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07-10-2012, 11:42 AM
  #276
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Gary Thorne calls him Useless, but that's just because he might be the world's foremost butcher of foreign names. Probably because he's an idiot.

I wonder what's happening with KH? No news yet this summer.
I think Thorne calls him useless because he is, in fact, useless.

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07-10-2012, 11:48 AM
  #277
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Don't really like this move, would have preferred Mitchell.

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07-10-2012, 11:50 AM
  #278
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[QUOTE=Chief;52377393]
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post

So we're signing Halpern and Asham to score goals???

If you want to tell me the Rangers didn't want to spend the extra cap space that it would have taken to sign Prust, Feds and Mitchell, I can understand that (might not agree with it, but I get it), but you get what you pay for...and the Rangers have gotten less versatile and older.

Mitchell, Prust and Feds are 27, 28 and 33, respectively. Pyatt, Asham and Halpern are 32, 34 and 36.

Asham and Halpern are limited players. Asham is a 34 year old thug who is breaking down physically. Halpern is a bordeline NHL regular at this point who brings little to the table except a better faceoff percentage than Mitchell (almost 7% points better last season...FYI - Mitchell's FO% was tops on the Rangers in the playoffs, excluding Feds who went 8-1). Pyatt's the only one I would consider a regular contributor of the three and for a guy his size, he doesn't play physical enough a lot of the time.

Prust got the 9th most icetime among the Ranger forwards last year. He's not just a 5 minute per game goon. Fedotenko had the ability to slide up the depth chart when Torts wanted a spark. Mitchell brought more to the table than Halpern.

The Rangers are re-shaping their team. The final product might wind up just as effective as last year's version but it's not because these three recent additions are going to play a major role.
See, I don't see that as a good thing. I think that's a big problem for this Rangers team. A guy like Prust, who I like alot, should not be getting top 9 minutes for forwards. Neither should Boyle, but that's another matter.

Prust is limited as a player and as such should be limited to a certain role. 4th line grinder with some PK.

I would take 2 minutes off his ES run, Boyle as well, and disperse that amongst Dubi, AA and Hagelin. Guys that can actually both create and finish alot more than Prust and Boyle, last season notwithstanding

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07-10-2012, 11:50 AM
  #279
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
What about him?
Sign him to a 2 year deal w/incentives because he can score 20 goals when healthy.

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07-10-2012, 11:51 AM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Hightide85 View Post
As things are right now, there would be no room for any rookie F to make the team, at all.

A trade is coming....
Eh, the team has shown that they have no problem bringing in a cheap veteran as insurance, and banishing them to the AHL if they're unneeded. Think Todd White or Pat Rissmiller.

A trade may be coming, but not because of this. This move is all about playing it safe and having depth in the event no further moves are made and none of the kids are ready.

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07-10-2012, 12:18 PM
  #281
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[QUOTE=pld459666;52380729]
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Originally Posted by Chief View Post

(Not sure why the above is quoting me instead of pld459666)

See, I don't see that as a good thing. I think that's a big problem for this Rangers team. A guy like Prust, who I like alot, should not be getting top 9 minutes for forwards. Neither should Boyle, but that's another matter.

Prust is limited as a player and as such should be limited to a certain role. 4th line grinder with some PK.

I would take 2 minutes off his ES run, Boyle as well, and disperse that amongst Dubi, AA and Hagelin. Guys that can actually both create and finish alot more than Prust and Boyle, last season notwithstanding
I don't disagree with everything you're saying. There's many different ways to put together a roster. My point was just that I think the Rangers have acquired players lately that bring less to the table than the players they let walk. I'd rather not have my top six forwards logging big PK minutes. Rather have them fresh for ES and PP.

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07-10-2012, 12:33 PM
  #282
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[QUOTE=Chief;52382277]
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post

I don't disagree with everything you're saying. There's many different ways to put together a roster. My point was just that I think the Rangers have acquired players lately that bring less to the table than the players they let walk. I'd rather not have my top six forwards logging big PK minutes. Rather have them fresh for ES and PP.
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07-10-2012, 12:34 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Chief View Post

I don't disagree with everything you're saying. There's many different ways to put together a roster. My point was just that I think the Rangers have acquired players lately that bring less to the table than the players they let walk. I'd rather not have my top six forwards logging big PK minutes. Rather have them fresh for ES and PP.
Pyatt is a clear upgrade over Fedetenko. Prust maybe a better overall forward than Asham, but not by much. Asham's a better fighter, hitter, agitator, and puts up the same #s offensively. Halpern is a better 4C than Mitchell and has more NHL experience for lower $$.

