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Shane Doan (Re-signs with Yotes)

View Poll Results: Do you want Doan?
Yes , At any cost/term 3 7.50%
Yes but only at reasonable cost/term 34 85.00%
Nope 3 7.50%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-09-2012, 09:09 PM
  #76
TorMenT
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
The Hawks so far (two years now) are just sitting there spinning their wheels while other teams make moves to improve around us, after two first round exits (one of which came after a season we didn't deserve to even be IN the playoffs). Not doing anything to address the problems that have created this history is a failing GM.
I don't know how you are saying last year the Hawks did not deserve to be in the playoffs. Toews was out what, like a 3rd of the season? Sharp was out like 10 games, Monty out all season, Carcillo went down. How does this team not deserve playoffs? Some people just like to claim that the Hawks are worse than they actually are.

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07-09-2012, 09:13 PM
  #77
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I don't know how you are saying last year the Hawks did not deserve to be in the playoffs. Toews was out what, like a 3rd of the season? Sharp was out like 10 games, Monty out all season, Carcillo went down. How does this team not deserve playoffs? Some people just like to claim that the Hawks are worse than they actually are.
Huh?

He said

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one of which came after a season we didn't deserve to even be IN the playoffs
He's referring to 10-11 as the season they shouldn't have made the playoffs.

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Old
07-09-2012, 09:14 PM
  #78
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Bowman is in charge of removing members of the coaching staff, period. He passed the buck rather than making the call himself. Not a sign of a strong GM.
That is not at all true. During the season Wirtz came out and said that Q wouldn't be fired. Then Bowman brought Barry Smith into the fold, Q complained, and then Smith was gone. The Hawks aren't a streamlined organization like you seem to believe they are. The flow chart isn't Rocky -> Bowman -> Q. Its Rocky -> McD -> Q at times. Other times its Rocky -> Scotty. Or McD -> Bowman. There is a reason why there were countless stories about how dysfunctional the Hawks organization is.

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I don't hate on Oduya. But if we are to acquire players who actually fill holes in the roster without creating new holes, we need to use draft picks and tradeable prospects more wisely than that. When it mattered, Oduya was not good and not what the Hawks needed.
The entire team was not good when it counted. There are only 4-5 players on the entire roster who didn't drop the ball in the post season.

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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
Any GM that improved their team is off the hook. Any GM that has a contender already is off the hook. Any GM actually in rebuild mode is off the hook. Who is NOT off the hook? Those not in any of those categories who are either unwilling or incapable of pulling the trigger to improve their team.
So Bowman is off the hook then? For as bad as this team played last year they weren't nearly as bad as some of the people on this board make them out to be. As I have said over and over if the special teams units were league average (which isn't asking for much given the talent on the roster) the Hawks goal differential goes up by roughly +15. The Hawks were 8 points behind the Blues (9 with tie breakers). If the pp and pk weren't god awful they win the division and who knows what could have happened if they had home ice.

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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
The Hawks so far (two years now) are just sitting there spinning their wheels while other teams make moves to improve around us, after two first round exits (one of which came after a season we didn't deserve to even be IN the playoffs). Not doing anything to address the problems that have created this history is a failing GM.
Go look at the rosters of LA, PHX, the Preds, Blues, NJ, NYR, or any other team in the league and point out which of those team had more overall talent on the roster than the Hawks did last. Bowman job is to assemble to most talented roster he can in the present while keeping the teams future as bright as possible. He has done both of those things quite well so far.

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07-09-2012, 09:37 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
Bowman is in charge of removing members of the coaching staff, period. He passed the buck rather than making the call himself. Not a sign of a strong GM.



And we'll re-evaluate when... IF... it does. In the meantime...



I don't hate on Oduya. But if we are to acquire players who actually fill holes in the roster without creating new holes, we need to use draft picks and tradeable prospects more wisely than that. When it mattered, Oduya was not good and not what the Hawks needed.



Any GM that improved their team is off the hook. Any GM that has a contender already is off the hook. Any GM actually in rebuild mode is off the hook. Who is NOT off the hook? Those not in any of those categories who are either unwilling or incapable of pulling the trigger to improve their team.

