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Free Agency & General Offseason Discussion Thread: Part II

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Old
07-09-2012, 07:35 PM
  #876
BonkTastic
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Originally Posted by Jakob Silfverberg View Post


My usher friend.... not a fan.
I agree. Hence the "Bleh".

(also: no longer an usher)

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07-09-2012, 07:37 PM
  #877
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If we absolutely need to get to the cap floor, I'm completely fine with a "Butler for Expensive Overapid Player X" scenario, provided the player coming back isn't completely useless.

Butler for PMB? Sure.
Butler for Matt Stajan? Bleh.
I think it works for both teams.

Minny needs to shed a little salary to make sure they dont run into any problems and incase they make a move at the deadline for a playoff push.

Ottawa gets a former 8th overall draft pick that could be turned around. We also get to the floor. If he fails, it is only for this season then we let him walk as a free agent.

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07-09-2012, 08:07 PM
  #878
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
If we absolutely need to get to the cap floor, I'm completely fine with a "Butler for Expensive Overapid Player X" scenario, provided the player coming back isn't completely useless.

Butler for PMB? Sure.
Butler for Matt Stajan? Bleh.
Butler + 3rd for Stajan + 2nd would be ideal.

If we're taking any clubs salary dump on, we should be looking to get that 2nd round pick we're lacking next draft.

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07-09-2012, 08:22 PM
  #879
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Is there any actual substance to all this Semin talk? I haven't seen anything credible.

What is the penalty for failing to reach the cap floor? The floor seems awfully high. I can understand trying to prevent Expos like payrolls, but a floor as high as it is just encourages stupid spending.

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07-09-2012, 08:26 PM
  #880
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Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Is there any actual substance to all this Semin talk? I haven't seen anything credible.

What is the penalty for failing to reach the cap floor? The floor seems awfully high. I can understand trying to prevent Expos like payrolls, but a floor as high as it is just encourages stupid spending.
I believe the club gets fined.

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07-09-2012, 08:28 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Is there any actual substance to all this Semin talk? I haven't seen anything credible.

What is the penalty for failing to reach the cap floor? The floor seems awfully high. I can understand trying to prevent Expos like payrolls, but a floor as high as it is just encourages stupid spending.
I believe (off the top of my head) the penalty is forfeiture of games until the team in question is cap compliant.


*EDIT*

As per article 26 of the CBA, the NHL declares a team not meeting the Cap Floor or Ceiling as "Circumventing the CBA", and clubs are subject to any or all of the following penalties, at the commissioner's discretion (Basically, Bettman would be able to do any/all of these to a team, should he see fit):

1) Impose a fine of no more than $5mil, no less than $1mil
2) Direct a club to forfeit draft picks (how many picks and in which round is decided at the discretion of the commissioner)
3) Declare a forfeiture of any games determined to have been affected by the circumvention
4) Suspend any club employee, player, or certified agent involved in such a violation


Last edited by BonkTastic: 07-09-2012 at 08:42 PM.
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07-09-2012, 08:29 PM
  #882
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Old
07-09-2012, 08:31 PM
  #883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Is there any actual substance to all this Semin talk? I haven't seen anything credible.

What is the penalty for failing to reach the cap floor? The floor seems awfully high. I can understand trying to prevent Expos like payrolls, but a floor as high as it is just encourages stupid spending.
I don't know what the penalty is but I just find it funny how so many of us including myself use to think how Chris Kelly at a 2.1 cap hit was an overpayment.

Now we see Foligno signing for a 3M cap hit.

While the cap floor continues to rise, so does players salaries. We might not need to reach the cap floor on our current rebuild, but once some of our top prospects are up for renewals/or once we are a legit contender we won't remember what it's like to be forced to spend, rather than how much room we have left to spend.

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07-09-2012, 08:38 PM
  #884
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Originally Posted by RedWhiteBlackGold View Post
I don't know what the penalty is but I just find it funny how so many of us including myself use to think how Chris Kelly at a 2.1 cap hit was an overpayment.

Now we see Foligno signing for a 3M cap hit.

While the cap floor continues to rise, so does players salaries. We might not need to reach the cap floor on our current rebuild, but once some of our top prospects are up for renewals/or once we are a legit contender we won't remember what it's like to be forced to spend, rather than how much room we have left to spend.
Or how about the outrage from some posters of Chris Neil being overpayed, lol.

