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Free Agent Frenzy (Part VIII): Still no decision with Doan

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Old
07-10-2012, 12:10 AM
  #851
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Is Miller a deal breaker? It would be tough to argue that when he is not on the untouchable list.
I think he has to be kept out of this deal, kid should replace Dubinsky but hopefully with more upside.

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07-10-2012, 12:13 AM
  #852
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Originally Posted by Broadway Brad View Post
No. Boyle is our 4th line center at the moment. If he needs to be bumped up to the 3rd line, Halpern will be the 4th line center.
I somehow missed the Halpern signing. I'm not sure who you see on the third line over Boyle, but if we trade for Nash, Dubinsky or Anisimov are probably headed the other way, if not both. The only way I see him on the 4th line is if we sign Doan or another top 9 forward.

Kreider-Richards-Callahan
Anisimov-Stepan-Dubinsky
Hagelin-Boyle-Pyatt
Asham-Halpern-Rupp

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07-10-2012, 12:16 AM
  #853
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
I think he has to be kept out of this deal, kid should replace Dubinsky but hopefully with more upside.
I don't know why everyone is acting like Dubinsky is going to be a difficult piece to replace. His production sucked last year and we went to the conference finals. Forwards that forecheck well and put up 30 points are more and more becoming a dime a dozen. If we trade Miller I have plenty of faith they'd find someone that can fill that void, in fact I'd venture to say Hagelin pretty much already replaced Dubinsky last season with four more points in 13 less games. I'll be very surprised if Hagelin doesn't hit ~50 points in a full season. Dubinsky's best season he posted 54 points.

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07-10-2012, 12:18 AM
  #854
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
I think he has to be kept out of this deal, kid should replace Dubinsky but hopefully with more upside.
I agree but how? Howson will probe until he senses pain. Dubi -arty-miller is painful to me. Offering dubi-hags-thomas instead also hurts. Which one hurts less?

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07-10-2012, 12:21 AM
  #855
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
I somehow missed the Halpern signing. I'm not sure who you see on the third line over Boyle, but if we trade for Nash, Dubinsky or Anisimov are probably headed the other way, if not both. The only way I see him on the 4th line is if we sign Doan or another top 9 forward.

Kreider-Richards-Callahan
Anisimov-Stepan-Dubinsky
Hagelin-Boyle-Pyatt
Asham-Halpern-Rupp
Without the Nash trade, I'd say we're going to get something like this to start the season.

Hagelin-Richards-Callahan
Kreider-Stepan-Dubinsky
Anisimov-Boyle-Pyatt
Asham-Halpern-Rupp

Once Gaborik comes back.

Hagelin-Richards-Gaborik
Kreider-Stepan-Callahan
Dubinsky-Anisimov-Pyatt
Boyle-Halpern-Asham

I think it all depends on what they give up for Nash. If they trade both Dubinsky and Anisimov, Boyle would unfortunately be the 3rd line center. If either of those 2 are still on the roster, they should be the 3rd line center. I'd really like a 3rd line of Dubinsky centering Hagelin and Pyatt or another free agent signing.

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Old
07-10-2012, 12:23 AM
  #856
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
I agree but how? Howson will probe until he senses pain. Dubi -arty-miller is painful to me. Offering dubi-hags-thomas instead also hurts. Which one hurts less?
I have the feeling it's Dubi-Hags-Thomas and I'm ok with that.

Rangers need to up their offer just a hair and Hagelin has a lot of appeal right now. He's also kind of the odd man out with Nash/Kreider on LW and Gaborik/Callahan on RW. He gets relegated to the 3rd line, which is probably where he belongs anyway but we have a billion 3/4 line guys now.

Kreider-Richards-Gaborik
Nash-Stepan-Callahan
Boyle-Anisimov-Pyatt

Boyle is best suited on the wing, Anisimov at center but Boyle can take some draws. Also a couple big bodies with Anisimov to open up space will help. He produced some of his best numbers with Prust and Jody freaking Shelley.

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07-10-2012, 12:24 AM
  #857
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Originally Posted by Broadway Brad View Post
Without the Nash trade, I'd say we're going to get something like this to start the season.

Hagelin-Richards-Callahan
Kreider-Stepan-Dubinsky
Anisimov-Boyle-Pyatt
Asham-Halpern-Rupp

Once Gaborik comes back.

Hagelin-Richards-Gaborik
Kreider-Stepan-Callahan
Dubinsky-Anisimov-Pyatt
Boyle-Halpern-Asham

I think it all depends on what they egive up for Nash. If they trade both Dubinsky and Anisimov, Boyle would unfortunately be the 3rd line center. If either of those 2 are still on the roster, they should be the 3rd line center. I'd really like a 3rd line of Dubinsky centering Hagelin and Pyatt or another free agent signing.
I prefer boyle as a 4th line c.

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07-10-2012, 12:26 AM
  #858
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
Stralman spent pretty much the whole season on the right side(well since he was injected into the lineup). He was solid defensively, I don't know where you are getting this.
If Stralman played the right side "pretty much" the entire season, how did Del Zotto average 22 minutes a game? Once Staal was about two weeks into being back he was moved up to the second pair and off of the third pair with Bickel...they split time there,and neither were effective. It's VERY wishful thinking if you really think we can go far with either one of them on the right side on the second pair, especially from the start.