Tortorella said clearly depth was an issue on the bottom six. We've all see in the POs. The Rangers address the depth issue and people complain. Even when the additions are improvements.

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07-10-2012, 12:36 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
When I refer to Boyle as soft it's with the mindset that for a guy his size, he should not be the guy picking himself up off the ice more often than the guy he's battling with along the boards. I do not see the same player you are seeing in terms of Boyle using his size to his advantage. Not nearly as much as he should. Not so worried about the fighting part as I have come to accept that that is not part of his game and we do have guys for that stuff, but I'm talking about in front of the net and wearing down opposing defenceman. He doesn't do that and for a guy his size, I think that's just down right sad.

As for Arty, he's as good as Boyle defensively. Maybe a shade behind but the difference is marginal at best. Additionally in this day and age, there are no shut-down centers in the mold of your user name. With scoring needed throughout the line up, you sacrifice a little on defence for an offensive upgrade which AA is. A slight downgrade on D and a significant upgrade on Offence.

Especially when you start adding more talent to the top 6, wingers that were 2nd liners last year now slide back to the 3rd line. You want a centerman in that spot that can better take advantage of those players. Boyle cannot do that.

Assume for a second we do nothing. I'd prefer to have AA play center to either Hagelin OR Dubinsky over Boyle every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Boyle has his place on this Rangers team. That place is either a winger for the 3rd line (I have my opinions on that) or as the teams 4th line center and since we just signed Halpern for that role, I'm not sure that I see a need for Boyle other than a 3rd line RW.

And for the record, AA has played his best hockey with the Rangers centering Dubinsky and Callahan, but that was 2 seasons ago and before Torts last season shifted him to LW out of necessity.
PLD I have to disagree
Boyle is better on faceoffs, more physical, better shot blocker, much better down low (in front of our net), and a smarter defensive player. Boyle is the first player to drop back when a defenseman pinches... I have seen Anisimov struggle with this his entire Ranger tenure and to me that is the true mark of a player playing out of position. A true center knows to be aware of his linemates, especially the defenseman to cover if they pinch.

Arty is much better offensively, a better stickhandler, and a smoother skater. He is a top 6 player IMO, but not a third line center. He should not be forced to play against a Crosby, Giroux, Stamkos, etc or he will provide zero offense and be eaten alive defensively.

In reality if we were 100% healthy to start next year this is what I would love to see
Kreider-Richards-Gaborik
Hagelin-Stepan-Callahan
Dubinsky-Boyle-Anisimov
Pyatt-Halpern-Asham

If we can sign Doan that negates trading for Nash unless the deal is too good to pass up. By trading Dubi and Anisimov we trade the potential for us to have a productive offensive and defensive third line, the Gaborik injury really hampers this team.

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07-10-2012, 12:47 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Eh, the team has shown that they have no problem bringing in a cheap veteran as insurance, and banishing them to the AHL if they're unneeded. Think Todd White or Pat Rissmiller.

A trade may be coming, but not because of this. This move is all about playing it safe and having depth in the event no further moves are made and none of the kids are ready.
Ditto.

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07-10-2012, 12:52 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
See, I don't see that as a good thing. I think that's a big problem for this Rangers team. A guy like Prust, who I like alot, should not be getting top 9 minutes for forwards. Neither should Boyle, but that's another matter.

Prust is limited as a player and as such should be limited to a certain role. 4th line grinder with some PK.

I would take 2 minutes off his ES run, Boyle as well, and disperse that amongst Dubi, AA and Hagelin. Guys that can actually both create and finish alot more than Prust and Boyle, last season notwithstanding
This I agree with. To me, aside from not overpaying, the main positive to letting Prust go is that we won't see him getting ES time down a goal or tied with 2 minutes to go. The same is true of Fedotenko. It was my biggest problem with the way Tortorella coaches this team. As long as Halpern and Asham don't become those guys, we'll be a better team.

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07-10-2012, 01:10 PM
  #287
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Good signing for the 4th line. He's a great PKer and good on faceoffs.
If they're not going to sign Konopka, then I guess Halpern will do.

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07-10-2012, 01:20 PM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
PLD I have to disagree
Boyle is better on faceoffs, more physical, better shot blocker, much better down low (in front of our net), and a smarter defensive player. Boyle is the first player to drop back when a defenseman pinches... I have seen Anisimov struggle with this his entire Ranger tenure and to me that is the true mark of a player playing out of position. A true center knows to be aware of his linemates, especially the defenseman to cover if they pinch.

