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Out of the North star's shadow

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Old
07-09-2012, 11:15 AM
  #51
Blakkmantis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GopherState View Post
No, I ignored your point to make my own. There's a difference.

It's a thread of opinion and everyone has a different one. I like the North Stars name because I'm a fan of having history and something that is unique to the area in a name that represents it. That's all I care about. Haven't said one thing (up to now) about the Wild or my own opinions on the name of the current Minnesota NHL team. Likely won't.
Damn sometimes I wish this forum had a (LIKE) button like on facebook.

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07-09-2012, 11:17 AM
  #52
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Wild will always be a terrible name in my opinion because all sports nicknames should be plural nouns. It should always be "the North Stars are" and not "the Wild is" (or sometimes "the Wild are" which actually sounds worse). It should never be an uncountable noun or an adjective.

Everything else (like the fact that the homage to l'Etoile du Nord is pretty awesome) is secondary to that issue.

Also, the North Stars logo was phenomenal. The Wild logo is more interesting from an artistic perspective, perhaps, but a good logo isn't a ****ing Where's Waldo and shouldn't be open to interpretation. It should be simple and iconic. Big N, pointing north like a compass, interlocked into a star. Expressed everything it needed to cleverly and simply. Add in the gorgeous 70s drop shadows (which really need to come back on the numbers) and it's just about perfect.

I'd say it's a wash for me between the color schemes. Both of them work quite well, except that the Wild use too much red. Works fine as an accent, but gets too christmas-ey otherwise. They could also experiment a bit more with the gold.

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07-09-2012, 11:17 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by GopherState View Post
No, I ignored your point to make my own. There's a difference.

It's a thread of opinion and everyone has a different one. I like the North Stars name because I'm a fan of having history and something that is unique to the area in a name that represents it. That's all I care about. Haven't said one thing (up to now) about the Wild or my own opinions on the name of the current Minnesota NHL team. Likely won't.
If that were the case, you wouldn't have directed the original comment as you did.

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07-09-2012, 11:36 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
But you've completely missed the point. The point isn't that North Stars is a stupid name (which it is). The point is that the rationale people have created for calling the Wild a stupid name is far more damning to the name they prefer. In other words, all that rationale is impossible for those people to actually use.
I don't follow this argument.

The problem with pluralizing "Wild" is different than the problem with pluralizing "North Star": with the latter your problem is with the signified and with the former it's with the signifier. "North Stars" might be a non-sequitur, but you have to actually think about it for a few seconds before you realize that. And even then I don't think it's really a non-sequitur: when you say "Minnesota North Stars" you're not talking about a cluster of stars hovering over the north pole, you're talking about hockey players. That's a far cry from the syntax issues you run into with "Wild" (and that's ignoring the confusion with it's being both a noun and an adjective).

Which is all just a bunch of semiotic gibberish that points out the obvious: when people need to speak about the North Stars they simply don't trip over their own words like they do when they speak about the Wild. That's why it bothers some people, full stop.

I like both names for different reasons and do think the Wild are better off establishing their own legacy rather than trying to resuscitate an old one. But I can definitely see why some fans still get hung up on the North Stars.

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07-09-2012, 11:48 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Even if we accept "North Star" as a decent reference for the team (which is a serious stretch) you're still dealing with one of the big complaints about the Wild: pluralization. Even though they were always referred to as the North Stars, that actually makes absolutely no sense. There is only one North Star at any given point in time (currently it's Polaris) and pluralizing it is a non sequitor. It would also be just as out of place as "Wild" in the league as nearly every other team name refers to an animal (Ducks, Panthers, Senators) or generic noun (Capitals, Hurricanes, Jets). There are exceptions (Blues is a specific and I'm not sure what exactly a Flyer is supposed to be) but those wouldn't make the North Stars name any less out of place.

While I can see an argument for "homage to the location" it's not exactly a compelling argument. It doesn't make the "Blues" name less silly sounding. The Maple Leafs have been around long enough for them to be accepted into the lexicon with the vast majority not understanding the significance. If a team came in today with a name like Canucks or Les Habitants people would have far more issue than with a name like Wild. Perhaps most importantly as a distinction, the majority of the league doesn't understand the reference in North Stars. Contrast that with the Islanders (whose name clearly denotes their difference from the Rangers) or the Blues and the name is a sore thumb even amongst those it's supposed to be similar to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by squidz View Post
But you've completely missed the point. The point isn't that North Stars is a stupid name (which it is). The point is that the rationale people have created for calling the Wild a stupid name is far more damning to the name they prefer. In other words, all that rationale is impossible for those people to actually use.
I don't care.

And I think you're missing the point completely in an effort to just go contrary to the prevailing opinion.

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07-09-2012, 11:53 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Avder View Post
I don't care.

And I think you're missing the point completely in an effort to just go contrary to the prevailing opinion.
Not even remotely. North Stars is a stupid name, that's not really difficult to establish. Likewise, names like Canucks or Rangers are dumb names as well. The only reason they're accepted is because of how long they've been around. Squash is a pretty stupid name for a plant, but no one questions it because that's what it has always been called.