The Hawks so far (two years now) are just sitting there spinning their wheels while other teams make moves to improve around us, after two first round exits (one of which came after a season we didn't deserve to even be IN the playoffs). Not doing anything to address the problems that have created this history is a failing GM.
100% disagree. Seems obvious to me that there is a rift between bowman and Q. Bowman is letting Q tie his own noose.

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07-09-2012, 09:55 PM
  #80
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Yes, but the trick is to pick your spots or you'll always be outside looking in and unfortunately that's where Stan is right now. Other GM's aren't going to give players away and proven veteran players are going to take advantage of the success they have had.. and Bruno and Morrison are not what I have in mind. Doan is coming off an excellent playoff and plays the type of hockey this team is crying for. It's time to take a chance, try for a 2 year deal but sign him for 3 if that's what it takes. Even if Doan has lost it by the 3rd year, surely one of our "prospects" will be ready to take his spot, and he has the tools and size to nicely take up 3rd or 4th line duties.
Exactly, it is about picking your spots... which Tallon was pretty bad with. I mean, FFS, he signed Huet to a huge contract before having a place to put Khabibulan.. what kind of GM does that? Next thing you know, Huet sucks and it's only because of Tallon's lack of preperation that Khabi did stay and was able to give Chicago a good season (finally) which helped propel them into the playoffs.

What do we know has happened from this summer, thus far?

- We know that Bowman heavily pursued both Parise and Suter but focused their efforts more on Parise.
- We know that Bowman pursued Brodeur, though he was likely never going to be anyone other than NJ.
- We know that they're interested and have contacted Doan's agent in an attempt to sign him.

But, at the end of the day, it's a two-way street. Parise likely had interest in playing in Chicago, but when Minny came calling and the chance to play with his buddy Suter arose, money/term became less significant. Chicago had interest in Brodeur, but Brodeur was never going to leave NJ as long as he was offered a contract and even if Chicago throws 4-years and 20M at Doan, if he wants to stay on the West coast, he'll stay on the West coast in Phoenix, Vancouver or even LA.

Chicago isn't the only good team. Chicago isn't the only team with talented players that will be/should be contending for the forseeable future.. There is something to say about GM's who rountinely get good players to sign with their team.. but any GM of any big-market team can throw unwarrented cash at a player and that player would be hard pressed to not accept. (See: Campbell, Brian; Huet, Cristobal.) Throwing retarded amounts of money to good but not great players =/= being a good/great GM.

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07-09-2012, 11:02 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
100% disagree. Seems obvious to me that there is a rift between bowman and Q. Bowman is letting Q tie his own noose.
Which is a joke if your the GM, I am going to purposefulness let the team I am in charge of fail so I can fire the coach who I don't think is good enough without much outcry or 2nd guessing. All signs of a GM who as Crazy Ike said is weak and not doing his job.

If you think the coach isn't good enough then you fire him and replace him. 2 of the last 5 Cup winners (Pit and LA) changed coaches during their Cup winning years.

Bowman seems to me that he is too weak, not smart enough or not good enough to get the job done.

I don't want the he has talked to all the big FA excuse either, his job is to improve the team not talk about improving the team, actions speak louder then words, and his actions are that he has yet to bring in a real difference maker for this team since taking over and that the holes this team has are not filled.

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07-09-2012, 11:08 PM
  #82
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If Doaner boner doesn't re-sign in PHX, I'd wager we're his first choice.

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07-09-2012, 11:11 PM
  #83
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If Doaner boner doesn't re-sign in PHX, I'd wager we're his first choice.
Why? LA would seem to line up quite well for him, given the proximity to his family. And a better chance to contend for a Cup than in Chicago.
Even San Jose is potentially more desirable as a destination for the guy, given the parameters for his decision that we know about. The Hawks are about on par with the Sharks in terms of ability to contend, but SJ has the location advantage.

EDIT: Forgot Vancouver. Better team than Chicago as things stand.


Last edited by Chris Hansen: 07-09-2012 at 11:22 PM.
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07-09-2012, 11:19 PM
  #84
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If Doaner boner doesn't re-sign in PHX, I'd wager we're his first choice.
Respectfully disagree. I think it would be Vancouver.

