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Breaking news: insurance companies will no longer cover the Blue Jays...

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Old
07-09-2012, 06:40 PM
  #76
The Nemesis
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You'd think with the amount of money teams pay their players, having a medical study evaluate pitching mechanics would be a no-brainer.
You'd think so. But there was an ESPN piece earlier this year about the amount of pitching injuries and the teams' reluctance to really look long and hard at potential causes. A lot of pitching coaches have this attitude of "injuries happen, it's not my problem, I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing." There's this prevailing thought among coaches that they're just going to passively accept guys getting hurt as part of the game and not address it because it looks bad on them if poor mechanics or instructional flaws are found to be the cause.

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07-09-2012, 06:55 PM
  #77
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You'd think so. But there was an ESPN piece earlier this year about the amount of pitching injuries and the teams' reluctance to really look long and hard at potential causes. A lot of pitching coaches have this attitude of "injuries happen, it's not my problem, I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing." There's this prevailing thought among coaches that they're just going to passively accept guys getting hurt as part of the game and not address it because it looks bad on them if poor mechanics or instructional flaws are found to be the cause.
That's ridiculous, but I can see the stubborn attitude overriding logic, especially in sports. But hey, it could just take one team fed up with injuries to change that.

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07-09-2012, 07:04 PM
  #78
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Hopefully Bautista has a better pitcher today.

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Old
07-09-2012, 07:06 PM
  #79
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That's ridiculous, but I can see the stubborn attitude overriding logic, especially in sports. But hey, it could just take one team fed up with injuries to change that.
I'll have to see if I can dig up the links to the story. I'm almost positive I posted them here a while back.

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07-09-2012, 07:14 PM
  #80
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found it:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/77...-espn-magazine

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07-09-2012, 07:14 PM
  #81
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I'll have to see if I can dig up the links to the story. I'm almost positive I posted them here a while back.
Jeff Blair was today talking about Billy Beane and that he thinks preventing injuries is the next "moneyball" efficiency.

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07-09-2012, 07:17 PM
  #82
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Jeff Blair was today talking about Billy Beane and that he thinks preventing injuries is the next "moneyball" efficiency.
but moneyball is about taking walks and hitting home runs!


makes sense though. statistical analysis and depth of analysis/observation is so prevalent now that they pretty much have to think outside the box again to find another edge.

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07-09-2012, 07:24 PM
  #83
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but moneyball is about taking walks and hitting home runs!


makes sense though. statistical analysis and depth of analysis/observation is so prevalent now that they pretty much have to think outside the box again to find another edge.
http://www.mediabistro.com/prnewser/...-hiring_b37885

As for his forecast regarding using data in sports, Beane said, “the biggest indicator now for sports teams is whether the players stay healthy, and that’s the one area we haven’t figured out.”

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07-09-2012, 07:31 PM
  #84
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Looks like Jose has gotten into his rhythm.

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07-09-2012, 07:33 PM
  #85
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Ends at 11, great job Jose.

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07-09-2012, 07:42 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by captn View Post
http://www.mediabistro.com/prnewser/...-hiring_b37885

As for his forecast regarding using data in sports, Beane said, “the biggest indicator now for sports teams is whether the players stay healthy, and that’s the one area we haven’t figured out.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post

Thanks for those links, very interesting. Seems like an obvious thing to study when some teams are dishing out tens to hundreds of millions of dollars to these players. Sometimes the traditions and "it's always been that way" attitude of baseball is pretty ridiculous. This is one of those cases. Surely some of these injuries can be prevented with better mechanics, it's just a question of what those mechanics are.

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07-09-2012, 07:45 PM
  #87
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future jay with a bad showing in the derby

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Old
07-09-2012, 09:16 PM
  #88
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The Toronto Blue Jays pitching staff continues to be decimated by injuries.

The club announced Monday night that left-handed reliever Luis Perez will miss the rest of the season with a torn ligament in his throwing elbow.

The Jays say Perez will get a second opinion before a course of action is determined, but Tommy John ligament-replacement surgery is often recommended for similar injuries.

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=400277

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Old
07-09-2012, 09:56 PM
  #89
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The Toronto Blue Jays pitching staff continues to be decimated by injuries.

The club announced Monday night that left-handed reliever Luis Perez will miss the rest of the season with a torn ligament in his throwing elbow.

The Jays say Perez will get a second opinion before a course of action is determined, but Tommy John ligament-replacement surgery is often recommended for similar injuries.

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=400277
for **** sakes. Nothing more you can say.

