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Could a CFL all star team play in the NFL?

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Old
07-10-2012, 06:57 AM
  #26
TwistedWrister90
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even with canadian rules, an NFL team would beat a CFL team no doubt. some people somehow think that bc a player from the NFL is bigger, that makes them slower or less athletic. not true. NFL players are bigger, faster, and overall better athletes. hence why they're in the NFL.

aren't like half the players in the CFL american anway? learning the rules doesn't seem too difficult and the games really aren't that much different. the worst team in the NFL would beat a CFL all star team even with CFL rules.

also O-lineman in the NFL are huge, but they're still very quick laterally. they have to be when d-ends in the nfl are extremely athletic and quick to the ball after the snap. and i would think an nfl linebacker is more than capable of covering a CFL slotback, which someone questioned earlier in the thread. they'd probably **** their pants if they had to try and catch a pass up the middle with ray lewis coming at them. plus many NFL linebackers are fast and good at coverage.

the CFL is cool and all, but let's not kid ourselves, it's a minor league just like the AHL.

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07-10-2012, 09:23 AM
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A better question would a college all star team beat an NFL team?

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07-10-2012, 09:35 AM
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Ricky Williams didn't make it up here because he's not the right kind of running back for the CFL based on his skill set. Guys like Darren Sproles, Ray Rice, even Reggie Bush would be ridiculous in the CFL.

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07-10-2012, 09:58 AM
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Ricky Williams is a poor example of an NFL player not making it in the CFL.

I think we are all aware of Ricky Williams' fight with depression (ESPN e60 doc), substance abuse and a suspension that led to retirement for one season which led to him studying ancient holistic Indian medicine ( U.S. studies finding about 20% of Ayurvedic treatments contained toxic levels of heavy metals such as lead, mercury and arsenic). Cannot confirm if he was practicing on himself though.....Then another suspension that led him into the CFL in 05-06.

Guess what I am saying is that Ricky was really not in his prime what so ever and was a mess between 04-06.

Now put a healthy Foster, Rice or Lynch in there and watch out!!!


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07-10-2012, 12:07 PM
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I wonder how competitive a CFL team would be against a good SEC/Big 12 team or a college all-star team.. one would suspect that the pros would have the edge especially as they are former DI alumni.. but I'm not sure how they would stack up.

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07-10-2012, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy66 View Post
Ricky Williams is a poor example of an NFL player not making it in the CFL.

I think we are all aware of Ricky Williams' fight with depression (ESPN e60 doc), substance abuse and a suspension that led to retirement for one season which led to him studying ancient holistic Indian medicine ( U.S. studies finding about 20% of Ayurvedic treatments contained toxic levels of heavy metals such as lead, mercury and arsenic). Cannot confirm if he was practicing on himself though.....Then another suspension that led him into the CFL in 05-06.

Guess what I am saying is that Ricky was really not in his prime what so ever and was a mess between 04-06.

Now put a healthy Foster, Rice or Lynch in there and watch out!!!
There are always tons of excuses as to why Ricky didn't dominate, and they're all lame. Someone once tried to tell me that the reason he sucked is because his blocking couldn't keep up with him. The real reason: Ricky's skillsets don't translate to the Canadian game and while his overall skills allowed him to be a good player, he wasn't dominant. Unfortunately, everyone has always said any NFL player could go to the CFL and dominate, so when a high-profile player went there and didn't, people had to scramble to they didn't have egg on their face.

There also would be a ton of NFL QBs who couldn't even make the wide-side throws on a Canadian field. To say the rules and regulations don't make any difference is wrong. Would a best-on-best be anything but an absolute slaughter by the NFL side? Probably not. But nobody's asking that.

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07-10-2012, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
There also would be a ton of NFL QBs who couldn't even make the wide-side throws on a Canadian field.
Such as?

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07-10-2012, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
There also would be a ton of NFL QBs who couldn't even make the wide-side throws on a Canadian field.
You can't possibly be serious.

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07-10-2012, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by JCD View Post
Such as?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
You can't possibly be serious.
Should absolutely not have used the word tons, but there would be a few, especially those in the "former bust" mold. I know people brought up Brady Quinn, how he should go to the CFL and dominate, and he definitely couldn't. Matt Leinart is another. Probably few starters, if any, but a lot of guys who people commonly suggest would dominate the CFL should they go there to resurrect their careers.

