/Edberg finals.

You had clay for base liners.
You had hard courts as a "mixed" surface.
Grass (by far the shortest "season") should've been left alone as serve-and-volley surface.

Because it wasn't, we'll never get to see another Edberg, Rafter or Henman (an average serving fantastic volleyer) or an Ivanisevic, Becker, Stich or Krajicek.

Honestly, men's tennis has never been more boring, both in predictability of results, and style of play (dude, Edberg, Rafter, etc. played serve-and-volley on CLAY!).
The "rest of the pack", the "peloton" has never been worse, and really, there's no "the next, great big hope/talent" on the horizon.

The only thing keeping me interested in tennis (and I've been following it closely since I was a kid and started playing it at 6, so 1987) is Roger Federer.
Not only is he quite clearly the GOAT, he is freaking poetry in motion, the most beautiful athlete moves I've ever watched, and I'm pretty sure I'll tear up like a sissy the day he retires.

Yes, Rafa and Novak are great, yeah, Murray is showing glimpses that he could step up here and there, yeah, it's a shame the injury wrecked a possible assault at the #1 spot from JMDP...
But really, compared to the 90s, and no offense to these guys, it's boring.
The pack, the predictability, but most of all, the style of play.

Hence... I miss the old Wimbledon.
Great post. I think we may be kindred spirits, though likely on fairly opposite ends of the spectrum. I was a huge Becker and Edberg fan, so I do have sympathy with your position. I grew up toward the end of the era of great Aussie tennis: an aging Rosewall, Laver, Newcombe, Roche, Emerson, Stolle and Alexander, all of whom, including the classic Bugati of the group, Rosewall, could serve and volley in their sleep. My own game was modeled after a serve and volleyer: Arthur Ashe (my service motion ended up being as close to identical as I could make it. Worked, too). So I have great respect for and enjoy that style of play.

Obviously I have been watching Wimbledon for a very long time, long enough to have seen Ashe cat and mouse Connors into defeat, long enough to have watched Borg and McEnroe's 18-16 tie breaker from behind a chair over which I would peek because I was having trouble handling the tension. (my then girlfriend and her parents thought I was losing my mind. I didn't give a ****). That was great tennis, but I have also seen equally great or superior tennis played under the present conditions, the finals of '07, '08 and '09 coming immediately to mind. That is why I want faster grass, too, but not back to the standard of the '90s, which I found far less appealing than you did. Ball and racket technology may make that a pipe dream. However, given how entertaining I usually find Wimbledon, if it came down to a choice between then (the '90s) and now, I would pick now. So, while liking many of the same things, we obviously have quite different standards of what constitutes "boring."

I totally agree with you about Federer, though. The first time I saw him play in a Canadian Open (the Roger's Cup now), I was astonished by his elegance, his sensuality on the court even, a player with breath taking skill who seemed to possess an esthetic sense about his game. He has been an absolute gift from the gods to watch play, and he is not only my all-time favourite tennis player, he is also my all-time favourite athlete. But I wouldn't say those other guys you mention lack offense at all; it is just a different kind of offense, offense from the back court. I think the model started with Lendl pretty much, and modern technology and conditioning strategies certainly played a large role. Yes, I find it boring sometimes, but that was true of grass even in the (good) old days on occasion, too.

But I would like to get grass faster to a degree at Wimbledon. Equally true, probably more so for me, I would like to see clay get slower, too. There was a tournament, in I think Argentina, that I watched this past winter, and I was astounded to see how slow the clay was--it looked like Roland Garros thirty years ago and it was a delight to watch. So I'd argue that we need adjustments at both ends of the surface debate. That being said, I've seen a lot of eras and I wouldn't trade this one for any other. That's largely thanks to Roger, but not exclusively.


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07-11-2012, 01:15 PM
  #49
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Is Milos playing today?

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07-11-2012, 01:49 PM
  #50
kihei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Is Milos playing today?
No, I don't believe so. Will double check when I pick up the Nishikori match...definitely not according to the schedule listed on the ATP site.

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