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Old
07-09-2012, 10:20 PM
  #90
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2, possibly 3 (Hutchison) of our pitches need Tommy John surgery. Definitely more than a coincidence now. Didn't McGowan also have TJ a couple years ago?
If he did it was way back when he was young. But Marcum and Listch recently had it.

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07-09-2012, 11:04 PM
  #91
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Jeff Blair was today talking about Billy Beane and that he thinks preventing injuries is the next "moneyball" efficiency.
That's gonna be extremely tough to do.

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Old
07-09-2012, 11:15 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
That's gonna be extremely tough to do.
You're never going to eliminate them completely, obviously, but you can minimize or lessen the risk if you know what mechanics cause them. The only thing stopping them so far has been stubbornness and fear of coaches getting ********.

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07-09-2012, 11:41 PM
  #93
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the jays need to look into why all these guys are getting arm injuries, clearly it isn't a fluke if 3 guys have it in the same year while 1 guy had one in the off season.
this is what destroyed most of the O's pitching depth 2 years ago as a lot of their rookies were being forced into surgeries (matusz to name one) because of hurt arms.
i would hate to see a bunch of our prospects suffer the same fate before they reach the bigs.

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Old
07-09-2012, 11:54 PM
  #94
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the jays need to look into why all these guys are getting arm injuries, clearly it isn't a fluke if 3 guys have it in the same year while 1 guy had one in the off season.
this is what destroyed most of the O's pitching depth 2 years ago as a lot of their rookies were being forced into surgeries (matusz to name one) because of hurt arms.
i would hate to see a bunch of our prospects suffer the same fate before they reach the bigs.
I think it is fluke... complete fluke.

The Jays are known to be VERY careful and regimented in how they handle their pitchers... strict innings limits etc.

Its been different things, from oblique to shoulder to elbow, and also relievers and starters. So its really all over the place, no distinct pattern other than pitchers getting hurt in general.

This isn't like the old days of Brad Arnsberg where TJ was expected.

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Old
07-09-2012, 11:55 PM
  #95
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That's gonna be extremely tough to do.
Give it a few years until gene sequencing becomes a little cheaper and more prevalent, and teams will begin to hire genetic counsellors/scientists to analyze prospects' DNA sequence in order to predict how injury prone a player is, and what their strengths/weaknesses are. It sounds like a fantasy, but having read and studied extensively in the field, I can tell you that it's not that far off.

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Old
07-10-2012, 01:23 AM
  #96
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http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/201...ontract_offer/

So AA lied to us in true JP fashion.

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Old
07-10-2012, 07:53 AM
  #97
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Just as a cursory look, I counted each team's current pitcher injuries, only counting arm injuries (ignored Morrow) and the Jays are tied for first with 6 right now (San Diego, A's, and Yankees also up there). The average number of arm injuries per team is 2.93 with a standard deviation of 1.75. So... the Jays are 1.75 standard deviations away from the mean (can reject with 4% confidence that the Blue Jays are statistically significantly different from the mean, though hardly a sample size you use such tests for haha)... They're up there, but not exactly unheard of.

I read AA say they didn't have pitcher arm injuries like this last year, but my memory fails me. Anybody remember what the pitcher arm injuries were like last year?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swervin81 View Post
http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/201...ontract_offer/

So AA lied to us in true JP fashion.
You're going to have to point out the lie to me.

Beltran says they had discussions and that he was not willing to be a DH, but no official offer was made.

AA seems to imply they had discussions with Beltran, but he wouldn't consider being a DH, amid other concerns. Also suggests more years or money wouldn't have alleviated such concerns.

I suppose you could suggest the lie is AA mentions years and money not being enough to lure Beltran (assuming he's only talking about Beltran) into being an AL DH and Beltran says years and money weren't discussed... But that's suggesting:

1) Beltran's memory is perfect and he is being completely truthful
2) AA and Beltran hold the exact same criteria for what constitutes discussing contract terms

The media and (some) fans sure do like to stir up **** haha


Last edited by AlienWorkShop: 07-10-2012 at 08:17 AM.
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Old
07-10-2012, 08:40 AM
  #98
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Blue Jays Report Card: http://www.thestar.com/photoplayer/1224074

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Old
07-10-2012, 08:52 AM
  #99
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Who questions Lawrie's ability at third?

He's, statistically, the best defensive third-baseman in the majors so far this year.

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07-10-2012, 08:59 AM
  #100
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I'm shocked how comfortable Lawrie has looked at 3B. Doubt anyone would've seen this coming. Royals Mike Moustakas has looked really good as well. He was another player like Lawrie that had question marks whether he was going to stick at the position.

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