Most of the QBs in the CFL have rocket arms, and even those throws can give them fits. It might sound ridiculous, but it's not easy. A lot of people thought Todd Reesing would be a CFL star because he had talent, but was undersized. He barely lasted a few days because he couldn't make that throw. Colt Brennan's another guy many thought would be great in the CFL, but also had trouble with that one.

There's probably a few other nuances of the CFL game that people would say is a non-factor, even though it probably is. Like adjusting to having 12 guys on the field, which is why Vince Ferragamo couldn't cut it in the league period.

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07-10-2012, 08:26 PM
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Most guys that are lacking in arm strength aren't going to make it in either league for a multitude of reasons.

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07-10-2012, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
Most guys that are lacking in arm strength aren't going to make it in either league for a multitude of reasons.
Yet guys like Quinn and Leinart are still in the NFL as back-ups. Neither would likely make it through a CFL training camp.

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07-10-2012, 08:30 PM
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Some of the QB's in the CFL are absolutely dreadful, the NFL QBs would have no problem playing there. For the 5 or 6 starters in the NFL whose skills don't translate, there are backups like Tavaris Jackson, Russell Wilson and others who would easily be very good.

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07-10-2012, 08:42 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
Yet guys like Quinn and Leinart are still in the NFL as back-ups. Neither would likely make it through a CFL training camp.
They'll make more money holding a clipboard in the NFL, plus, they are helped somewhat by being former 1st rounder's, even though they aren't good.

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07-10-2012, 08:45 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
Yet guys like Quinn and Leinart are still in the NFL as back-ups. Neither would likely make it through a CFL training camp.
Neither of them are noodle-armed and I highly disagree. I don't think either would dominate the CFL, but to suggest they wouldn't even be back-ups in Canada...I'm not buying that at all.

A lot of why players who people say are going to dominate in the CFL and then don't is the same reason why established NHLers don't go down to the AHL and set scoring records...the motivation level just isn't going to be the same for these guys.

These guys also have no reason to jump to the CFL to try to set records anyway...why be a starter in the CFL making a tiny fraction of what you can make to hold a clipboard in the NFL? The CFLers who do jump to the NFL tend to do so in minor roles...at vastly improved salaries.

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07-11-2012, 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
Neither of them are noodle-armed and I highly disagree. I don't think either would dominate the CFL, but to suggest they wouldn't even be back-ups in Canada...I'm not buying that at all.

A lot of why players who people say are going to dominate in the CFL and then don't is the same reason why established NHLers don't go down to the AHL and set scoring records...the motivation level just isn't going to be the same for these guys.

These guys also have no reason to jump to the CFL to try to set records anyway...why be a starter in the CFL making a tiny fraction of what you can make to hold a clipboard in the NFL? The CFLers who do jump to the NFL tend to do so in minor roles...at vastly improved salaries.
Obviously they wouldn't go, but I'm saying if they did, the results would be very surprising to some.

I'd also love to hear what your definition of tiny fraction is.

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07-11-2012, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by m9 View Post
Some of the QB's in the CFL are absolutely dreadful, the NFL QBs would have no problem playing there. For the 5 or 6 starters in the NFL whose skills don't translate, there are backups like Tavaris Jackson, Russell Wilson and others who would easily be very good.
Possibly, but a lot of those same things were said about Cleo Lemon, and look how that turned out.

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07-11-2012, 02:24 AM
  #42
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In a word - no.

In two words - no no.

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07-11-2012, 02:35 AM
  #43
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I wonder how competitive a CFL team would be against a good SEC/Big 12 team or a college all-star team.. one would suspect that the pros would have the edge especially as they are former DI alumni.. but I'm not sure how they would stack up.
Seriously? CFL teams are comprised of lots of college stars, including stars at these top college programs. Chris Leak couldn't hang in the CFL, and he was a National Champion in College. Freaking Heisman winner Eric Couch did not last even ONE season in the CFL. Don't kid yourself any CFL team would slaughter a college team, playing any rules. A college all-star team (all D1 colleges combined) is a different story, lots of talent would be on there, considering there's 111 or whatever teams.

There is plenty of quality NFL QB's that would not last in the CFL. You need to have a strong arm QB, size is less important, you HAVE to be at least a little mobile, etc. And players that play 2-4 years in the NFL almost always flop at the CFL level, they are too ingrained into the NFL mindset. There is a reason the CFL almost exclusively targets college players and NFL rejects (well the good teams), since they are more open to change, and are more suited to the CFL game. Guys like former 3rd overall pick Akili Smith lasted 4 years and 17 starts in the NFL, then couldn't even survive ONE season as the backup in CGY, released mid-season. Guys like Pacman Jones who wanted to come to the CFL could not even get a CONTRACT, then got back into the NFL.

