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Better 2012-2013 - Couturier vs. B. Schenn

View Poll Results: Who do you believe will have a better season?
B. Schenn 51 59.30%
Couturier 35 40.70%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-09-2012, 10:03 PM
  #26
BobbyClarkeFan16
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I think it's going to be Couturier and it won't be close. I look at Couturier and I see someone who is so smart that he can be asked to do anything and he can make it look so easy. His role as the team's checking center last year showed just how versatile and good he really is. Laviolette needed to know he could trust Couturier. Couturier delivered and Laviolette is going to reward him this year. There's talk that Couturier is going to be the starting 2nd line center and he's going to get 1st team PP time. On top of it, Couturier has been working hard at power skating and the word is that he has found a top gear and he's also put on an additional 15 pounds to his frame.

As for Schenn, I like him and I think his brother is going to have a positive impact on him. With that being said, he was given every opportunity to succeed last year (when healthy) and he wasn't that impressive. Couturier had to fight for everything he had. Laviolette is going to reward Sean for his role last year and he's going to make Schenn work a bit. I could see Schenn possibly hitting 45-50 points in a 3rd line spot with Read and Talbot (who the Flyers want playing wing on the 3rd line as they feel he's good for 15 to 20 goals a year).

This is certainly going to be a fun camp to watch. I'm sure all the veterans on the team are looking forward to this "battle" that will take place because I also think both guys are going to push each other real hard.

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Old
07-09-2012, 10:40 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I think it's going to be Couturier and it won't be close. I look at Couturier and I see someone who is so smart that he can be asked to do anything and he can make it look so easy. His role as the team's checking center last year showed just how versatile and good he really is. Laviolette needed to know he could trust Couturier. Couturier delivered and Laviolette is going to reward him this year. There's talk that Couturier is going to be the starting 2nd line center and he's going to get 1st team PP time. On top of it, Couturier has been working hard at power skating and the word is that he has found a top gear and he's also put on an additional 15 pounds to his frame.

As for Schenn, I like him and I think his brother is going to have a positive impact on him. With that being said, he was given every opportunity to succeed last year (when healthy) and he wasn't that impressive. Couturier had to fight for everything he had. Laviolette is going to reward Sean for his role last year and he's going to make Schenn work a bit. I could see Schenn possibly hitting 45-50 points in a 3rd line spot with Read and Talbot (who the Flyers want playing wing on the 3rd line as they feel he's good for 15 to 20 goals a year).

This is certainly going to be a fun camp to watch. I'm sure all the veterans on the team are looking forward to this "battle" that will take place because I also think both guys are going to push each other real hard.

I hope what you say is true if so Couts is gonna be a beast!

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Old
07-09-2012, 10:49 PM
  #28
Haute Couturier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyOnTheSpot View Post
I think this year, Schenn breaks out and surpasses Cooter on the depth charts. I think long term, they'll both have substantial value although a player of Schenn's caliber is typically more appreciated than Cooter's (like M. Richards v. J. Staal, even though they both have tremendous value). I just think Cooter hit his stride faster, but will progress more slowly and never really "breakout" aside from what he did last year, thus peaking later. With Schenn, I expect a bang and a plateau.

I do think they'll both be great players.

Now the real question is, can either play wing? I'd hate to see one of them have to go.
You are underestimating Couturier (and Staal). I think Couturier's offensive potential is just as high as Schenn's, but he will be the better all around player.

Brayden Schenn:
17 year old season - 1.26 ppg
18 year old season - 1.68 ppg

Sean Couturier:
17 year old season - 1.41 ppg
18 year old season - 1.66 ppg


The only way I see Schenn surpassing him is because Laviolette seems to have Couturier pegged strictly as a defensive forward while Schenn is allowed to play an offensive role.

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Old
07-09-2012, 10:51 PM
  #29
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these two especially make me happy we didn't make any stupid trades this summer. patience is not something the flyers or fans have but i know what holmgren did last summer was the best thing for this team. all that crap is gonna come to fruition this season. couturier, schenn, simmonds, and voracek are whats up this year. gonna be a good 2012/2013 season.