The fact of the matter is, it's impossible to both criticize the Wild name for being dumb and support the North Stars name without contradicting yourself.

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07-09-2012, 11:56 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Bazeek View Post
I don't follow this argument.

The problem with pluralizing "Wild" is different than the problem with pluralizing "North Star": with the latter your problem is with the signified and with the former it's with the signifier. "North Stars" might be a non-sequitur, but you have to actually think about it for a few seconds before you realize that. And even then I don't think it's really a non-sequitur: when you say "Minnesota North Stars" you're not talking about a cluster of stars hovering over the north pole, you're talking about hockey players. That's a far cry from the syntax issues you run into with "Wild" (and that's ignoring the confusion with it's being both a noun and an adjective).

Which is all just a bunch of semiotic gibberish that points out the obvious: when people need to speak about the North Stars they simply don't trip over their own words like they do when they speak about the Wild. That's why it bothers some people, full stop.

I like both names for different reasons and do think the Wild are better off establishing their own legacy rather than trying to resuscitate an old one. But I can definitely see why some fans still get hung up on the North Stars.
While I think an argument can be made for your point (and you've done that) at best it just lessens the impact of the issue, but doesn't alleviate it. It's a similar situation to the phrase "very unique." Personally, that grates on me rather aggressively, so it's natural for me to take offense to the impossible pluralization of a unique noun.

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07-09-2012, 12:01 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
While I think an argument can be made for your point (and you've done that) at best it just lessens the impact of the issue, but doesn't alleviate it. It's a similar situation to the phrase "very unique." Personally, that grates on me rather aggressively, so it's natural for me to take offense to the impossible pluralization of a unique noun.
Fair enough. And honestly I'd never even thought of what was wrong with "North Stars" as a plural. First thing that jumped to mind was that line from "Airheads": "The Lone Rangers? That's original. How can you pluralize 'Lone Ranger'?"

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07-09-2012, 12:02 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Not even remotely. North Stars is a stupid name, that's not really difficult to establish. Likewise, names like Canucks or Rangers are dumb names as well. The only reason they're accepted is because of how long they've been around. Squash is a pretty stupid name for a plant, but no one questions it because that's what it has always been called.

The fact of the matter is, it's impossible to both criticize the Wild name for being dumb and support the North Stars name without contradicting yourself.
No here is what it really is, squids. The North Stars is a stupid name, IN YOUR OPINION. That's what you don't seem to be grasping here. If something is or is not stupid is more often than not a completely subjective matter.

IN MY OPINION the North Stars were a GREAT name for a hockey team in Minnesota because we are the "North Star State", so it fit in perfectly.

You are confusing opinions with facts, and you seem to do that a lot.

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07-09-2012, 12:03 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
But you've completely missed the point. The point isn't that North Stars is a stupid name (which it is). The point is that the rationale people have created for calling the Wild a stupid name is far more damning to the name they prefer. In other words, all that rationale is impossible for those people to actually use.
I think more people have a problem with Wild because it is most commonly used as an adjective, and even when used as a noun, it is usually singular.

North Stars need not refer to Polaris; it is a star of the north, while certainly a reference, it's more open to interpretation than you would have it.

Back in the day, they were most commonly referred to as the Stars, much like the Black Hawks are the Hawks, and Maple Leafs the Leafs.

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07-09-2012, 08:37 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
It needs saying, because apparently no one will admit to it:

The "North Stars" name is one of the worst in the history of professional sports. It's stupid, pointless, and significantly worse than the Wild. The jerseys and logos are fitting for that name, poorly designed, ugly, boring uniforms.

Why do people like the North Stars name and logo? Because it was their team for quite some time, and was what they learned to live with. Eventually it became part of the culture. The same is true of the Flyers, Rangers, Canucks, Avalanche, and Wild. It's fine to think the Wild is a stupid name, or to dislike their jersey, or think things should have been different. However, if you ever find yourself comparing the North Stars equivalent to this team, you're not making any argument other than "it's not what we had before."
Disagree. I'm no Minnesota fan, but in my opinion the old North Stars jerseys are the best the NHL has ever had. Amazing colour scheme and a simple but iconic logo.

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07-09-2012, 08:48 PM
  #62
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I'm starting to think the guys being so bold as to say the name, and the logo being the worst, are just doing so to inflame. Knowing full well it's going to hit a hotspot with a large number of the fans here.

If the Wild ever showed a picture of someone sitting in the stands on the jumbotron, or whatever the X calls it during a Wild home game, and put below his picture, this guy thinks the Northstars name and logo is the worst, I think the guy would be pelted with various items, food, and drinks, not to mention boo'd out of the arena. It's pretty easy to make a statement like that here on the internet and be bombastic.


Last edited by Blakkmantis: 07-09-2012 at 08:54 PM.
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07-09-2012, 08:53 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Blakkmantis View Post
I'm starting to think the guys being so bold as to say the name, and the logo being the worst, are just doing so to inflame. Knowing full well it's going to spark a hotspot with a large number of the fans here.