Arty is much better offensively, a better stickhandler, and a smoother skater. He is a top 6 player IMO, but not a third line center. He should not be forced to play against a Crosby, Giroux, Stamkos, etc or he will provide zero offense and be eaten alive defensively.

In reality if we were 100% healthy to start next year this is what I would love to see
Kreider-Richards-Gaborik
Hagelin-Stepan-Callahan
Dubinsky-Boyle-Anisimov
Pyatt-Halpern-Asham

If we can sign Doan that negates trading for Nash unless the deal is too good to pass up. By trading Dubi and Anisimov we trade the potential for us to have a productive offensive and defensive third line, the Gaborik injury really hampers this team.
The "this line to play against that line mentality" is no longer used. To insinuate that Boyle should be matched up against Crosby and the like means you haven't paid attention to the NHL over the last 10-15 years.

Do you want favorable matchups in certain situations? Absolutely, but players are not used the way Jan Erixon was used back in the 80's. Lines are not deployed they way they were back then either.

Today it's more about the defensive pairings and less about the forwards that are out on the ice against opposing teams best players.

If the Rangers deployed their lines in the way you are insinuating, then I can see some merit to what you are saying.

I just haven't seen the Rangers do that in forever and I don't see Torts as being that kind of Head Coach.

Years ago you wanted a true checking line and if it could produce goals, great.

I think today, most teams are solid enough defensvely that you want a balanced 3rd line that can play well defensively and offensively and keep your specialists such as Boyle tucked away on the 4th line.

I don't see Boyle being able to provide that same balance on the 3rd line that Anisimov can.

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07-10-2012, 01:21 PM
  #289
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sign a bunch of players for the 4th line...see what sticks during camp.

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07-10-2012, 01:23 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Don't really like this move, would have preferred Mitchell.
Here we go again.

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07-10-2012, 01:41 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
The "this line to play against that line mentality" is no longer used. To insinuate that Boyle should be matched up against Crosby and the like means you haven't paid attention to the NHL over the last 10-15 years.

Do you want favorable matchups in certain situations? Absolutely, but players are not used the way Jan Erixon was used back in the 80's. Lines are not deployed they way they were back then either.

Today it's more about the defensive pairings and less about the forwards that are out on the ice against opposing teams best players.

If the Rangers deployed their lines in the way you are insinuating, then I can see some merit to what you are saying.

I just haven't seen the Rangers do that in forever and I don't see Torts as being that kind of Head Coach.

Years ago you wanted a true checking line and if it could produce goals, great.

I think today, most teams are solid enough defensvely that you want a balanced 3rd line that can play well defensively and offensively and keep your specialists such as Boyle tucked away on the 4th line.

I don't see Boyle being able to provide that same balance on the 3rd line that Anisimov can.
I need to pay attention... seriously thats where you are going with this? Torts MATCHES lines, usually putting Mcdonagh-Girardi against teams 1st line as a Priority, but you are kidding yourself if you don't think Boyle goes against teams top lines. There are times when he plays Richards line against teams top lines (few and far between) but to insinuate that I haven't watched hockey in 10-15 years makes me wonder if you even watch these games or just read the score online. When the season starts maybe you should pay attention to which line starts the game, half the time it is the Boyle line to go against teams top lines.

You can stop talking about Jan Erixon, just because that's my user name does not mean I am advocating Boyle cover Crosby every shift. The days of the true defensive forward are over, but teams still have 3rd line checking lines, they just happen to be able to provide offense as well. Teams try to get the advantage line wise anyway they can, usually when a team puts out its fourth line the opposing team will try and counter as quickly as possible with their first line unless they are looking to spark the team with a fight putting their own 4th line out there.

How is Boyle a specialist? He is a solid 2-way player, nothing flashy and for all the anisimov drooling on this board he has never broken 20 goals (something Boyle did), they have about the same amount of goals over their careers (Boyle played about 30 more games, never getting top 6 minutes like Anisimov) and Boyle can actually win a faceoff and kill a penalty.

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07-10-2012, 01:43 PM
  #292
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Personally, I would have liked to give this spot to someone like Ryan Bourque, but I'm ok with the signing(s).

I think Bourque deserves a shot. He almost made the team, last year. He works hard, and is very chippy. I see a TON of Callahan, in him.

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07-10-2012, 01:43 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Hightide85 View Post
As things are right now, there would be no room for any rookie F to make the team, at all.

A trade is coming....
Depth... If someones wows at camp, then they'd getvacspot, but I don't see that this year. The Miller decision looks to be CHL or AHL. Thomas didn't look near ready in his limited AHL time at the end of last season. Kreider is your rookie!

