HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > St. Louis Blues
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Your 2012-2013 St. Louis Blues...part zwei

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-10-2012, 10:00 AM
  #326
rahjmahogany*
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesnatic27 View Post
Although Ryan is a good player, we don't need him, I don't think I'm the only one here who thinks the forwards we have right now are fine and we really don't need a winger like Ryan, and if we have to pay that much to get him, I really would not want to do it. It's probably just me, but I get tired of the Ryan trade talks, I know it's summer and there's not much to do now, but still, to me they get rather bo on another note, sometimes it's the best idea not to go out and have a shopping spree on free agents, I think the Blues are doing the right thing by not going crazy with money and signing depth players
You don't win Stanley cups with "fine" players. And while our forwards all have promising futures, the goal for each team every year is the Stanley cup. And do you honestly believe the blues couldn't use a sizeable goal scorer? And as far as going on free agent shopping sprees, you get what you pay for and our lack of Stanley cups shows how willing our past owners have been to winning. I'm not asking for a spree. But at some point we need an owner that realizes you are going to have to pay for a difference maker. We have drafted the foundation for our cup now we need that one or two established players (which are aquired via trade or free agency) that put us up with the elite cup contending teams.

rahjmahogany* is offline  
Old
07-10-2012, 10:06 AM
  #327
2 Minute Minor
Hi Keeba!
 
2 Minute Minor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Temple, Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 9,282
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Inglorious One View Post
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hocke...a4bcf6878.html

There is the link to the story I was referring to for those interested.
Huh, that's a little out of left field. Not sure I see why we would trade for him, unless the asking price is pretty low. Morrow doesn't exactly address a hole.

2 Minute Minor is offline  
Old
07-10-2012, 10:14 AM
  #328
Dolph Ziggler
#TeamZiggler Captain
 
Dolph Ziggler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 11,594
vCash: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
Huh, that's a little out of left field. Not sure I see why we would trade for him, unless the asking price is pretty low. Morrow doesn't exactly address a hole.
Same hole Doan would fill. If you move Steen to center, this fills the final hole on the left side assuming they want Schwartz to get top line minutes in Peoria.

The line of Morrow-Backes-Oshie would be a lot of fun to watch.

Dolph Ziggler is offline  
Old
07-10-2012, 10:20 AM
  #329
MattyMo35
Schwartz Be With You
 
MattyMo35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 9,428
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahjmahogany View Post
Halak is a good goalie but we over paid for him. Coco will have a better year BC he had a bad year in a year in which the stl blues were number one in defense. Everyone is panicking over our d which tied the modern day record I believe for fewest goals allowed how exactly do we find ourselves saying we need a defenseman? The only guys that aren't returning are our weakest dmen. That's why coco needs to be signed to a cheaper one year deal to play enough to ease Cole into his first full year.
I think we're going to have to agree to disagree. I personally don't feel that Lars Eller and Ian Schultz was an overpayment for a solid number 1 starter, something the Blues hadn't had in almost a decade. It was a glaring need, and with a very young team at the time, moving our top prospect wasn't as big of a deal. It's not like he's lighting the world on fire in Montreal, 45 points in 156 games. He will surely improve, and I was sad to see him go, but moving a potential number 2 center for a solid number 1 goaltender is not overpayment. You have to give something of value to get something of value. Also, I really don't understand your reasoning behind why Colaiacovo will be any better than he was last year. He will have a better year because he had a bad year last year. I just don't understand how that makes sense. Are you saying that he will have a better year because he couldn't possibly have a worse year? Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

MattyMo35 is offline  
Old
07-10-2012, 10:34 AM
  #330
rahjmahogany*
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyMo35 View Post
I think we're going to have to agree to disagree. I personally don't feel that Lars Eller and Ian Schultz was an overpayment for a solid number 1 starter, something the Blues hadn't had in almost a decade. It was a glaring need, and with a very young team at the time, moving our top prospect wasn't as big of a deal. It's not like he's lighting the world on fire in Montreal, 45 points in 156 games. He will surely improve, and I was sad to see him go, but moving a potential number 2 center for a solid number 1 goaltender is not overpayment. You have to give something of value to get something of value. Also, I really don't understand your reasoning behind why Colaiacovo will be any better than he was last year. He will have a better year because he had a bad year last year. I just don't understand how that makes sense. Are you saying that he will have a better year because he couldn't possibly have a worse year? Not exactly a ringing endorsement.
There was also a second round pick involved I believe. And halak was never a number one my fairweather friend. He was prices back up then got hot in the playoffs. And if memory serves me, he has just been okay. Not a "solid" starter. I think pekka rinne, henrik lundqhist, and jonathon quick would be my example of a solid starter. Not someone who starts fifty or less games. And I didn't say he would have a good year simply BC he had a bad one. That is silly. He had a bad year when our team was the best defensive team. Read critically doood. And as far as anyone saying anybody is going to have a good year, its all speculation. I bet you would like to think tarasenko will step in and have an amazing year? What is that based on? Hype and statistics from the "second best" league. Out of your element dooder.