The CFL-AHL comparaison is very poor. The AHL is development league where young guys go to develop. The CFL is a competitive league trying to get the best team's possible every year. A much much better comparaison is CFL-KHL. They play different rules, they are looking for smaller, more athletic type players, but obviously the best players are in the better/pay better league. I really really think that the talent level, style, import rules, etc make it a the perfect example. It's a "minor league" but it's not exactly "minor league".

Nothing wrong with enjoying both leagues. What I don't get is why canadian fans of the NFL are constantly so threatened by the CFL that they have to make fun/put down the CFL at every opportunity. Why does it matter? I enjoy the CFL game much more, but I like the NFL as well. I recognize that the best players are in NFL, but CFL has lots of talented athletes and is a more fun game to watch, IMO. You like the NFL more, go ahead enjoy it, why go out of your way to try to make me feel bad, it won't bother me, it's you that have the obsession with trying to put down CFL, why do you care?

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07-11-2012, 08:30 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Seriously? CFL teams are comprised of lots of college stars, including stars at these top college programs. Chris Leak couldn't hang in the CFL, and he was a National Champion in College. Freaking Heisman winner Eric Couch did not last even ONE season in the CFL. Don't kid yourself any CFL team would slaughter a college team, playing any rules. A college all-star team (all D1 colleges combined) is a different story, lots of talent would be on there, considering there's 111 or whatever teams.

There is plenty of quality NFL QB's that would not last in the CFL. You need to have a strong arm QB, size is less important, you HAVE to be at least a little mobile, etc. And players that play 2-4 years in the NFL almost always flop at the CFL level, they are too ingrained into the NFL mindset. There is a reason the CFL almost exclusively targets college players and NFL rejects (well the good teams), since they are more open to change, and are more suited to the CFL game. Guys like former 3rd overall pick Akili Smith lasted 4 years and 17 starts in the NFL, then couldn't even survive ONE season as the backup in CGY, released mid-season. Guys like Pacman Jones who wanted to come to the CFL could not even get a CONTRACT, then got back into the NFL.

The CFL-AHL comparaison is very poor. The AHL is development league where young guys go to develop. The CFL is a competitive league trying to get the best team's possible every year. A much much better comparaison is CFL-KHL. They play different rules, they are looking for smaller, more athletic type players, but obviously the best players are in the better/pay better league. I really really think that the talent level, style, import rules, etc make it a the perfect example. It's a "minor league" but it's not exactly "minor league".

Nothing wrong with enjoying both leagues. What I don't get is why canadian fans of the NFL are constantly so threatened by the CFL that they have to make fun/put down the CFL at every opportunity. Why does it matter? I enjoy the CFL game much more, but I like the NFL as well. I recognize that the best players are in NFL, but CFL has lots of talented athletes and is a more fun game to watch, IMO. You like the NFL more, go ahead enjoy it, why go out of your way to try to make me feel bad, it won't bother me, it's you that have the obsession with trying to put down CFL, why do you care?
HMMMM sounds to me like you are threatened by the NFL as a CFL fan

That being said...relax H.C. no reason to get your drawers in a knot. I think it is a very valid discussion and everyone is entitled to their opinion regardless of how assinine some opinons may seem.....We will never see this situation happen but more then half the stuff disscussed on HF Boards is fantasy talk

I do agree with you that the KHL would be a much better comparison then the AHL and also agree with you that a all star CFL team comprised of mostly Rider players ( ) could beat a Big 12.

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07-11-2012, 09:21 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
Possibly, but a lot of those same things were said about Cleo Lemon, and look how that turned out.
Nobody said those things about Lemon, he was never a legit NFL starter or even a high draft pick.

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07-11-2012, 11:29 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Seriously? CFL teams are comprised of lots of college stars, including stars at these top college programs. Chris Leak couldn't hang in the CFL, and he was a National Champion in College. Freaking Heisman winner Eric Couch did not last even ONE season in the CFL. Don't kid yourself any CFL team would slaughter a college team, playing any rules. A college all-star team (all D1 colleges combined) is a different story, lots of talent would be on there, considering there's 111 or whatever teams.

