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Montreal: worst in the NHL for taxes deducted.

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Old
07-09-2012, 08:04 PM
  #51
Galchenyuk94
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Am I seeing right, you guys think the cost of living in MTL is low compared to the states? Everything is cheaper in the states. Real Estate, Gas, Groceries, cars, household items... Have you seen how cheap you can buy a condo in fort lauderdale on the water? The real estate market is going to **** in that country the banks are practically giving them away!

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07-09-2012, 08:08 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
I have family in Dallas. Texas is an authoritarian state with cruel and corrupt government, sprawled out concrete cities like Houston and Dallas and a harsh climate.

I'm not talking about the people which are obviously not as ignorant or racist as they're portrayed in the media. There are good people everywhere, it's like saying "yeah I know that chick's ugly but she's really nice" - being nice isn't a draw, it's a prerequisite.

Montreal also has phenomenal food, a great mix of cultures, much more decent weather and it's the best hockey market in the world. When the organization keeps winning and has attractive hockey, we can draw all sorts of players.

In my opinion, in terms of overall culture vs. safety vs. lifestyle vs. weather vs. "sexyness" Montreal is #2 in North America behind NYC.
If I was a hockey player, I'd want my kids to grow up in Montreal. Nice melting pot of all cultures, and to me bilingualism is an allure, even though some groups (Imperative Francais) hate to consider Montreal as "bilingual".

Also hot girls everywhere, of course.

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07-09-2012, 08:25 PM
  #53
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Are there any details on the methodology of the study and how the estimates were derived?

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07-09-2012, 08:25 PM
  #54
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On average, a player makes $70K more for every million in salary based on the graphic (Took the average net income divided by 29 teams) compared to Montreal.

So Montreal has to pay an extra $140K pre-tax money for every million the the player commands on the open market in order to give the same after tax income when compared to an average NHL team. Some are more some are less. So if a player's market value is $1M, Montreal would theoretically have to spend $1.14M.

Montreal gave Price a $6.5 cap hit deal recently. If it only comes down to money and we don't factor in other deductions etc. Carey would have gotten the same after tax money in Buffalo or Minnesota by signing for $5.7M. So I guess when people complain about cap hits they should really look at the tax situations of the clubs making the signings.

So I guess you could also say that Montreal has only about $62M in buying power as compared to the average.


Last edited by HabsSlappy: 07-09-2012 at 08:31 PM.
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07-09-2012, 08:28 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
I've been using this argument for years and everyone who hears it just has a dumb look on their face as though I was explaining the Higgs boson to them.

The tax argument is baseless but there are more taxes in general in Montreal (GST, the ridiculously high PST, school and property tax, etc) but I think they're worth it for having the lifestyle that Montreal offers.

I've heard this argument countless times to. I dont know though, I find it hard to believe that provinces would allow these players' million dollar incomes that are being paid by the citizens of that province (tickets, mechandise,tv rights), that are being earned in that province, to just go un-taxed or taxed at an outrageously lower rate. Why doesn't everyone just register a Florida address and pay no state tax?

It's the argument NBA fans use here in Toronto for why players dont want to sign with the Raptors. Canadian taxes are higher. Very few of the Raptors/Jays actually live in Toronto year round. So even if they earn their income in Canada they are exempt? I dont buy it.

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07-09-2012, 08:36 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Galchenyuk94 View Post
Am I seeing right, you guys think the cost of living in MTL is low compared to the states? Everything is cheaper in the states. Real Estate, Gas, Groceries, cars, household items... Have you seen how cheap you can buy a condo in fort lauderdale on the water? The real estate market is going to **** in that country the banks are practically giving them away!
You don't travel, do you?

Go to New York, Boston, LA and tell me the cost of living is cheaper there. Give me a break. Yes, there are a lot of other cities in the states with lower costs of living but to say everything in the States is cheaper is simply not true.

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07-09-2012, 08:37 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by yoyo999 View Post
I've heard this argument countless times to. I dont know though, I find it hard to believe that provinces would allow these players' million dollar incomes that are being paid by the citizens of that province (tickets, mechandise,tv rights), that are being earned in that province, to just go un-taxed or taxed at an outrageously lower rate. Why doesn't everyone just register a Florida address and pay no state tax?