In the playoffs Torts bounced Del Zotto and Stralman back and forth as the 2nd right defenseman because neither were comfortable there. I'm not pulling this out of thin air. Bickel was not our only problem defensively, and was not the only reason Girardi pushed 25 to 30 minutes a game every night.

Handedness and position preference are so overlooked on defense by the fans. You play on the natural side all career and then people seem to think it's no different to flip onto the other side. They do the same thing with forwards when they make their hypothetical lineups.

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Old
07-10-2012, 12:27 AM
  #859
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
I prefer boyle as a 4th line c.
As do I. I don't want Boyle on the 3rd line by any stretch, but without another signing, he will be. If he's on the 4th line, he's probably going to play wing because Halpern is better at faceoffs. I know he's not a wing, but he'll be better there than Rupp or Asham.

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Old
07-10-2012, 12:28 AM
  #860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadway Brad View Post
Without the Nash trade, I'd say we're going to get something like this to start the season.

Hagelin-Richards-Callahan
Kreider-Stepan-Dubinsky
Anisimov-Boyle-Pyatt
Asham-Halpern-Rupp

Once Gaborik comes back.

Hagelin-Richards-Gaborik
Kreider-Stepan-Callahan
Dubinsky-Anisimov-Pyatt
Boyle-Halpern-Asham

I think it all depends on what they give up for Nash. If they trade both Dubinsky and Anisimov, Boyle would unfortunately be the 3rd line center. If either of those 2 are still on the roster, they should be the 3rd line center. I'd really like a 3rd line of Dubinsky centering Hagelin and Pyatt or another free agent signing.
If they give up one for nash, you're still left with Boyle in the top 9, as you're just swapping ANisimov or Dubinsky's spot for Nash's spot...

Until Gaborik comes back I don't see a scenario other than Doan being signed where Boyle is the 4th line center. And let's be honest, by the time Gaborik is back, the odds of everyone else in the top 9 isn't great.

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07-10-2012, 12:29 AM
  #861
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Guess we will see

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Old
07-10-2012, 12:31 AM
  #862
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Originally Posted by Broadway Brad View Post
As do I. I don't want Boyle on the 3rd line by any stretch, but without another signing, he will be. If he's on the 4th line, he's probably going to play wing because Halpern is better at faceoffs. I know he's not a wing, but he'll be better there than Rupp or Asham.
Unless its dubi boyle and miller. Iwill do this in a blink of an eye

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07-10-2012, 12:31 AM
  #863
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
If they give up one for nash, you're still left with Boyle in the top 9, as you're just swapping ANisimov or Dubinsky's spot for Nash's spot...

Until Gaborik comes back I don't see a scenario other than Doan being signed where Boyle is the 4th line center. And let's be honest, by the time Gaborik is back, the odds of everyone else in the top 9 isn't great.
Agreed on your 2nd point. Until Gaborik comes back, I think signing a top 9 winger would be the only thing to push Boyle to the 4th line. I really wish we had signed Brad Boyes. Peter Mueller would be really nice. Mueller-Anisimov-Pyatt and then Hagelin-Anisimov-Mueller when Gaborik comes back would be great.

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07-10-2012, 12:32 AM
  #864
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Unless its dubi boyle and miller. Iwill do this in a blink of an eye
Agreed. Dubinsky and Boyle are both overpaid for what they do. Losing Miller would hurt, but we're getting a 30 goal scorer. That said, I doubt Boyle is getting traded.

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07-10-2012, 12:33 AM
  #865
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Curious. Where would boyle slot on jackets?

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07-10-2012, 12:35 AM
  #866
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If Stralman played the right side "pretty much" the entire season, how did Del Zotto average 22 minutes a game? Once Staal was about two weeks into being back he was moved up to the second pair and off of the third pair with Bickel...they split time there,and neither were effective. It's VERY wishful thinking if you really think we can go far with either one of them on the right side on the second pair, especially from the start.

In the playoffs Torts bounced Del Zotto and Stralman back and forth as the 2nd right defenseman because neither were comfortable there. I'm not pulling this out of thin air. Bickel was not our only problem defensively, and was not the only reason Girardi pushed 25 to 30 minutes a game every night.

Handedness and position preference are so overlooked on defense by the fans. You play on the natural side all career and then people seem to think it's no different to flip onto the other side. They do the same thing with forwards when they make their hypothetical lineups.
I was just pointing out that Stralman played the right side his whole time here. He never played the left side last season(your original post seemed to imply he had time on the left side last season). I thought he was serviceable, certainly not awful. His biggest issue was his outside gap control, and watching cherry pickers.

Outside of a couple of gaffs, he was largely solid. Made good plays in the corners, good at using his mobility to get pucks out of harms way.