rahjmahogany* is offline  
Old
07-10-2012, 10:47 AM
  #331
h22prelude93
Registered User
 
h22prelude93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: St.Louis, Mo
Country: United States
Posts: 1,408
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
Huh, that's a little out of left field. Not sure I see why we would trade for him, unless the asking price is pretty low. Morrow doesn't exactly address a hole.
Smells awfully like a writing on the wall type move to me. Sounds like someone in that top 9 is definitely on their way out...my guess would be the two obvious choices of D'Agostini or Stewart, but it really could be anyone. Why not address a hole before it becomes a hole. Makes sense. The way JR is talking I expect a deal to be announced VERY soon.

h22prelude93 is offline  
Old
07-10-2012, 10:49 AM
  #332
MattyMo35
Schwartz Be With You
 
MattyMo35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 9,428
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahjmahogany View Post
Halak is a good goalie but we over paid for him. Coco will have a better year BC he had a bad year in a year in which the stl blues were number one in defense. Everyone is panicking over our d which tied the modern day record I believe for fewest goals allowed how exactly do we find ourselves saying we need a defenseman? The only guys that aren't returning are our weakest dmen. That's why coco needs to be signed to a cheaper one year deal to play enough to ease Cole into his first full year.
This clearly says he will have a better year because he had a bad year. How am I supposed to conclude anything else? Quick, Rinne, and Lundqvist are legit Vezina quality goalies. I never claimed Jaro was a Vezina quality goalie, just that he is a solid number 1, which he is. .926 save percentage and 1.97 goals against average are great. Just because he doesn't start every game, doesn't mean he's not a number one, or that he's not capable of starting every game. Also, I would like to think that Tarasenko will have a decent season next year, but for reasons more substantial than "because I think so". He has all the skills in the world and has shown them at every level of competition. I'm not saying he's going to score 50 goals next year, or ever, but I fully expect him to be a solid contributor to the offense because he has the skill set. Colaiacovo has never proven to be a solid Dman in the NHL, but he probably will have a better year next year "BC he had a bad year". That's one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever seen.

MattyMo35 is offline  
Old
07-10-2012, 10:55 AM
  #333
Dolph Ziggler
#TeamZiggler Captain
 
Dolph Ziggler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 11,594
vCash: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahjmahogany View Post
There was also a second round pick involved I believe. And halak was never a number one my fairweather friend. He was prices back up then got hot in the playoffs. And if memory serves me, he has just been okay. Not a "solid" starter. I think pekka rinne, henrik lundqhist, and jonathon quick would be my example of a solid starter. Not someone who starts fifty or less games. And I didn't say he would have a good year simply BC he had a bad one. That is silly. He had a bad year when our team was the best defensive team. Read critically doood. And as far as anyone saying anybody is going to have a good year, its all speculation. I bet you would like to think tarasenko will step in and have an amazing year? What is that based on? Hype and statistics from the "second best" league. Out of your element dooder.

No second round pick was involved. And if this past season was just okay, I would love to know what a good season is. And what does it say about a player when even when he has a terrible season and the team puts up the best defensive season in the NHL?

It says he's not that important and easily replaceable. Time to move on.

Dolph Ziggler is offline  
Old
07-10-2012, 10:59 AM
  #334
SirPaste
Use The Schwartz!
 