There is plenty of quality NFL QB's that would not last in the CFL. You need to have a strong arm QB, size is less important, you HAVE to be at least a little mobile, etc. And players that play 2-4 years in the NFL almost always flop at the CFL level, they are too ingrained into the NFL mindset. There is a reason the CFL almost exclusively targets college players and NFL rejects (well the good teams), since they are more open to change, and are more suited to the CFL game. Guys like former 3rd overall pick Akili Smith lasted 4 years and 17 starts in the NFL, then couldn't even survive ONE season as the backup in CGY, released mid-season. Guys like Pacman Jones who wanted to come to the CFL could not even get a CONTRACT, then got back into the NFL.

The CFL-AHL comparaison is very poor. The AHL is development league where young guys go to develop. The CFL is a competitive league trying to get the best team's possible every year. A much much better comparaison is CFL-KHL. They play different rules, they are looking for smaller, more athletic type players, but obviously the best players are in the better/pay better league. I really really think that the talent level, style, import rules, etc make it a the perfect example. It's a "minor league" but it's not exactly "minor league".

Nothing wrong with enjoying both leagues. What I don't get is why canadian fans of the NFL are constantly so threatened by the CFL that they have to make fun/put down the CFL at every opportunity. Why does it matter? I enjoy the CFL game much more, but I like the NFL as well. I recognize that the best players are in NFL, but CFL has lots of talented athletes and is a more fun game to watch, IMO. You like the NFL more, go ahead enjoy it, why go out of your way to try to make me feel bad, it won't bother me, it's you that have the obsession with trying to put down CFL, why do you care?
What? I hope this rant wasn't directed at me. I wasn't trying to belittle the CFL, or "make you feel bad", I was trying to start a debate

I am an Argo fan, I was just posing a question, because I was curious as to how a SEC/Big 12 all star team would stack up against a CFL team. The KHL comparison seems more apt than an AHL comparison as you pointed out.

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07-11-2012, 04:59 PM
  #47
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Nobody said those things about Lemon, he was never a legit NFL starter or even a high draft pick.
Lemon did start, and has a lot of skills that one would think translate well to the Canadian game. But it's not always that simple. He's in that same mold as other guys who were suggested, but perhaps on a lesser scale to a guy like Tavaris Jackson.

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07-11-2012, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
Lemon did start, and has a lot of skills that one would think translate well to the Canadian game. But it's not always that simple. He's in that same mold as other guys who were suggested, but perhaps on a lesser scale to a guy like Tavaris Jackson.
You are using Cleo Lemon as an example of a NFL player who failed in the CFL? An undrafted free agent who appeared in only 4 NFL seasons?

Lemon never once entered a season as a starter. Rarely even as a back-up. Only reason he started in the NFL (... and went 1-7) was because he was literally the worst team in the NFL and the three QBs the tried ahead of him got injured.

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07-11-2012, 05:34 PM
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Cleo Lemon ultimately failed not because he was a bad NFL player who then couldn't hack it in the CFL, it was because he was a bad quarterback, and if you're a bad quarterback, it doesn't really matter. If you can't read coverages or make throws, you're unlikely to succeed at the position long-term regardless of the league. That's I think where the people who don't think Brady Quinn or Matt Leinart wouldn't make it in the CFL could be right right, they were babied in college, but professional football is different.

Tyler Palko was a backup (backup) the week of the Grey Cup and asked for his release so he could back up the Steelers (just in case Dennis Dixon got hurt) in case he was in the right place at the right time. Eventually he was in the right place at the right time with the failfest that was the Kansas City Chiefs, but it showed just what some professionals thought of the CFL that they'd be willing to walk out the week of the championship game to hold someone else's clipboard.

I certainly respect the CFL's entertainment value, I'm likely the only American who will watch it on a semi-regular basis. It is generally suited for more athletes than real players, and every now and they they get a real player to come out and go to the NFL. There's a lot more Casey Printers' and Ricky Ray's than Jeff Garcia's though.

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07-11-2012, 05:35 PM
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You are using Cleo Lemon as an example of a NFL player who failed in the CFL? An undrafted free agent who appeared in only 4 NFL seasons?

Lemon never once entered a season as a starter. Rarely even as a back-up. Only reason he started in the NFL (... and went 1-7) was because he was literally the worst team in the NFL and the three QBs the tried ahead of him got injured.
No I am not. One poster listed off a few mobile back-ups who he figured would dominate, and I gave an example of someone similar who busted hard in the CFL.

Definitely a lot of revisionist history there as well. Lemon was always the back-up in Miami the season he started, and while that doesn't mean much, saying he was a backup because the three QBs ahead of him all went down is just a boldfaced lie.

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