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Old
07-09-2012, 10:57 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
You are underestimating Couturier (and Staal). I think Couturier's offensive potential is just as high as Schenn's, but he will be the better all around player.

Brayden Schenn:
17 year old season - 1.26 ppg
18 year old season - 1.68 ppg

Sean Couturier:
17 year old season - 1.41 ppg
18 year old season - 1.66 ppg


The only way I see Schenn surpassing him is because Laviolette seems to have Couturier pegged strictly as a defensive forward while Schenn is allowed to play an offensive role.
Believe it or not, I'm really not. I either didn't convey my message properly or you just misunderstood me. I'm just saying a player like Schenn is typically held in a higher regard than a player like Cooter. Like I said, M. Richards is typically regarded as better than J. Staal because Staal's value is under-appreciated because he plays more of a defensive game, even though he has offensive prowess.

IMO, Cooter will be better than Schenn overall, and I think he is right now. My only point was that Schenn will peak faster and will be appreciated faster, since his value will be more visual to the average fan and idiot in the news.

I'll end with this. If Schenn breaks out this year offensively and puts up 50-60 and Cooter repeats this year with a little upswing, Schenn will be regarded as better. I would still value Cooter as the better player overall.

If i'm not making sense and am just rambling at this point, I think Cooter is better, but Schenn will break out more this year, if that makes any sense. It's like Schenn goes from an overall of like 20-50, while Cooter goes 50-60...Schenn's breakout will be heralded more but Cooter will be better still.

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07-09-2012, 11:15 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
The only way I see Schenn surpassing him is because Laviolette seems to have Couturier pegged strictly as a defensive forward while Schenn is allowed to play an offensive role.
I think you're misreading the situation a bit. On a team without very many good defensive forwards, Couturier was forced into that role as the best of a thin bunch. As an 18 year old, you have to protect his minutes if you want to preserve him over a full season. I thought, given the circumstances that Couturier was appropriately managed...

The disservice so far is that the Flyers haven't brought in a 4th line center that can take some of those defensive minutes that Couturier was forced into before. Patrice Bergeron is where you want Couturier to get to... premiere defensive minutes, second unit power play time, and about 18.5 minutes a game on the ice. Too much to expect that at 18 or 19 (Bergeron was getting 16 or so minutes at 18), but no reason he can't pick up a minute or 2 ES and PP time per game this year to get his game total up near 16-17 minutes per game.

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07-09-2012, 11:26 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyOnTheSpot View Post
Now the real question is, can either play wing? I'd hate to see one of them have to go.
Schenn can play wing. He played alongside G and Hartnell when Jags was injured and he looked good.

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Old
07-10-2012, 12:37 AM
  #33
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I thought I'd be in the minority by picking Schenn. Guess not.

He was considered the best prospect in the world before last season, was he not? I'm sure there were ample reasons, and we saw flashes of a really good player in the playoffs. Being healthy and going through a regular camp and preseason could make a huge difference for him.

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Old
07-10-2012, 02:37 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
i think Cooter..

Schenn seems likely to be reinjured alot again. he just strikes me as one of those guys whos made of glass..

hope he proves me wrong thou.
Schenn isn't as fragile as you think. That said, Cooter is made entirely from nails. like when he took that puck to the ear o_0

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Old
07-10-2012, 04:26 AM
  #35
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Do you guys think Couturier would ever get PP time?

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Old
07-10-2012, 06:35 AM
  #36
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For me this is a win, win situation for the Flyers. I voted for Schenn. Guys with that talent and grit get me jacked up. Once he fills out he will be one mean hombre. Those hits show you his strength in his lower body. In the long run Sean may very well turn out to be the player who puts up more points and be just as important to the team as Brayden, But for me, I take the talent that has that attitude 1st. They both are winners and they are ours!!

GO FLYERS!

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07-10-2012, 06:43 AM
  #37
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Both players will be beasts when they fill out their frame.

I see Schenn being one of those thick bodied guys when he matures. About 6-1 210. Built like a tank. You already seen the preview of this when Penguins were bouncing off of him.

Couturier while he isn't as physical as Schenn, it doesn't mean he won't commit to using his body. He was throwing his weight around in the playoffs. When he grows into his 6-4 frame he will be knocking guys around as well.

