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Montreal: worst in the NHL for taxes deducted.

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07-09-2012, 09:46 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
great post

further to this, it's not just about the advantages that they prefer elsewhere; it's about aspects that they perceive as negative and quite frankly fear. ie: FRENCH.

Without going into the french debate let's put ourselves in the average players shoes. Most of them are more closer to being classified as simple minded as they would be of the type that want to embrace ''the challenge'' of a foreign culture, and pressure of learning a 2nd languages (even if they don't try to).

There's a stigma about Montreal and it's time some posters put themselves in players shoes and accept this - this city, and this province, from a simplified anglophones perspective, is negatively challenging.

Of course when they have no choice but to live here, because they were drafted, or traded, they'll likely come to adapt, and hopefully appreciate Montreal.

In a nutshell - I think language is a bigger issue to them than Taxes
There is also the stress of having to deal with being heckled while you walk the streets and go to the attractions; this is a psychological cost. The players are not tourists. They're here for a job. Some players won't have their routines affected. Others will.

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07-09-2012, 10:51 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/343499.html

Basically a study compared players making 2 million, 4 million and 7 million $ per season.

The most taxed players at all three levels: the Habs

The least taxed players: the ones playing in Florida, Nashville and Dallas.


So now, hopefully, some will understand why we overpay our players to compensate somehow for the lost taxes dollars.
According to the information I got from my accountant when I moved to Quebec is that taxation is based on your location of primary residence at the end of the fiscal year. While most players live in Quebec their primary residence is elsewhere, which means they would get most of these taxes back at tax time.

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07-10-2012, 12:11 AM
  #78
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Maybe the money should be tax free ? But then like revenue QC take care of it or something ?


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07-10-2012, 05:56 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
great post

further to this, it's not just about the advantages that they prefer elsewhere; it's about aspects that they perceive as negative and quite frankly fear. ie: FRENCH.

Without going into the french debate let's put ourselves in the average players shoes. Most of them are more closer to being classified as simple minded as they would be of the type that want to embrace ''the challenge'' of a foreign culture, and pressure of learning a 2nd languages (even if they don't try to).

There's a stigma about Montreal and it's time some posters put themselves in players shoes and accept this - this city, and this province, from a simplified anglophones perspective, is negatively challenging.

Of course when they have no choice but to live here, because they were drafted, or traded, they'll likely come to adapt, and hopefully appreciate Montreal.

In a nutshell - I think language is a bigger issue to them than Taxes
Ya, God knows you can't get by speaking English over here. It's way too difficult..

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07-10-2012, 07:09 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Ya, God knows you can't get by speaking English over here. It's way too difficult..
You really think all these players know this, though?

When you hear about all these protests because the head coach isn't French, do you really think Anglophone players are like "Hmm, Montreal sounds like a really nice place to go play!".

Regarding the taxation issue, I'll assume those numbers are accurate. I'm actually surprised, my impression was that the divide was much greater than that.

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07-10-2012, 07:54 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by fufonzo View Post
You really think all these players know this, though?

When you hear about all these protests because the head coach isn't French, do you really think Anglophone players are like "Hmm, Montreal sounds like a really nice place to go play!".

Regarding the taxation issue, I'll assume those numbers are accurate. I'm actually surprised, my impression was that the divide was much greater than that.
Would you move to a city without learning a bit about it first? My guess is no.
Also, this is the NHL, players are usually brought here so they can visit the city. One visit is all it takes to realize you can easily get by in English.

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07-10-2012, 07:55 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Blame it on PK View Post
There is also the stress of having to deal with being heckled while you walk the streets and go to the attractions; this is a psychological cost. The players are not tourists. They're here for a job. Some players won't have their routines affected. Others will.
I don't recall stories of people heckling players in the streets..

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07-10-2012, 08:03 AM
  #83
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Gotta generate revenue from somewhere for the poor dear little students boo hooing

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07-10-2012, 08:08 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Athlétique_Canadien View Post
Gotta generate revenue from somewhere for the poor dear little students boo hooing
You mean to pay protection money to the mafia.

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07-10-2012, 08:50 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Athlétique_Canadien View Post
Gotta generate revenue from somewhere for the poor dear little students boo hooing
God forbid that someone "earning" 1,000,000 to 7,000,000 $$$ per year pay 10% more in taxes than the NHL average.

They have dogs to feed you know...

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07-10-2012, 08:52 AM
  #86
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Taxes and stories like these :

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/07...quebec-police/

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...183141064.html

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07-10-2012, 09:09 AM
  #87
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All that said we shouldn't lose track of the big picture.

RDS is owned by the Peladeau family, who inherited their money.

This story is likely just propaganda to encourage the population to support lower taxes on rich people.

As pointed out by another poster, the study overestimates the tax difference due to residency rules. Further, if the Habs were to put together a winning team, and get rid of some of their dead wood taking up cap space, they would be able to sign premier free agents.