SirPaste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: STL
Posts: 9,171
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahjmahogany View Post
There was also a second round pick involved I believe. And halak was never a number one my fairweather friend. He was prices back up then got hot in the playoffs. And if memory serves me, he has just been okay. Not a "solid" starter. I think pekka rinne, henrik lundqhist, and jonathon quick would be my example of a solid starter. Not someone who starts fifty or less games. And I didn't say he would have a good year simply BC he had a bad one. That is silly. He had a bad year when our team was the best defensive team. Read critically doood. And as far as anyone saying anybody is going to have a good year, its all speculation. I bet you would like to think tarasenko will step in and have an amazing year? What is that based on? Hype and statistics from the "second best" league. Out of your element dooder.
Something tells me this guy wont be around long.

SirPaste is offline  
Old
07-10-2012, 11:01 AM
  #335
rahjmahogany*
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyMo35 View Post
This clearly says he will have a better year because he had a bad year. How am I supposed to conclude anything else? Quick, Rinne, and Lundqvist are legit Vezina quality goalies. I never claimed Jaro was a Vezina quality goalie, just that he is a solid number 1, which he is. .926 save percentage and 1.97 goals against average are great. Just because he doesn't start every game, doesn't mean he's not a number one, or that he's not capable of starting every game. Also, I would like to think that Tarasenko will have a decent season next year, but for reasons more substantial than "because I think so". He has all the skills in the world and has shown them at every level of competition. I'm not saying he's going to score 50 goals next year, or ever, but I fully expect him to be a solid contributor to the offense because he has the skill set. Colaiacovo has never proven to be a solid Dman in the NHL, but he probably will have a better year next year "BC he had a bad year". That's one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever seen.
You are weird. Solid goalies are not vezina quality goaltenders in your book? And what you should be able to get is Coliacovo will have a good year because he CAN make a difference when healthy and the fact that coliacavo was transparent last year and our defense was still number one can only mean one thing for him. If he actually plays he will make a difference. Would you like me to email a video of me explaining this more clearly? I am a huge halak fan and he is a gooood goaltender but we overpaid and I will not back down from that statement until he wins the vezina or the Stanley cup. Or at least is seriously considered for the vezina.

rahjmahogany* is offline  
Old
07-10-2012, 11:01 AM
  #336
PocketNines
Only a 2 year window
 
PocketNines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Crested Butte, CO
Posts: 9,298
vCash: 500
Dallas beat writer:

Quote:
@MikeHeika I'm hearing no trade talks for Brenden Morrow to St louis. Nothing really cooking at all right now. #Stars #STLBlues

PocketNines is offline  
Old
07-10-2012, 11:02 AM
  #337
STL fan in IA
Registered User
 
STL fan in IA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,170
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahjmahogany View Post
There was also a second round pick involved I believe. And halak was never a number one my fairweather friend. He was prices back up then got hot in the playoffs. And if memory serves me, he has just been okay. Not a "solid" starter. I think pekka rinne, henrik lundqhist, and jonathon quick would be my example of a solid starter. Not someone who starts fifty or less games. And I didn't say he would have a good year simply BC he had a bad one. That is silly. He had a bad year when our team was the best defensive team. Read critically doood. And as far as anyone saying anybody is going to have a good year, its all speculation. I bet you would like to think tarasenko will step in and have an amazing year? What is that based on? Hype and statistics from the "second best" league. Out of your element dooder.
No, the deal was Halak for Eller and Schultz. No additional 2nd rounder.

Also, Lundqvist, Quick and Rinnie are all-star, possibly even MVP, type goalies. Those 3 are arguably the top 3 goalies in the world rigt now. If that's the category you have to be in to be "solid" that's some tough criteria.

Also, count me as another who finds your reasoning that Cola would have a better season this season than last to be puzzling at best.

STL fan in IA is offline  
Old
07-10-2012, 11:03 AM
  #338
2 Minute Minor
Hi Keeba!
 
2 Minute Minor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Temple, Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 9,282
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahjmahogany View Post
There was also a second round pick involved I believe. And halak was never a number one my fairweather friend. He was prices back up then got hot in the playoffs. And if memory serves me, he has just been okay. Not a "solid" starter. I think pekka rinne, henrik lundqhist, and jonathon quick would be my example of a solid starter. Not someone who starts fifty or less games. And I didn't say he would have a good year simply BC he had a bad one. That is silly. He had a bad year when our team was the best defensive team. Read critically doood. And as far as anyone saying anybody is going to have a good year, its all speculation. I bet you would like to think tarasenko will step in and have an amazing year? What is that based on? Hype and statistics from the "second best" league. Out of your element dooder.
You recall that Halak was in the top five for save percentage most of the season after the first month, right? He had an excellent year, and in my opinion was set up well for a great post-season run before he was injured. Hopefully he'll get a chance to prove it this coming season.