Homer needs to hold onto these guys and let them grow along with Giroux. I hope they move Schenn permanently to the wing. I believe he looks better a wing then center. Very strong along the boards.

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07-10-2012, 07:41 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RevUpThoseGolfCarts View Post
Do you guys think Couturier would ever get PP time?
Definitely. I see him centering the second power play until with increased regularity over his career. Perhaps only occasionally this year as his offensive game matures and adapts to the NHL game, but certainly more and more over the next 3 years.

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07-10-2012, 08:03 AM
  #39
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Tough call but I'd say Schenn, long term Coots will be more of a complete player, hope to see both of these guys in a Philly uniform for a long time.

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07-10-2012, 09:20 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
i think Cooter..

Schenn seems likely to be reinjured alot again. he just strikes me as one of those guys whos made of glass..

hope he proves me wrong thou.
I don't think Schenn is made of glass, but he plays with a sort of recklessness that is both fun to watch and also susceptible to causing injury. Schenn hits a lot more than Couturier, so I have a feeling he will always be dealing with some sort of injuries.

I also voted for Couturier because I just see "something" in him that I don't see in Schenn. I have this nagging feeling that Schenn will never live up to the billing he's received as one of the league's highest-rated prospects. I am hoping that the addition of his brother with spark him (and Luke, as well) to jump to another level this year. Personally, I really like Brayden, so I am hoping that he breaks out this year and dispells this doubt I have. I do wish he were lined up at C rather than on the wing, but I guess Briere is going to be occupying that #2C slot until his contract runs out. I feel like Schenn's full potential won't be realized in the less-demanding winger position.

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Old
07-10-2012, 09:44 AM
  #41
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I can tell you a few things

A) I can't ****ing wait to see the Schenn brothers knocking people out of games

B) Couts will put up better numbers simply because IMO he has more skill, outside of his defensive abilities this guy is a magician with the puck, he just hasn't be able to exploit it yet in the bigs.

C) Schenn will be the Mike Richards type, he will score bigger goals than Couts, probably will take more spotlight from him even though Couts might put up better numbers


Fact is we have two unreal guys who will definitely have some major impact over the next few years. If we keep Laughton I think you add another guy in the mix who is similar to these two. Which when you think of it is pretty unreal

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07-10-2012, 09:53 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Codith View Post
I can tell you a few things

A) I can't ****ing wait to see the Schenn brothers knocking people out of games

B) Couts will put up better numbers simply because IMO he has more skill, outside of his defensive abilities this guy is a magician with the puck, he just hasn't be able to exploit it yet in the bigs.

C) Schenn will be the Mike Richards type, he will score bigger goals than Couts, probably will take more spotlight from him even though Couts might put up better numbers


Fact is we have two unreal guys who will definitely have some major impact over the next few years. If we keep Laughton I think you add another guy in the mix who is similar to these two. Which when you think of it is pretty unreal
I think this is a pretty fair assessment (assuming they progress according to their projections). I don't think Laughton really will fit on this team unless he or someone else is moved to wing. My guess is someone gets moved to wing and then when Briere's contract is up Laughton gets moved up to the big club and takes on third line duties, likely with Couturier as a 2c and Schenn playing on Giroux's wing on the top line. Pure speculation, but that is how I see it going down.

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07-10-2012, 10:10 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
Long term, it's definitely harder to project, so let's speculate on who has the better season for 2012-2013.

Case for B. Schenn:
Older, more seasoned player having gone through a more natural progression to the NHL. Has a more physically appropriate build for the NHL right now. Solid 2-way game. Will likely get more offensive opportunities playing on the second line than Couturier in 2012-2013. Looked like one of the best players on the ice in the playoffs.

Case for Couturier:
All-world defensive talent. Developing offensive game. No matter whether he struggles offensively or not, he will continue to log critical minutes due to being the best defensive forward on the team. Played more in 2011-2012.

My thoughts:
For 2012-2013, I predict a huge B. Schenn breakout (20+ goals, 55+ points). I see a more steady improvement from the younger Couturier (perhaps 15-18 goals, 35 points) while continuing to be a defensive presence. I suspect that while he'll be good defensively, the league will have enough tape on Couturier to force him to up his game a bit defensively.