It's the argument NBA fans use here in Toronto for why players dont want to sign with the Raptors. Canadian taxes are higher. Very few of the Raptors/Jays actually live in Toronto year round. So even if they earn their income in Canada they are exempt? I dont buy it.
You pay income taxes in the place the the income is earned. When I used to work in Michigan but lived in Canada, the Michigan tax man got first crack at me. They can live in Monaco like many tennis players do and it won't make a difference. They are payed by the team and team taxes them based on the being in Quebec.

Other factors come into play as well such as sales taxes which are probably double in Quebec, property taxes which are probably more in most US cities (from what I have seen in the past at least).

Montreal is definitely the least attractive place to play, financially in the entire NHL, followed closely by the others at the bottom of the list.

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07-09-2012, 08:55 PM
  #58
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Well, going by the numbers, if Prust stayed in NY, he'd only have to sign a 2.4 million dollar contract to get a similar amount of money as he would have here, and the gap is larger for the other teams with lower taxes.

But of course, a lot of variables can affect how money a player gets to hold onto. Other aspects of cost of living also has to be taken in account, and that can vary with locations within the city.

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07-09-2012, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
You don't travel, do you?

Go to New York, Boston, LA and tell me the cost of living is cheaper there. Give me a break. Yes, there are a lot of other cities in the states with lower costs of living but to say everything in the States is cheaper is simply not true.
I'm positive I've traveled more in the last 10 years then you have in your entire life. Also did I mention NYC or LA? Those are the exceptions.


Name me a place in Montreal where you can fill you tank for 40$ and buy a luxury condo on the water for under 200 grand, then go to a restaurant and get a meal for 8 bucks and stop on the way home to buy a 24 for 12 bucks.

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07-09-2012, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
In my opinion, in terms of overall culture vs. safety vs. lifestyle vs. weather vs. "sexyness" Montreal is #2 in North America behind NYC.
It's not just ridiculous that people who have hardly traveled anywhere actually believe this and say this like it's relevant,

it's even more ridiculous that they expect hockey players to have the same view.

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07-09-2012, 09:06 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Galchenyuk94 View Post
I'm positive I've traveled more in the last 10 years then you have in your entire life. Also did I mention NYC or LA? Those are the exceptions.


Name me a place in Montreal where you can fill you tank for 40$ and buy a luxury condo on the water for under 200 grand, then go to a restaurant and get a meal for 8 bucks and stop on the way home to buy a 24 for 12 bucks.
8$ at the McDo...

24 for a 12: Don't call that "beer"

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07-09-2012, 09:06 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
It's not just ridiculous that people who have hardly traveled anywhere actually believe this and say this like it's relevant,

it's even more ridiculous that they expect hockey players to have the same view.
I have traveled a lot and I don't know what you're getting at. So please, Anthony Bourdain, enlighten me.

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07-09-2012, 09:07 PM
  #63
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Don't call that "beer"
Ok, ok. Beer flavored water.

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07-09-2012, 09:09 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Galchenyuk94 View Post
I'm positive I've traveled more in the last 10 years then you have in your entire life.
So you realize that for all the strengths Montreal had, other cities have strengths too.

It's fine that people consider Montreal to be the first or greatest city in North America. What's irrational and mind-boggling is that they just think, without question, that everybody else, regardless of values, upbringing, etc will naturally come to exactly the same view.

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07-09-2012, 09:19 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
I have traveled a lot and I don't know what you're getting at. So please, Anthony Bourdain, enlighten me.
You don't need to be Anthony Bourdain to understand that not everybody will have the same preferences you have.

You consider Montreal to be #2 in North America behind NY, that is your view. OK. Other people, such as professional hockey players, might value different things than you.

They might prefer the vastly lower cost of living of other cities (Florida, Columbus, and Dallas), being able to send their kids to English-language schools (everywhere else) the superior quality of natural attractions near Vancouver or Denver, meeting more English-speaking, socially conservative women in midwestern or western canadian cities, eating world class food (Vancouver, LA), or being near the cultural heart of the united states (NY, LA, Chicago, Nashville).

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07-09-2012, 09:21 PM
  #66
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to buy a 24 for 12 bucks.
Hah! Here in New Brunswick a 24 is 40 bucks. You're lucky in Quebec.

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07-09-2012, 09:23 PM
  #67
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If wonder if the Habs could create of kind of trust for this...
They already have one. At least they had one when Patrick Roy was playing here. I remember when he signed his first big contract with the Habs in the 90s, I don't know if it was 4 million a year or something but someone mentioned that the Habs had some form of trust and the way it was set up, with the contract he got, Roy could basically live with the residues of the trust(2 million a year) for the remaining of his career and not touch one cent off his salary.