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07-09-2012, 11:28 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Which is a joke if your the GM, I am going to purposefulness let the team I am in charge of fail so I can fire the coach who I don't think is good enough without much outcry or 2nd guessing. All signs of a GM who as Crazy Ike said is weak and not doing his job.
Or that Bowman wasn't allowed to fire Q and was forced to appease him. Bowman has at least one boss (Rocky) and if you what has been reported is true probably a few more (McD and the other accountants). If Bowman's boss wants to keep the coach around for another season there is nothing Stan can do about it.

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If you think the coach isn't good enough then you fire him and replace him. 2 of the last 5 Cup winners (Pit and LA) changed coaches during their Cup winning years.
That is only true of the owner. GM's don't own the team, they report to the owner. If the Owner wants to keep the coach around then the GM has to keep the coach around.

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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Bowman seems to me that he is too weak, not smart enough or not good enough to get the job done.

I don't want the he has talked to all the big FA excuse either, his job is to improve the team not talk about improving the team, actions speak louder then words, and his actions are that he has yet to bring in a real difference maker for this team since taking over and that the holes this team has are not filled.
There were maybe 3 real difference makers in this UFA pool. So according to you so far only Minny's GM has done a good job?

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07-09-2012, 11:30 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Which is a joke if your the GM, I am going to purposefulness let the team I am in charge of fail so I can fire the coach who I don't think is good enough without much outcry or 2nd guessing. All signs of a GM who as Crazy Ike said is weak and not doing his job.

If you think the coach isn't good enough then you fire him and replace him. 2 of the last 5 Cup winners (Pit and LA) changed coaches during their Cup winning years.

Bowman seems to me that he is too weak, not smart enough or not good enough to get the job done.

I don't want the he has talked to all the big FA excuse either, his job is to improve the team not talk about improving the team, actions speak louder then words, and his actions are that he has yet to bring in a real difference maker for this team since taking over and that the holes this team has are not filled.
Its not dissimilar to the situation with the white sox. You can't just fire a championship winning coach on a "whim". While some of us see the coaching problems with the team, I'd wager the vast majority of fans don't and there'd be a lot of backlash from firing the stache. There's a huge amount of politicking involved in firing a coach.

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07-10-2012, 12:01 AM
  #87
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Its not dissimilar to the situation with the white sox. You can't just fire a championship winning coach on a "whim". While some of us see the coaching problems with the team, I'd wager the vast majority of fans don't and there'd be a lot of backlash from firing the stache. There's a huge amount of politicking involved in firing a coach.
His job isn't to make fans like him though, it appears he thinks it is but it isn't it's to win games. Sure if and when he fires Q there will be a backlash wether that's this year or next year or whenever. But if you get a coach in here to effect a change in the teams demeanor and work effort and he wins changes, that backlash will quickly die down.

This might have been the perfect time to fire Q after a 2nd straight first round exit and underperformance from the team in general. What happens if the team overperforms next year and plays better then they should and makes it to the Conference Finals, now you can't fire Q because this team is on the rebound even though it's still not good enough and even if you think Q isn't the right guy.

Yes an owner has a say, but from my experience if the GM goes to the owner and tells him his play and it's a good plan the owner goes with it. This to me goes back to GM not being strong enough.

Ray Shero was able to fire Michel Therrien the year after his took them to the Cup finals, the new coach wins them the Cup. Not saying it will happen to the Hawks but it shows if you think someone isn't doing their job or can't then it's time to change that person. No questions asked, no worrying about fan response, no trying to make everyone love you, do your job.

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07-10-2012, 12:09 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
His job isn't to make fans like him though, it appears he thinks it is but it isn't it's to win games. Sure if and when he fires Q there will be a backlash wether that's this year or next year or whenever. But if you get a coach in here to effect a change in the teams demeanor and work effort and he wins changes, that backlash will quickly die down.
His job isn't to win cups either. His job is to make the Owner happy. If Rocky wants Q to stay it doesn't matter what Bowman thinks.

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07-10-2012, 12:12 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
His job isn't to make fans like him though, it appears he thinks it is but it isn't it's to win games. Sure if and when he fires Q there will be a backlash wether that's this year or next year or whenever. But if you get a coach in here to effect a change in the teams demeanor and work effort and he wins changes, that backlash will quickly die down.

This might have been the perfect time to fire Q after a 2nd straight first round exit and underperformance from the team in general. What happens if the team overperforms next year and plays better then they should and makes it to the Conference Finals, now you can't fire Q because this team is on the rebound even though it's still not good enough and even if you think Q isn't the right guy.