I would not be surprised to see Schenn on the top line by season's end playing beside Giroux and Hartnell.

Long term, I love what Couturier represents for this franchise and it will be a close call between the 2, but for 2012-2013... I expect great improvement for B. Schenn.

As I read the above, I had to double take that it wasn't my post. Literally, EXACTLY what I believe. Nuff said.

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07-10-2012, 10:34 AM
  #44
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Love both players and glad Holmgren thus far has had the smarts to retain both of them rather than trade one or the other for a more established player like Nash, Ryan or Yandle. Both have a bright future but we shouldn't do what we did with Carter and Richards and put too much pressure on them. They need to grow into their roles and get more support around them. Having said this..if they both remain healthy I think they will surpass Carter's and Richard's impact....also I think both will continue to show improvement in their games this upcoming season. Schenn showed a lot in the playoffs...he seemed to take the next step and of course what Couturier did against Malkin was a thing of beauty...

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Old
07-10-2012, 10:52 AM
  #45
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homer just seems to love adding guys with higher hockey IQ's

Started with Richards, then Giroux, now with Couts/Schenn/Laughton

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07-10-2012, 11:19 AM
  #46
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I see it going this way.

Schenn takes the 2nd centre slot and makes it his own on a line with Simmonds and Read. He scored 9 points in 11 games during the play-offs. He was a physical beast. It's going to be fun watching the Schenn brothers trying to out-do each other for the biggest hits.

I've never seen someone of Schenn's frame bounce players so easily. It's scary. He looks like Forsberg when he counter hits. Check out the pens games for that. I think (barring an injury season) than Schenn is a lock for 50 points, while showing us exactly why we traded Richards.

Cooter on the other hand, I feel will still be a PK beast. He has a lethal wrist shot, so much like Sakic. I bet these two guys actually see powerplay time together this year. Especially without Jagr. It's going to be fun to watch. Clearly Cooter is going to be paired up against the best offensive players in the league. So I don't see a huge points jump, just good defensive hockey. 40 points, most of them coming on special teams.

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07-10-2012, 11:26 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
I see it going this way.

Schenn takes the 2nd centre slot and makes it his own on a line with Simmonds and Read. He scored 9 points in 11 games during the play-offs. He was a physical beast. It's going to be fun watching the Schenn brothers trying to out-do each other for the biggest hits.

I've never seen someone of Schenn's frame bounce players so easily. It's scary. He looks like Forsberg when he counter hits. Check out the pens games for that. I think (barring an injury season) than Schenn is a lock for 50 points, while showing us exactly why we traded Richards.

Cooter on the other hand, I feel will still be a PK beast. He has a lethal wrist shot, so much like Sakic. I bet these two guys actually see powerplay time together this year. Especially without Jagr. It's going to be fun to watch. Clearly Cooter is going to be paired up against the best offensive players in the league. So I don't see a huge points jump, just good defensive hockey. 40 points, most of them coming on special teams.
Yeah I wonder what the PP groups will be?

maybe:

Hartnell-Simmonds
Giroux Voracek
Timonen

and
Read-Schenn-Briere
Mezsaros-Coburn/Gus/Gervais

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07-10-2012, 11:36 AM
  #48
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I see them as

Hartnell - Giroux - Briere
Timonen - Voracek

Read - Schenn - Couturier
Mezaros - Gustaffson

With Read, Simmonds and Briere splitting time.

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07-10-2012, 12:17 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
I see them as

Hartnell - Giroux - Briere
Timonen - Voracek


Read - Schenn - Couturier
Mezaros - Gustaffson

With Read, Simmonds and Briere splitting time.
i'd swap out briere for simmonds. Simmer/hartnell was just too much for the opposing teams' defense last year. They offer an insane screen together.

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07-10-2012, 03:07 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
I see them as

Hartnell - Giroux - Briere
Timonen - Voracek

Read - Schenn - Couturier
Mezaros - Gustaffson

With Read, Simmonds and Briere splitting time.
Giroux and Briere do not work well together. Replace with Simmonds.

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