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07-09-2012, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
So you realize that for all the strengths Montreal had, other cities have strengths too.

It's fine that people consider Montreal to be the first or greatest city in North America. What's irrational and mind-boggling is that they just think, without question, that everybody else, regardless of values, upbringing, etc will naturally come to exactly the same view.
Of course. Of course I'm biased, I think Montreal is the best city in Canada and one of the best in NA, but all cities, especially most NHL cities, can offer a fantastic lifestyle.

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07-09-2012, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by SaskRinkRat View Post
The word here is, by definition, "subjectively".
I was trying to make a point. There isn't really much that one can argue in saying that Montreal is a better city than NYC.

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07-09-2012, 09:30 PM
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Hah! Here in New Brunswick a 24 is 40 bucks. You're lucky in Quebec.
Yeah you guys get robbed. Alberta too. In BC too, No wonder everyone is high in that province

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07-09-2012, 09:37 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
They already have one. At least they had one when Patrick Roy was playing here. I remember when he signed his first big contract with the Habs in the 90s, I don't know if it was 4 million a year or something but someone mentioned that the Habs had some form of trust and the way it was set up, with the contract he got, Roy could basically live with the residues of the trust(2 million a year) for the remaining of his career and not touch one cent off his salary.
Well, that could possibly be the really simple "étalement de revenu" mechanism...

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07-09-2012, 09:46 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galchenyuk94 View Post
Am I seeing right, you guys think the cost of living in MTL is low compared to the states? Everything is cheaper in the states. Real Estate, Gas, Groceries, cars, household items... Have you seen how cheap you can buy a condo in fort lauderdale on the water? The real estate market is going to **** in that country the banks are practically giving them away!
Well, housing costs do depend on the area.

Florida was really hurt by the housing crisis. I do not think you'll get the same in one of the wealthier areas of Northern Virginia. A hockey player looking at joining the Capitals would likely buy a place in Arlington to be close to the practice facility.

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07-09-2012, 09:48 PM
  #73
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I can't disagree with Whiskyseven too much. Montreal is a gem from a visitors standpoint. Can't possibly see it from the standpoint of a multimillion dollar athlete who has near limitless options. For what it's worth, I'll give my Fave 5 north american version.

San Francisco
NYC
Montreal
Boston
San Juan


Personal choice I will take Halifax over Vancouver or Toronto as my honourable mention.

Edit: Haven't been to Quebec City yet.

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07-09-2012, 09:50 PM
  #74
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Montreal, no matter how you look at it, is a unique hockey market. Some players will find what it offers to be pretty much the best combo of lifestyle,safety,limelight and European flavor to be without compare in the NHL. Most won't. Either way the taxes are a hindrance, but they're exaggerated in the media. Both in dollars and impact. Some people want the attention, or want the flavor, or the smaller big city, northeast feel. Other people are always going to wish they were in LA.


Last edited by Bullsmith: 07-09-2012 at 09:55 PM.
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07-09-2012, 10:16 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
You don't need to be Anthony Bourdain to understand that not everybody will have the same preferences you have.

You consider Montreal to be #2 in North America behind NY, that is your view. OK. Other people, such as professional hockey players, might value different things than you.

They might prefer the vastly lower cost of living of other cities (Florida, Columbus, and Dallas), being able to send their kids to English-language schools (everywhere else) the superior quality of natural attractions near Vancouver or Denver, meeting more English-speaking, socially conservative women in midwestern or western canadian cities, eating world class food (Vancouver, LA), or being near the cultural heart of the united states (NY, LA, Chicago, Nashville).
great post

further to this, it's not just about the advantages that they prefer elsewhere; it's about aspects that they perceive as negative and quite frankly fear. ie: FRENCH.

Without going into the french debate let's put ourselves in the average players shoes. Most of them are more closer to being classified as simple minded as they would be of the type that want to embrace ''the challenge'' of a foreign culture, and pressure of learning a 2nd languages (even if they don't try to).

There's a stigma about Montreal and it's time some posters put themselves in players shoes and accept this - this city, and this province, from a simplified anglophones perspective, is negatively challenging.

Of course when they have no choice but to live here, because they were drafted, or traded, they'll likely come to adapt, and hopefully appreciate Montreal.

In a nutshell - I think language is a bigger issue to them than Taxes

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