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07-10-2012, 12:37 AM
  #867
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
If Stralman played the right side "pretty much" the entire season, how did Del Zotto average 22 minutes a game? Once Staal was about two weeks into being back he was moved up to the second pair and off of the third pair with Bickel...they split time there,and neither were effective. It's VERY wishful thinking if you really think we can go far with either one of them on the right side on the second pair, especially from the start.

In the playoffs Torts bounced Del Zotto and Stralman back and forth as the 2nd right defenseman because neither were comfortable there. I'm not pulling this out of thin air. Bickel was not our only problem defensively, and was not the only reason Girardi pushed 25 to 30 minutes a game every night.

Handedness and position preference are so overlooked on defense by the fans. You play on the natural side all career and then people seem to think it's no different to flip onto the other side. They do the same thing with forwards when they make their hypothetical lineups.
I see this a little differently. Stralman started the playoffs as Del Zotto's partner but as things progressed it was obvious that Stall should be getting more ice. Stralman was the logical choice to pair with Staal but that left MDZ without the minutes he should be getting. MDZ struggled on the right side. I pointed out a few times in the playoffs that MDZ's troubles (which weren't that bad until the third round) were partly attributable to coaching - -being paired with Bickel and playing the right side. Go back and read the 2nd round threads and people were signing MDZ's praises. You are right that defensemen need to stay on their natural side. I would however point out that 2/3rds of the d-men in the league are left handed so there are more than a few playing the right side. The bottom line is that having only five defensemen you could count on in a playoff game proved to be a real problem.

To your first point, I don't believe you are close to correct. Stralman played the right side the entire season. MDZ was paired with Sauer until he was hurt and then Stralman slid in next to him. Not exclusively but for the most part. Staal played mostly with Bickel until the playoffs and his minutes were well below what he logged in the playoffs.


Last edited by bobbop: 07-10-2012 at 12:51 AM.
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07-10-2012, 12:42 AM
  #868
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
I see this a little differently. Stralman started the playoffs as Del Zotto's partner but as things progressed it was obvious that Stall should be getting more ice. Stralman was the logical choice to pair with Staal but that left MDZ without the minutes he should be getting. MDZ struggled on the right side. I pointed out a few times in the playoffs that MDZ's troubles (which weren't that bad until the third round) were partly attributable to coaching - -being paired with Bickel and playing the right side. Go back and read the 2nd round threads and people were signing MDZ's praises. You are right that defensemen need to stay on their natural side. would however point out that 2/3rds of the d-men in the league are left handed so there are more than a few playing the right side. The bottom line is that having only five defensemen you could count on in a playoff game proved to be a real problem.
Wouldnt yandle fit thisteam better. Rhd, good caphit, costsless to aquirer than weber

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07-10-2012, 12:52 AM
  #869
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We need more depth on D.

At the moment, we're either trusting Erixon to win a spot out of camp (not a given) or for Sauer to be healthy (less of a given).

We can't go into training camp with the strong possibility that Bickel is our 6th defenseman.

Who's still available via free agency? Preferably under $2 mil and serviceable.

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07-10-2012, 12:52 AM
  #870
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Wouldnt yandle fit thisteam better. Rhd, good caphit, costsless to aquirer than weber
No. Yandle is left handed. And he's a mess when he doesn't play with a natural righthander. Not sure why.

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07-10-2012, 12:52 AM
  #871
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Twitter.com/GregCaggiano

Guess we will see
You know your stuff, but does that guy have any credibility? Seems like he might but then again seems like he may just be in it for the attention.

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07-10-2012, 12:53 AM
  #872
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We need more depth on D.

At the moment, we're either trusting Erixon to win a spot out of camp (not a given) or for Sauer to be healthy (less of a given).

We can't go into training camp with the strong possibility that Bickel is our 6th defenseman.

Who's still available via free agency? Preferably under $2 mil and serviceable.
Some guy named Rozsival comes to mind.

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07-10-2012, 12:55 AM
  #873
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You know your stuff, but does that guy have any credibility? Seems like he might but then again seems like he may just be in it for the attention.
We will know tomorrow. If it turns out to be true, the guy just made a name for himself as a freelancer.

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07-10-2012, 12:56 AM
  #874
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You know your stuff, but does that guy have any credibility? Seems like he might but then again seems like he may just be in it for the attention.
I have no idea who this guy is, never heard of him. Just posting the twitter handle for those that asked/wanted to see. I take this with a grain of salt. Hard to believe THIS guy of all people would be the one to break the news unless he knows a player being dealt personally.

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07-10-2012, 12:57 AM
  #875
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We will know tomorrow. If it turns out to be true, the guy just made a name for himself as a freelancer.
Indeed. Which is part of why I think he might not be making it up. Then again some people think any attention is good attention. Personally if I was a freelance writer I wouldn't put out ******** rumors because I'd want a real job at some point.

Quote:
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I have no idea who this guy is, never heard of him. Just posting the twitter handle for those that asked/wanted to see. I take this with a grain of salt. Hard to believe THIS guy of all people would be the one to break the news unless he knows a player being dealt personally.
Absolutely agree. I take everything with a grain of salt. Just curious if anyone had heard of him before.

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