2 Minute Minor is offline  
Old
07-10-2012, 11:03 AM
  #339
BlueSinceBirth
Registered User
 
BlueSinceBirth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 593
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahjmahogany View Post
There was also a second round pick involved I believe. And halak was never a number one my fairweather friend. He was prices back up then got hot in the playoffs. And if memory serves me, he has just been okay. Not a "solid" starter. I think pekka rinne, henrik lundqhist, and jonathon quick would be my example of a solid starter. Not someone who starts fifty or less games. And I didn't say he would have a good year simply BC he had a bad one. That is silly. He had a bad year when our team was the best defensive team. Read critically doood. And as far as anyone saying anybody is going to have a good year, its all speculation. I bet you would like to think tarasenko will step in and have an amazing year? What is that based on? Hype and statistics from the "second best" league. Out of your element dooder.
Go ask Habs fans if they think we overpaid for Halak. Rinne, Lundqvist, and Quick are probably the top 3 goalies in the league considering Lundqvist was even nominated for the Hart so I think they are a little bit better then solid. I also don't think anyone expects Tarasenko to have an amazing year but he is considered one of the top three or so prospects not in the NHL and will improve the team.

BlueSinceBirth is offline  
Old
07-10-2012, 11:04 AM
  #340
2 Minute Minor
Hi Keeba!
 
2 Minute Minor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Temple, Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 9,282
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by h22prelude93 View Post
Smells awfully like a writing on the wall type move to me. Sounds like someone in that top 9 is definitely on their way out...my guess would be the two obvious choices of D'Agostini or Stewart, but it really could be anyone. Why not address a hole before it becomes a hole. Makes sense. The way JR is talking I expect a deal to be announced VERY soon.
Yes or maybe moving Steen to center (or having the flexibility to do so). But its hard to imagine Armstrong parting with assets unless its part of a move to fill the defensive need.

2 Minute Minor is offline  
Old
07-10-2012, 11:06 AM
  #341
PocketNines
Only a 2 year window
 
PocketNines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Crested Butte, CO
Posts: 9,298
vCash: 500
We didn't seriously overpay for Halak. We traded Lars Eller, a third line center, and an AHL version of Crombeen. When you consider what other goaltending options were available on the market and the Blues limping along with Chris Mason and Ty Conklin was the status quo, it was a solid deal.

PocketNines is offline  
Old
07-10-2012, 11:16 AM
  #342
MattyMo35
Schwartz Be With You
 
MattyMo35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 9,428
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahjmahogany View Post
You are weird. Solid goalies are not vezina quality goaltenders in your book? And what you should be able to get is Coliacovo will have a good year because he CAN make a difference when healthy and the fact that coliacavo was transparent last year and our defense was still number one can only mean one thing for him. If he actually plays he will make a difference. Would you like me to email a video of me explaining this more clearly? I am a huge halak fan and he is a gooood goaltender but we overpaid and I will not back down from that statement until he wins the vezina or the Stanley cup. Or at least is seriously considered for the vezina.
Solid goalies are solid goalies. Jaro Halak, Niemi, Varlamov, Howard etc. Goalies that are legit number 1s, but probably will not win a Vezina. Vezina goalies are Quick, Lundqvist, Rinne etc. They are the elite. The best in the world. The fact that Colaiacovo was terrible last year and the Blues were number one in D means that he is easily replaceable. The Blues do not need him if they can have a great year as a whole, when he was awful. If you only had to trade a prospect and a career AHLer for someone that will contend for the Vezina, I'd be all over it. Ask somebody on the Rangers board if they would consider trading Lundvist for Jaden Schwartz and Ryan Tesink. Schwartz is actually probably a better prospect than Eller, but we'll let that slide. Go over there and see their reaction. Please.

MattyMo35 is offline  
Old
07-10-2012, 11:22 AM
  #343
PocketNines
Only a 2 year window
 
PocketNines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Crested Butte, CO
Posts: 9,298
vCash: 500
He doesn't have to be a Vezina candidate in order for a trade for a 3d line center to have been a solid deal.