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07-09-2012, 08:44 PM
  #885
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Originally Posted by We Want the Cup 2010 View Post
Or how about the outrage from some posters of Chris Neil being overpayed, lol.
Even Mike Fisher at 4.2 at the time looked pretty dreadful. Now it looks fair for what he brings. Will be interesting to see what he fetches next summer.

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07-09-2012, 08:48 PM
  #886
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Total random thought:

Zenon Kenopka's AHL stats blow my mind.

Credit to him for realizing that he'd need to adjust his role to stick in the NHL. That's a heck of a decision to make.

e: Here are stats. He was better than PPG his first year, not too far off the remaining time in the A. Largely ES points too. (well, he may have played A before 2006. I didn't bother looking for those stats. Still.)

YEAR PLAYER POS GP G A PTS +/- PIM
2006 Zenon Konopka C 34 18 26 44 27 57
2007 Zenon Konopka C 62 20 35 55 25 167
2008 Zenon Konopka C 62 24 31 55 9 194
2009 Zenon Konopka C 70 17 40 57 -15 186

He's a hell of an outlier for AHL point translation stats.

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07-09-2012, 08:51 PM
  #887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWhiteBlackGold View Post
I don't know what the penalty is but I just find it funny how so many of us including myself use to think how Chris Kelly at a 2.1 cap hit was an overpayment.

Now we see Foligno signing for a 3M cap hit.

While the cap floor continues to rise, so does players salaries. We might not need to reach the cap floor on our current rebuild, but once some of our top prospects are up for renewals/or once we are a legit contender we won't remember what it's like to be forced to spend, rather than how much room we have left to spend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by We Want the Cup 2010 View Post
Or how about the outrage from some posters of Chris Neil being overpayed, lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWhiteBlackGold View Post
Even Mike Fisher at 4.2 at the time looked pretty dreadful. Now it looks fair for what he brings. Will be interesting to see what he fetches next summer.
The cap going up $12+ million in the last two years doesn't mean that certain players are suddenly worth more than they were 2 years ago. That's why players are signed to dollar sums and not percentages of the cap. Cap increases should be designed to afford teams the ability to add to their lineup not serve as a way to naturally inflate the average player contract.

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Old
07-09-2012, 08:52 PM
  #888
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Originally Posted by jordan7hm View Post
Total random thought:

Zenon Kenopka's AHL stats blow my mind.

Credit to him for realizing that he'd need to adjust his role to stick in the NHL. That's a heck of a decision to make.

e: Here are stats. He was better than PPG his first year, not too far off the remaining time in the A. Largely ES points too.

YEAR PLAYER POS GP G A PTS +/- PIM
2006 Zenon Konopka C 34 18 26 44 27 57
2007 Zenon Konopka C 62 20 35 55 25 167
2008 Zenon Konopka C 62 24 31 55 9 194
2009 Zenon Konopka C 70 17 40 57 -15 186

He's a hell of an outlier for AHL point translation stats.
Wow I actually never looked him up before. Surprised at his stats.

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Old
07-09-2012, 08:55 PM
  #889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKC View Post
The cap going up $12+ million in the last two years doesn't mean that certain players are suddenly worth more than they were 2 years ago. That's why players are signed to dollar sums and not percentages of the cap. Cap increases should be designed to afford teams the ability to add to their lineup not serve as a way to naturally inflate the average player contract.
Yes it does.

Player value is reflective of a percentage of the cap. The players get paid a set percentage, so what is being determined by these different signings is what percentage of that player money each individual player will get. @draglikepull did a thing on I think PPP about it, and his point is solid. We should be talking about a player's contract in terms of cap hit % rather than $ value.

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07-09-2012, 08:55 PM
  #890
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The same crystal ball that said Rundblad > Karlsson.
And Strome >>>>>> RNH

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Old
07-09-2012, 08:56 PM
  #891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKC View Post
The cap going up $12+ million in the last two years doesn't mean that certain players are suddenly worth more than they were 2 years ago. That's why players are signed to dollar sums and not percentages of the cap. Cap increases should be designed to afford teams the ability to add to their lineup not serve as a way to naturally inflate the average player contract.
A lot of players are signed on to percentages of the cap. Why do you think some of these stars in their final contracts are being paid front loaded with their last few seasons paying them 1M?