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Old
07-10-2012, 09:26 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fufonzo View Post
You really think all these players know this, though?

When you hear about all these protests because the head coach isn't French, do you really think Anglophone players are like "Hmm, Montreal sounds like a really nice place to go play!".

Regarding the taxation issue, I'll assume those numbers are accurate. I'm actually surprised, my impression was that the divide was much greater than that.
All you need to do is walk around downtown Montreal for 15 minutes to realize that you can get by with English and you aren't going to be harassed for speaking it.

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07-10-2012, 09:29 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gillyguzzler View Post
The comments section will tell you alot more about english canadians than it will about Québécois. For all the talk about us "making life difficult" for anglophones, I've never seen here anything as vile as the comments sections on the national post or cbc.ca for any story that involves Québec. The problem is not us, it's you.

And I'm sure that many canadian an american players share these idiotic views, unfortunately...

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07-10-2012, 09:32 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
All that said we shouldn't lose track of the big picture.

RDS is owned by the Peladeau family, who inherited their money.

This story is likely just propaganda to encourage the population to support lower taxes on rich people.

As pointed out by another poster, the study overestimates the tax difference due to residency rules. Further, if the Habs were to put together a winning team, and get rid of some of their dead wood taking up cap space, they would be able to sign premier free agents.
Not at all. RDS is owned by Bell.

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07-10-2012, 09:50 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
All that said we shouldn't lose track of the big picture.

RDS is owned by the Peladeau family, who inherited their money.

This story is likely just propaganda to encourage the population to support lower taxes on rich people.

As pointed out by another poster, the study overestimates the tax difference due to residency rules. Further, if the Habs were to put together a winning team, and get rid of some of their dead wood taking up cap space, they would be able to sign premier free agents.
I think you're the one imaginating some big picture.

First off, RDS is owned by CTV Specialty Television Inc. That is 80% Bell and 20% ESPN. Peladeau owns TVA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9seau_des_sports

Second, there is no propaganda. This article just wants to show the tax rate in every NHL city. It has no political agenda whatsoever.

I'm guessing you're a conspiracy junkie.

As for the residency rules, I don't think players are excluded.
http://www.revenuquebec.ca/en/citoye...-et-liens.aspx
I'm pretty sure they all have homes, some live with their families, have bank accounts, etc..So, unless they sign a one year deal and then bounce out, I'm pretty sure most become Qc residents.

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07-10-2012, 09:55 AM
  #92
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That's one of the reasons the cash strapped and almost bankrupt Jagr signed in Dallas!

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07-10-2012, 10:11 AM
  #93
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Beyond the tax debate, the language debate, etc. one reason that players don't want to come here is that they can't live an "ordinary" life in Montreal whereas in (insert American city here), they can.

They can't go out to dinner with their family without being approached by a well meaning fan who asks for an autograph or picture. In many cities they can go out and just enjoy each others company and not be recognized.

THAT is a big reason why some do not want to sign here.

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07-10-2012, 10:33 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Not The One View Post
The comments section will tell you alot more about english canadians than it will about Québécois. For all the talk about us "making life difficult" for anglophones, I've never seen here anything as vile as the comments sections on the national post or cbc.ca for any story that involves Québec. The problem is not us, it's you.

And I'm sure that many canadian an american players share these idiotic views, unfortunately...
me? But I'm a French Canadian. Yes, most of English Canada is ignorant of the realities of Quebec. What they see and read on the news is a cyclist raising money for Cancer being charged in Quebec and then having his RV vandalized and the Canadian flags removed by French Quebec teenagers.

Isolated incident? sure
Headline news? unfortunately yes and that's what the rest of Canada sees and base their opinion of you fine folks on.
NHL players hear about this nonsense : sure

Your reaction? Not our fault, it's you.

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07-10-2012, 10:34 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I think you're the one imaginating some big picture.

First off, RDS is owned by CTV Specialty Television Inc. That is 80% Bell and 20% ESPN. Peladeau owns TVA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9seau_des_sports

Second, there is no propaganda. This article just wants to show the tax rate in every NHL city. It has no political agenda whatsoever.

I'm guessing you're a conspiracy junkie.

As for the residency rules, I don't think players are excluded.
http://www.revenuquebec.ca/en/citoye...-et-liens.aspx
I'm pretty sure they all have homes, some live with their families, have bank accounts, etc..So, unless they sign a one year deal and then bounce out, I'm pretty sure most become Qc residents.
Maybe you're a bit slow.

First, it was already stated earlier in this thread that many of the players don't take residency here.

Second, I was wrong about RDS' owners, but actually the argument is just as valid if RDS is owned by Bell than if it's owned by Peladeau.

Finally, in the real world, conspiracies happen. Maybe today you can check any news site and find out about the LIBOR scandal, a textbook example of a "conspiracy theory", and in this case everybody found out about it.

ETA: "Imaginating" is not a word.