Yes an owner has a say, but from my experience if the GM goes to the owner and tells him his play and it's a good plan the owner goes with it. This to me goes back to GM not being strong enough.

Ray Shero was able to fire Michel Therrien the year after his took them to the Cup finals, the new coach wins them the Cup. Not saying it will happen to the Hawks but it shows if you think someone isn't doing their job or can't then it's time to change that person. No questions asked, no worrying about fan response, no trying to make everyone love you, do your job.
If you don't think a GM has to be concerned with fan/leauge perception of himself and the team, you're insane.

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07-10-2012, 12:47 AM
  #90
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Respectfully disagree. I think it would be Vancouver.
Sadly, I'm inclined to think this as well. Think his main goal is to win a championship, and he probably figures that the Nucks offer him the best chance at this point while also being in a situation to be able to pay him a decent amount.

Of course, I'm still confident in Vancouver finding a way to blow it even if they add Doan to the roster.

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07-10-2012, 12:52 AM
  #91
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Would love him to come here for 2 years. Offer him $12 million. Do it Stan!
why?

that's just too much for him


We would get him but this is not worth it

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07-10-2012, 03:13 AM
  #92
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If you don't think a GM has to be concerned with fan/leauge perception of himself and the team, you're insane.
Fan perception no, fans will love you if you win. Bowman seems to be to afraid to really pull the trigger on a big deal because he is afraid of what fans might think. But you can't you have to do what is best for your team, know it's the right move and go ahead. If you are worried about what the fans think so you don't do certain things then yes that is a problem and to me that seems to be in Bowmans mind, don't really change anything then it's not really your fault.

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07-10-2012, 03:16 AM
  #93
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I refuse to get excited about this one. I just don't get the feeling there's any chance Doan comes here.

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07-10-2012, 04:39 AM
  #94
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why?

that's just too much for him


We would get him but this is not worth it
Why is it too much for him? I'd sooner spend the $$$ then let it sit and rot. "If" by some chance Stan wants to do something at the deadline, bury Frolik in the minors. He'd be a great asset to this team.

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07-10-2012, 05:30 AM
  #95
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Why is it too much for him? I'd sooner spend the $$$ then let it sit and rot. "If" by some chance Stan wants to do something at the deadline, bury Frolik in the minors. He'd be a great asset to this team.
Doan on a 35+ contract with a 6 million cap hit doesn't sound good to me

+ we don't know about the Cap for next year. This could really finish the dreams to get a #1 goalie

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Fan perception no, fans will love you if you win. Bowman seems to be to afraid to really pull the trigger on a big deal because he is afraid of what fans might think. But you can't you have to do what is best for your team, know it's the right move and go ahead. If you are worried about what the fans think so you don't do certain things then yes that is a problem and to me that seems to be in Bowmans mind, don't really change anything then it's not really your fault.
Bowman isn't afraid to pull the trigger. He just isn't stupid. He won't overpay just to get this guy or the other. He has a full roster that will make the POs with a Core that has won the Cup already. He is in no hurry. He will not overpay for a free agent or give away more assets/value than he gets back in a trade. I'm fine with this.

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07-10-2012, 07:39 AM
  #96
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Respectfully disagree. I think it would be Vancouver.
After the way he played against us in the playoffs, his style of being an ******* would fit in well there.

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07-10-2012, 07:44 AM
  #97
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i don't really like the guy or his style of play. people are overestimating how much he could or would help us. if he doesn't sign here i won't be upset at all.

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07-10-2012, 08:08 AM
  #98
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I was beat to it but I agree that his attitude and the way he played us makes me think he belongs with other dirty, whining players in Vancouver.

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07-10-2012, 10:42 AM
  #99
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Fan perception no, fans will love you if you win. Bowman seems to be to afraid to really pull the trigger on a big deal because he is afraid of what fans might think. But you can't you have to do what is best for your team, know it's the right move and go ahead. If you are worried about what the fans think so you don't do certain things then yes that is a problem and to me that seems to be in Bowmans mind, don't really change anything then it's not really your fault.
Do you guys really think this? Honest question.

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07-10-2012, 10:46 AM
  #100
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Bowman is afraid he's going to lose a big trade. That's why he won't pull the trigger.

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