Cap increases should definitely be a way to allow teams to add top players to their team and give them a chance to win and in a sense it has. That's why we are seeing top players signing 10-15 year deals.

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07-09-2012, 09:07 PM
  #892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jordan7hm View Post
Total random thought:

Zenon Kenopka's AHL stats blow my mind.

Credit to him for realizing that he'd need to adjust his role to stick in the NHL. That's a heck of a decision to make.

e: Here are stats. He was better than PPG his first year, not too far off the remaining time in the A. Largely ES points too. (well, he may have played A before 2006. I didn't bother looking for those stats. Still.)

YEAR PLAYER POS GP G A PTS +/- PIM
2006 Zenon Konopka C 34 18 26 44 27 57
2007 Zenon Konopka C 62 20 35 55 25 167
2008 Zenon Konopka C 62 24 31 55 9 194
2009 Zenon Konopka C 70 17 40 57 -15 186

He's a hell of an outlier for AHL point translation stats.
There is an interview somewhere that Zenon explained he was bouncing around an got a try out with a team. His first game with the team he got an assist and fought a guy. The GM callled him into his office, he was expecting to get let go and the guy said "you are a great fighter! you did an awesome job!"

He then realized that he can get 10 points a year as long as he gets in 20+ fights he will get a chance of moving up.

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07-09-2012, 09:11 PM
  #893
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What's this "Colorado rumour" I'm hearing? With us.

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Old
07-09-2012, 09:12 PM
  #894
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What's this "Colorado rumour" I'm hearing?
Care to elaborate?

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07-09-2012, 09:14 PM
  #895
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Originally Posted by jordan7hm View Post
Yes it does.

Player value is reflective of a percentage of the cap. The players get paid a set percentage, so what is being determined by these different signings is what percentage of that player money each individual player will get. @draglikepull did a thing on I think PPP about it, and his point is solid. We should be talking about a player's contract in terms of cap hit % rather than $ value.
That makes no sense at all. Players don't get paid by percentages of the cap because the cap changes each year and there's no way of knowing what the cap is going to be each of those years.

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07-09-2012, 09:16 PM
  #896
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Originally Posted by RedWhiteBlackGold View Post
Care to elaborate?
Some friends were texting me earlier today telling me about Ottawa and Colorado making a possible trade? Then I seen this:

"Hold on, let me get my crystal ball. RT @originalbw: @6thSens any truth to a COL trade with OTT being plan B if Bobby Ryan doesn't work out?"

Anyone know what they could be talking about?

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07-09-2012, 09:16 PM
  #897
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Originally Posted by RedWhiteBlackGold View Post
A lot of players are signed on to percentages of the cap. Why do you think some of these stars in their final contracts are being paid front loaded with their last few seasons paying them 1M?

Cap increases should definitely be a way to allow teams to add top players to their team and give them a chance to win and in a sense it has. That's why we are seeing top players signing 10-15 year deals.
There are no players signed on to a percentage of the cap because there's no way to determine what the cap will be each season. And teams front load contracts and add those "dead" years you're referring to so they can drop the cap hit.

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07-09-2012, 09:16 PM
  #898
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What's this "Colorado rumour" I'm hearing?
What Colorado rumour? Something come up in the last hour or two while I was out? I haven't heard a thing about any Sens rumors in the last few days let alone one with a specific team.

Can't even see what we would want from them. David Jones? He was just signed though. Stastny? Very unlikely. McLeod? Maybe to replace some toughness and grit we lost in Konopka/Winchester.

Someone please elaborate.

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07-09-2012, 09:17 PM
  #899
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That makes no sense at all. Players don't get paid by percentages of the cap because the cap changes each year and there's no way of knowing what the cap is going to be each of those years.
Makes perfectly sense. When has the cap dropped post lockout? As you mentioned the cap has went up 12M+ over the last 2 seasons. So how does a player valued at 2M in 2010 not be worth 3M today with a cap hit with a 12M cap increase?

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07-09-2012, 09:18 PM
  #900
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Seeing as how that must be literally the only place it's being discussed, how legit can it be?

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