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07-10-2012, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by HarryHabs View Post
Not at all. RDS is owned by Bell.
To reiterate, the argument is just as valid if RDS is owned by Bell than if its owned by Peladeau.

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07-10-2012, 10:49 AM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
All that said we shouldn't lose track of the big picture.

RDS is owned by the Peladeau family, who inherited their money.

This story is likely just propaganda to encourage the population to support lower taxes on rich people.

As pointed out by another poster, the study overestimates the tax difference due to residency rules. Further, if the Habs were to put together a winning team, and get rid of some of their dead wood taking up cap space, they would be able to sign premier free agents.
WOW !

RDS is owned by BELL MEDIA, the same owner as TSN.

+ To all the posters thinking the players are not coming because of language issues.... Wake up ! You can live your WHOLE LIFE in Montreal without speaking a single word of French.

NOBODY ever demanded that a payer learn to speak FRENCH ! BUT... Francophone fans would love their CAPTAIN and HEADCOACH to be able to speak the language. Tons of players have played signiificant times in Montreal without ever saying a single word in French and NO ONE ever complained.

Francophones fans are so open that they accept since years to fill the Bell Centre and pay big bucs EVEN if the team has only ONE FULL-TIME French-speaking PLAYER.


So, once again STICK to HOCKEY !

get your facts straight before posting...


Last edited by habitue*: 07-10-2012 at 11:02 AM.
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07-10-2012, 11:10 AM
  #98
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I have family in Dallas. Texas is an authoritarian state with cruel and corrupt government, sprawled out concrete cities like Houston and Dallas and a harsh climate.

I'm not talking about the people which are obviously not as ignorant or racist as they're portrayed in the media. There are good people everywhere, it's like saying "yeah I know that chick's ugly but she's really nice" - being nice isn't a draw, it's a prerequisite.

Montreal also has phenomenal food, a great mix of cultures, much more decent weather and it's the best hockey market in the world. When the organization keeps winning and has attractive hockey, we can draw all sorts of players.

In my opinion, in terms of overall culture vs. safety vs. lifestyle vs. weather vs. "sexyness" Montreal is #2 in North America behind NYC.
I love posts like this. In an effort to disparage a state/region for their ignorance, their prejudice and lack of tolerance.....you display your ignorance, your prejudice and your lack of tolerance that is worse than what you are accusing others of. The problem in Monteal is not the taxes. No. It is the culture of ineptitude from ownership/management that we have had to witness for the last decade. It is Molson's charge to change this culture of the Canadiens franchise. It is not a fault of the city of Montreal, nor the province of Quebec and the people living here, nor the taxes that they pay.

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07-10-2012, 11:16 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Maybe you're a bit slow.

First, it was already stated earlier in this thread that many of the players don't take residency here.

Second, I was wrong about RDS' owners, but actually the argument is just as valid if RDS is owned by Bell than if it's owned by Peladeau.

Finally, in the real world, conspiracies happen. Maybe today you can check any news site and find out about the LIBOR scandal, a textbook example of a "conspiracy theory", and in this case everybody found out about it.

ETA: "Imaginating" is not a word.
Did you read the link or are you plain stubborn?
According to REVENU QUEBEC, if you have enough Qc ties, then you will be considered as a Qc resident for income tax purposes.
What are Qc ties? Having a home, bringing in other people such as family members from other countries to live here (like your kids, wife, etc..), having a Qc driver's license, medicare, buying a car, having a bank account, etc..
If you have enough ties, they will consider you a Qc resident, therefore you will be treated as any other resident in terms of income tax.
So essentially, you have no freaking idea who will be considered a resident or not. Even if they don't purchase a house, they can still be considered residents.

Thought it was pretty clear.

Second, it's not because conspiracies happen that there is one here. Let it go, you're making yourself look bad. There is no political agenda to lower taxes for the rich behind this article, NONE.

Finally, english is my third language, I've been up since 5:30 this morning with little sleep. ''Imagining'' was the proper way to write it, but I didn't need your help, and you understood the point, so next time don't be such a nerd.

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Old
07-10-2012, 11:23 AM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
WOW !

RDS is owned by BELL MEDIA, the same owner as TSN.

+ To all the posters thinking the players are not coming because of language issues.... Wake up ! You can live your WHOLE LIFE in Montreal without speaking a single word of French.

NOBODY ever demanded that a payer learn to speak FRENCH ! BUT... Francophone fans would love their CAPTAIN and HEADCOACH to be able to speak the language. Tons of players have played signiificant times in Montreal without ever saying a single word in French and NO ONE ever complained.

Francophones fans are so open that they accept since years to fill the Bell Centre and pay big bucs EVEN if the team has only ONE FULL-TIME French-speaking PLAYER.


So, once again STICK to HOCKEY !

get your facts straight before posting...
Understand that some UFA players are outsiders with very little or info on how Montreal is and likely have very connections that also have little experience with Montreal. So when they see reports of protesting an anglo head coach, no one is there with the info to correct their perception formed after seeing that.

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