As for the defensive issues, the deal is that until Shattenkirk rounds out his game, the Blues have Pietrangelo and a bunch of second/third pairing defensemen. The Blues set a record last year for goals allowed for a combination of three reasons. First, for all his praise, Pietrangelo still had an underappreciated year. He was that special defensively. Second, the goalies really pushed each other and were stellar. Elliott set modern NHL records for save percentage and GAA. The Blues were strong defensively but the goalies made tons of timely clutch saves, especially early in games. Third, the Blues' forwards played a defensively responsible game to limit opponents' scoring chances. It all worked together. Going into next season we can count on the first and third of these, and can be optimistic about the goaltending situation if they can both stay healthy.

However, the Blues' weakest link last year was one Carlo Colaiacovo. Aside from Chris Stewart up front, he was the one player who you couldn't really count on to do his job, whether he was busy being gimped up and shortening the defensive bench during a game, or making a wobbly play resulting in a scoring chance against. He needs to be upgraded, just very simply. I have lots of confidence in Cole to be able to take up the slack, and I also have confidence in Doug Armstrong to closely monitor the situation and make the right deal during the season if this doesn't work out.

PocketNines is offline  
Old
07-10-2012, 11:27 AM
  #344
h22prelude93
Registered User
 
h22prelude93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: St.Louis, Mo
Country: United States
Posts: 1,408
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
Yes or maybe moving Steen to center (or having the flexibility to do so). But its hard to imagine Armstrong parting with assets unless its part of a move to fill the defensive need.
I'm guessing a trade for a guy like Morrow would most likely include mid-range picks/prospects. Which when you think about it would still ultimately be going toward filling that defensive need. This also could be a sign that the Blues are done negotiating with Langenbrunner.

h22prelude93 is offline  
Old
07-10-2012, 11:29 AM
  #345
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 23,881
vCash: 130
I'm just glad management isn't that high on D'Agostini. And that they also think that we need to add size.

I had a feeling that Armstrong was going to do something biggish. Should be interesting to see how everything plays out.

bleedblue1223 is offline  
Old
07-10-2012, 11:29 AM
  #346
2 Minute Minor
Hi Keeba!
 
2 Minute Minor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Temple, Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 9,282
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by h22prelude93 View Post
I'm guessing a trade for a guy like Morrow would most likely include mid-range picks/prospects. Which when you think about it would still ultimately be going toward filling that defensive need. This also could be a sign that the Blues are done negotiating with Langenbrunner.
Besides Morrow as the target, it seems pretty bizarre to leak info about a potential trade target before the trade is done....at least in this case it comes off as pretty odd. And JR isn't a guy that usually takes the bait for stuff, so I kind of have to take it seriously.

2 Minute Minor is offline  
Old
07-10-2012, 11:38 AM
  #347
Dolph Ziggler
#TeamZiggler Captain
 
Dolph Ziggler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 11,594
vCash: 380
Believe the saying is robbing Peter to pay Paul, but whatever.

Anyway yeah JR saying it is the only reason I take it seriously. He doesn't speculate too often on stuff like this.

Dolph Ziggler is offline  
Old
07-10-2012, 11:38 AM
  #348
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 23,881
vCash: 130
Pietrangelo-Polak
Jackman-Shattenkirk
Russell-Cole

And when Cole proves he can handle the minutes, we can do this:

Cole-Pietrangelo
Jackman-Shattenkirk
Russell-Polak

We have Woywitka and Fairchild who can both play limited minutes in case of injuries on the bottom pairing. We don't need to add anyone unless they are an upgrade. Colaiacovo is not an upgrade.

bleedblue1223 is offline  
Old
07-10-2012, 11:40 AM
  #349
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 23,881
vCash: 130
Looking more and more like Steen will be the 3rd line center.

bleedblue1223 is offline  
Old
07-10-2012, 11:43 AM
  #350
Dolph Ziggler
#TeamZiggler Captain
 
Dolph Ziggler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 11,594
vCash: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Looking more and more like Steen will be the 3rd line center.
Yep. I think his offensive production will suffer a little, but he's no longer one of the top six or seven offensive threats and what he'll be able to bring defensively and what he'll be able to do leadership was while playing on a line with Tarasenko will be invaluable.

Dolph Ziggler is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:31 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.