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07-10-2012, 01:54 PM
  #294
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Depth... If someones wows at camp, then they'd getvacspot, but I don't see that this year. The Miller decision looks to be CHL or AHL. Thomas didn't look near ready in his limited AHL time at the end of last season. Kreider is your rookie!
I was thinking more along the lines of Fast or Ryan Bourque.

It would appear, with the hiring of Beukeboom as an assistant, that he's there to mentor McIlrath....meaning another year of seasoning.

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07-10-2012, 02:00 PM
  #295
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Like this depth signing

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07-10-2012, 02:01 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by Hightide85 View Post
As things are right now, there would be no room for any rookie F to make the team, at all.

A trade is coming....
aside from kreider who is already penciled into the lineup, what rookies are you talking about? if miller is that good in camp we can make room for him but its not like we have a bunch of guys in the ahl last year busting for lineup spots.

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07-10-2012, 02:13 PM
  #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hightide85 View Post
Personally, I would have liked to give this spot to someone like Ryan Bourque, but I'm ok with the signing(s).

I think Bourque deserves a shot. He almost made the team, last year. He works hard, and is very chippy. I see a TON of Callahan, in him.
Lolwut? What did he do to DESERVE a shot?

I swear that some of you guys just don't watch these kids play before you comment. Bourque is closer to the ECHL than he is the NHL. In no way should he be on this team next year.

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07-10-2012, 02:16 PM
  #298
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Oh, and for what it's worth, Jeff ****ing Halpern is not going to block a kid who plays his way onto this team. So please don't even suggest something like that.

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07-10-2012, 02:22 PM
  #299
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Pyatt is a clear upgrade over Fedetenko. Prust maybe a better overall forward than Asham, but not by much. Asham's a better fighter, hitter, agitator, and puts up the same #s offensively. Halpern is a better 4C than Mitchell and has more NHL experience for lower $$.

Tortorella said clearly depth was an issue on the bottom six. We've all see in the POs. The Rangers address the depth issue and people complain. Even when the additions are improvements.
I don't have a real problem with Pyatt. He's a 3rd liner in the NHL. I don't know that he's a clear upgrade over Feds but I don't feel strongly the other way about it. In the PO's Pyatt did have the worst +/- among Phoenix forwards and Feds had the best +/- among Ranger forwards. Maybe that points to Feds' rep as a more proven PO performer. In any event, I don't think Pyatt is a bad option.

Prust is a much better player than Asham. Prust played the 9th most minutes among Ranger forwards, 3rd most PK time, and the Rangers were the top team in the East and the 5th best PK team in the East. Asham isn't a PK player (played zero minutes of PK last season) and will play less minutes all around. Asham also seems to be breaking down. He missed almost 60 games the last two seasons, while Prust played all 82 both seasons. You want to make Asham a sparingly used 4th liner, that could work, but the fact is he's not as good or reliable as Prust. He's 6 years older than Prust and it shows.

Halpern vs. Mitchell. I'm not going to make Mitchell out to be some world beater but Halpern at 36, has nothing on Mitchell except being somewhat better on faceoffs. Halpern couldn't even crack the Washington lineup in the PO's until Beagle got hurt. He played two PO games and went 10-8 on faceoffs. Mitchell was 38-33 on faceoffs in the PO's.

Halpern and Asham are a combined 15 years older than Prust and Mitchell and I think it'll show after another season and then into the PO grind. I think they're 4th line players that offer very little upside.

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07-10-2012, 02:26 PM
  #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
Pyatt is a clear upgrade over Fedetenko. Prust maybe a better overall forward than Asham, but not by much. Asham's a better fighter, hitter, agitator, and puts up the same #s offensively. Halpern is a better 4C than Mitchell and has more NHL experience for lower $$.

Tortorella said clearly depth was an issue on the bottom six. We've all see in the POs. The Rangers address the depth issue and people complain. Even when the additions are improvements.
Pretty much. Pyatt has more upside then Feds imo. Prust and Asham, again similar but Asham is better at agitating, and more of a presence like you said. Halpern I would also say is roughly a wash with but he was also 5th in the league in face-offs win % last year. We got bigger with Pyatt and Ashem, possibly more scoring with them too. We also addressed another issue, face-offs. Well that's what Halpern was brought here for. Don't foget, Ashem @ 1m, Halpern @ 700k, and Pyatt @ 1.55mil is costing us less cap space then what Freds @ 1.75 mil, Mitchell @ 1.1mil, and Prust @ 2.5mil costed. So far I would say we did ok with who we picked up vs who we lost.

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