If the Wild ever showed a picture of someone sitting in the stands on the jumbotron, or whatever the X calls it during a Wild home game, and put below his picture, this guy thinks the Northstars name and logo is the worst, I think the guy would be pelted with various items, food, and drinks, not to mention boo'd out of the arena. It's pretty easy to make a statement like that here on the internet and be bombastic.
Not at all. It's a boring, plain, unexciting logo without anything remotely creative behind it. There really isn't anything positive about it other than "simple" and that's not really necessarily a compliment.

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07-09-2012, 08:58 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Not at all. It's a boring, plain, unexciting logo without anything remotely creative behind it. There really isn't anything positive about it other than "simple" and that's not really necessarily a compliment.
That is your opinion, obviously many of us don't agree with you. That's just fine. Continuing to keep telling us how, and why you don't like it, isn't going to change any of our minds. And I think you know that. So repeated posts basically saying the same thing, you don't like it for this reason, and that is being done...




why?

I'd just as soon see this silly thread die, this isn't going anywhere.

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07-09-2012, 08:59 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Blakkmantis View Post
I'm starting to think the guys being so bold as to say the name, and the logo being the worst, are just doing so to inflame. Knowing full well it's going to spark a hotspot with a large number of the fans here.

If the Wild ever showed a picture of someone sitting in the stands on the jumbotron, or whatever the X calls it during a Wild home game, and put below his picture, this guy thinks the Northstars name and logo is the worst, I think the guy would be pelted with various items, food, and drinks, not to mention boo'd out of the arena. It's pretty easy to make a statement like that here on the internet and be bombastic.
Love the jersey Blakkmantis. Great combo keeping the wild the center of attention while celebrating the North Star roots of Minnesota.

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07-09-2012, 08:59 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Not at all. It's a boring, plain, unexciting logo without anything remotely creative behind it. There really isn't anything positive about it other than "simple" and that's not really necessarily a compliment.
Simple works:







Good logos should be able to be reproduced on the school notebooks of 4th graders.

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07-09-2012, 09:01 PM
  #67
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Love the jersey Blakkmantis. Great combo keeping the wild the center of attention while celebrating the North Star roots of Minnesota.
If your referring to my avatar I can not take credit for it, somebody else here made it, I just asked him if he minded if I used it, because I loved it. Funny the topic of what we should change our Wild uniforms to sparked a bunch of great ideas, and this one got the least support, lol.

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07-09-2012, 09:02 PM
  #68
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Simple works:


Good logos should be able to be reproduced on the school notebooks of 4th graders.
I was gonna say that they should be able to be easily reproduced as tattoos by fans if they want. Nothing says a good logo like a tattoo on some overweight dude's back

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07-09-2012, 09:04 PM
  #69
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I was gonna say that they should be able to be easily reproduced as tattoos by fans if they want. Nothing says a good logo like a tattoo on some overweight dude's back

Same idea, kind of.

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07-09-2012, 09:06 PM
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I was gonna say that they should be able to be easily reproduced as tattoos by fans if they want. Nothing says a good logo like a tattoo on some overweight dude's back
HAHA wondering why you said overweight here? lol

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07-09-2012, 09:16 PM
  #71
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Not at all. It's a boring, plain, unexciting logo without anything remotely creative behind it. There really isn't anything positive about it other than "simple" and that's not really necessarily a compliment.
hmm...not sure i agree with you at all. The name North Stars represents minnesota in a much more esoteric way then the name Wild ever could. The name wild tends to be a little more superficial, everyone knows that minnesota is know for its lakes and wilderness. The north star represents all of that without explicitly stating it. The logo is simply yet effective. Well i certainly don't hate the wild logo by any means, its unnecessarily complicated and doesn't really have any unique feel to it.

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07-09-2012, 10:23 PM
  #72
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I loved the NS name and logo, still do. (not the stars)
I never liked the Wild logo (unless in the circle), and at first I didnt like the name, but now I think its one of the coolest names in the league. LETS GO WILD! Doesn't get much better than that imo.

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07-10-2012, 08:44 AM
  #73
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Only way out of the shadow is to win.
Lets hope for some new memories for a lifetime in next years.




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07-10-2012, 10:33 AM
  #74
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Only way out of the shadow is to win.
Lets hope for some new memories for a lifetime in next years.



Wow WildFinn that video sort of put tears in my eyes. So much of my youth was spent idolizing Northstar players, and watching every game I could. Some of these moments in this video even though it happened close to 20+ years ago, I still remember like it was yesterday. Now I'm going to have to search youtube for more Northstar vids.

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07-10-2012, 10:47 AM
  #75
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Wow WildFinn that video sort of put tears in my eyes. So much of my youth was spent idolizing Northstar players, and watching every game I could. Some of these moments in this video even though it happened close to 20+ years ago, I still remember like it was yesterday. Now I'm going to have to search youtube for more Northstar vids.
Same for me, i was a kid then and they seemed the coolest team for me.

I found this.


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